Armor properties and Bracers of armor [Archive] - Wizards Community

Armor properties and Bracers of armor [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CaptKillern
09-18-07, 09:52 PM Hello,

The Magic Item Compendium gives rules for combining different magic items together. Like Sandals that add +2 to dex and str...

My question is Bracers of armor, they are not armor but would it be game breaking to allow armor properties to be added to Bracers of armor?

For Example: Bracers of Armor + 4 (16,000 gp) with heavy Fortification (a +5 ability) Would you allow this? If so how would you calculate cost? Would it just be the bracers cost + the (+5) ability cost? (25,000gp) for a total of 41,000 gp?

Any help appreciated.
ZiggZagg
09-18-07, 10:08 PM Allow me to give you the generic first response that is customary on these boards...*cough**cough**clears throat*

OMFG!! BROKEN!!! YOU POWERGAMING MUNCHKIN WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?!

Ok. Now, other than that, go for it:D
Patrick Draken-Korin
09-18-07, 10:17 PM Well, considering that the Arms and Equipment Guide suggests it...:rolleyes:

Bracers of armor with +X equivalent armor effects can go as high as +13 (+8 bonus, +5 equivalency), as stated on p. 130. of the AEG. More than +5 equivalency counts as epic.
deathbane
09-18-07, 10:23 PM Hello,

The Magic Item Compendium gives rules for combining different magic items together. Like Sandals that add +2 to dex and str...

My question is Bracers of armor, they are not armor but would it be game breaking to allow armor properties to be added to Bracers of armor?

For Example: Bracers of Armor + 4 (16,000 gp) with heavy Fortification (a +5 ability) Would you allow this? If so how would you calculate cost? Would it just be the bracers cost + the (+5) ability cost? (25,000gp) for a total of 41,000 gp?

Any help appreciated.

P.S. I was wrong about the bracers and special abilities
runestar
09-18-07, 10:30 PM Seems far too cheap, in the very least.
Patrick Draken-Korin
09-18-07, 10:41 PM For Example: Bracers of Armor + 4 (16,000 gp) with heavy Fortification (a +5 ability) Would you allow this? If so how would you calculate cost? Would it just be the bracers cost + the (+5) ability cost? (25,000gp) for a total of 41,000 gp?
Hmm. Missed that.:embarrass

In short, No.

+4 bracers of armor, with heavy fortification would count as +9 bracers, for 81,000 Gp.

Seriously, 41,000? You treat the pattern the same as standard armor. :rolleyes:

For an armor bonus; (armor bonus)^2 * 1,000 Gp. A +X equivalency is THE EXACT SAME THING AS A +X BONUS. That's why it's an equivalency.;)
CaptKillern
09-18-07, 10:46 PM Well the reference Patrick Draken-Korin provided. Shows that it is legal, but very cost prohibitive. According to the rules in Arms and Equipment guide, the +4 bracers and +5 ability would cost the equivalent of +9 armor. Or 81,000 gps.

Personaly I think this is too expensive as if you go by gold per character in the DMG you would need to be 12th level to have it and that would be all your gear... Where as Full Plate +1 Heavy fort adds 10 to AC + the ability and only costs 38,000 and leather armor + 2 with the ability costs 49,050.

I think I will use the following

Bracers or armor +2 counts as a +1 item so with heavy fortification it would be the equivalent of a +6 item or 36,000.

Bracers of armor +4 Counts as a +2 item so with heavy fortification it would cost the equivalent of a +7 item or 49,000

Bracers of armor +6 Counts as a +3 item so with heavy fortification it would cost the equivalent of a +8 item or 64,000

Bracers of armor +8 Counts as a +4 item so with heavy fortification it would cost the equivalent of a +9 item or 81,000

Is this too cheap still?
Nom
09-18-07, 11:07 PM Full Plate +1 Heavy fort adds 10 to AC + the ability and only costs 38,000 and leather armor + 2 with the ability costs 49,050.Full plate also has massive ACP and ASF, low Max Dex to AC, and won't protect against incorporeal touch attacks. Leather is better for ACP and Max Dex to AC, but still applies some ASF and won't work against incorporeal touch attacks.
CaptKillern
09-18-07, 11:32 PM Full plate also has massive ACP and ASF, low Max Dex to AC, and won't protect against incorporeal touch attacks. Leather is better for ACP and Max Dex to AC, but still applies some ASF and won't work against incorporeal touch attacks.

All of this is true, but do you think Bracers of armor +4 with heavy fortification is really worth 81,000gps compared to the conventional armor?

You could have 2 suits of full plate +6 for the cost of the Bracers... and still have money left over...

in fact you can have Mithral full plate + 2 heavy fortification (58,000 gp)plus a ring of protection +3 (18,000 gp) plus an amulet of natural armor +1 (2000 gp) and a large steel shield +1 (1170 gp) for 79,170 total.

total ac just from items is +17, allows +3 to dex and still costs 1830 gps less.
deathbane
09-19-07, 12:43 AM Well the reference Patrick Draken-Korin provided. Shows that it is legal, but very cost prohibitive. According to the rules in Arms and Equipment guide, the +4 bracers and +5 ability would cost the equivalent of +9 armor. Or 81,000 gps.

Personaly I think this is too expensive as if you go by gold per character in the DMG you would need to be 12th level to have it and that would be all your gear... Where as Full Plate +1 Heavy fort adds 10 to AC + the ability and only costs 38,000 and leather armor + 2 with the ability costs 49,050.

I think I will use the following

Bracers or armor +2 counts as a +1 item so with heavy fortification it would be the equivalent of a +6 item or 36,000.

Bracers of armor +4 Counts as a +2 item so with heavy fortification it would cost the equivalent of a +7 item or 49,000

Bracers of armor +6 Counts as a +3 item so with heavy fortification it would cost the equivalent of a +8 item or 64,000

Bracers of armor +8 Counts as a +4 item so with heavy fortification it would cost the equivalent of a +9 item or 81,000

Is this too cheap still?

The +8 bracers count as +8 enhancment, not +4 when pricing so heavy fortification pushes it out to +13(sidebar A&E 130)*
That section of the sidebar is below word for word so the price would be
13(squared) X 1000= 169,000

*....However, special abilities can increase the effective bonus as high as +13(bracers +8 with an ability valued at +5, such as heavy fortification)....

P.S. The +8 bracers in the DMG are 64,000
CaptKillern
09-19-07, 12:53 AM The +8 bracers count as +8 enhancment, not +4 when pricing so heavy fortification pushes it out to +13(sidebar A&E 130)*
That section of the sidebar is below word for word so the price would be
13(squared) X 1000= 169,000

*....However, special abilities can increase the effective bonus as high as +13(bracers +8 with an ability valued at +5, such as heavy fortification)....

P.S. The +8 bracers in the DMG are 64,000

Deathbane... I know hence my post above... " it is legal, but very cost prohibitive. According to the rules in Arms and Equipment guide, the +4 bracers and +5 ability would cost the equivalent of +9 armor. Or 81,000 gps."
The second part empasized this: "I think I will use the following"
Then I listed the values I would be using...

The reason was: "I think this is too expensive as if you go by gold per character in the DMG you would need to be 12th level to have it and that would be all your gear..."
and to emphasize my line of thought I posted: "you can have Mithral full plate + 2 heavy fortification (58,000 gp)plus a ring of protection +3 (18,000 gp) plus an amulet of natural armor +1 (2000 gp) and a large steel shield +1 (1170 gp) for 79,170 total.

total ac just from items is +17, allows +3 to dex and still costs 1830 gps less."
deathbane
09-19-07, 01:02 AM I did not read everything carefully, but those bracers are insanely expensive because casters are not supposed to benefit from armor. If you make them the same price as armor then why not just go ahead and let them use armor without the chance for spell failure?
Captain_Kobold
09-19-07, 08:23 AM in fact you can have Mithral full plate + 2 heavy fortification (58,000 gp)plus a ring of protection +3 (18,000 gp) plus an amulet of natural armor +1 (2000 gp) and a large steel shield +1 (1170 gp) for 79,170 total.

total ac just from items is +17, allows +3 to dex and still costs 1830 gps less.

You have also used up four of your available body slots, including your off hand, which cuts into your damage significantly. Plus you have reduced your movement, and will have problems casting arcane spells or using some class abilities, depending upon who is wearing it.

The reason that the bracers are so expensive is that they are only taking up a single body slot, provide a force effect AC, and do not restrict spellcasting, class abilities, max dex or most other factors.

If you really and truly believe that high-level mages need a power boost compared with fighters, then there is nothing stopping you from houseruling this in however. :P
Dheran
09-19-07, 09:38 AM You can separate Fortification from armor. The Gemstone of Fortification (Draconomicon, page 83) costs 35,000 gp for Heavy Fortification.

This means you can save enough to add other useful armor properties to Bracers of Armor -- like Mobility, to spare yourself a feat.
Tamujin
09-19-07, 10:56 AM If I were a DM I would never allow fortification (any) on bracers.

Fortification means that the armor is Fortified (magically) at critical locations (like the neck, shoulders, elbows, possibly the genitals), bracers do not cover any critical area (well, the wrists maybe), so I think fortification should not be able to be put on bracers.
Dheran
09-19-07, 07:44 PM If I were a DM I would never allow fortification (any) on bracers.

Fortification means that the armor is Fortified (magically) at critical locations (like the neck, shoulders, elbows, possibly the genitals) You do realize you're making this up, right? Because this isn't in the rules at all. WotC decided that you don't need any armor to have heavy fortification; that's what a Gemstone of Fortification does for you.
deathbane
09-19-07, 07:47 PM You can separate Fortification from armor. The Gemstone of Fortification (Draconomicon, page 83) costs 35,000 gp for Heavy Fortification.

This means you can save enough to add other useful armor properties to Bracers of Armor -- like Mobility, to spare yourself a feat.

He needs to have cast limited wish to make the gem work for him according to the description
CaptKillern
09-19-07, 08:23 PM Thanks for all the responses. Just for the record I did not think about the possible abuse from a wizard type character.

The Bracers are for a fighter that does not use armor... Actually a samurai with the Iaijitsu Master PRC. The character would have a higher AC with mundane armor but for fluff reasons does not use armor.

Dheran, thanks for the info on the gem. I will check that out.
CaptKillern
09-19-07, 08:25 PM If I were a DM I would never allow fortification (any) on bracers.

Fortification means that the armor is Fortified (magically) at critical locations (like the neck, shoulders, elbows, possibly the genitals), bracers do not cover any critical area (well, the wrists maybe), so I think fortification should not be able to be put on bracers.

While that sounds logical, you can legally get Heavy fortification on a buckler shield...
runestar
09-19-07, 09:37 PM And to be fair, Waterdeep has a ring which grants fortification as well.:)

Just think of it as projecting a forcefield which protects your vitals, rather than the armour itself doing the job.
Dheran
09-20-07, 07:28 AM He needs to have cast limited wish to make the gem work for him according to the description That's probably the case, though characters with dragon blood don't need Limited Wish. Either way, you get heavy fortification with no armor -- and it's even unslotted!
deathbane
09-20-07, 07:35 AM That's probably the case, though characters with dragon blood don't need Limited Wish. Either way, you get heavy fortification with no armor -- and it's even unslotted!

The dragon blood statement is not in the item description.
The requirement is that the stone be embedded.............Other creatures require at least a limited wish spell. I could not print the entire description for obvious reasons.

The........ explains the embedding thing
ravenshrike
09-20-07, 01:06 PM For Example: Bracers of Armor + 4 (16,000 gp) with heavy Fortification (a +5 ability) Would you allow this? If so how would you calculate cost? Would it just be the bracers cost + the (+5) ability cost? (25,000gp) for a total of 41,000 gp?

Any help appreciated.

Actually, if you were going to pattern it, it would be +4BoA +1 Enhancement bonus, +5 fortification bonus. So whatever a +6 magical armor would cost - masterwork and armor costs + 16,000 from the BoA themselves.
tarkin
09-20-07, 02:13 PM Allow me to give you the generic first response that is customary on these boards...*cough**cough**clears throat*

OMFG!! BROKEN!!! YOU POWERGAMING MUNCHKIN WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?!

Ok. Now, other than that, go for it:D

ZiggZagg, there are lots of responses that are not like that.

In this particular case, the author clearly did in fact do the math wrong. A +4 item with a +5 power is priced at +9, not the cost of a +5 and a +4. 81,000 gp is the proper price.

But if you truly think that everyone response to all posts the way you did, then I suggest that perhaps it is the posts you are looking at that are the problem, not the boards.

And yes, Fortification is legal. Fortification, despite the bad description someone posted, is done by energy, not by making the armor physically better.
PhaedrusXY
09-20-07, 03:07 PM The problem, if there is one at all, isn't with something like +4 Bracers with Heavy Fortification. It is with + 1 Bracers with Heavy Fortification, and then the mage casts Mage Armor. The armor bonuses won't stack, but special abilities will.
Dheran
09-20-07, 05:00 PM The dragon blood statement is not in the item description.
The requirement is that the stone be embedded.............Other creatures require at least a limited wish spell You're correct. I was going by memory since I looked it up in my first post, and got it wrong. True dragons, not just dragon blood. Others do need Limited Wish -- a one-time service from an NPC spellcaster (cost 2,410 gp including XP*5 charge) if they don't have a spellcasting friend.
Spikes01k
09-20-07, 05:24 PM If I were a DM I would never allow fortification (any) on bracers.

Fortification means that the armor is Fortified (magically) at critical locations (like the neck, shoulders, elbows, possibly the genitals), bracers do not cover any critical area (well, the wrists maybe), so I think fortification should not be able to be put on bracers.

Doesn't matter, they could always put fortification on something else, like say +1 mithral chain shirt. Yeah it uses up a slot, but you have +9 more space for armor enhancements if you really need it. Sense the bonuses are different they would stack.
Spikes01k
09-20-07, 05:26 PM The problem, if there is one at all, isn't with something like +4 Bracers with Heavy Fortification. It is with + 1 Bracers with Heavy Fortification, and then the mage casts Mage Armor. The armor bonuses won't stack, but special abilities will.

Again they could do the same with like fay crafted leather or something. Takes up 1 slot and can put fortification.
StevenO
09-20-07, 07:22 PM If you want to try comparing the AC from Bracers of Armor to standard Magical Armor don't forget the armor needs the +3 equivalent from Ghost Touch to account for the Bracers working against Incorporeal attack. There may be a +2 version that doesn't have all the additional benefits of Ghost touch armor but adding even +2 to the armor increases its price so that it is much closer to the Bracers.

Bracers of Armor need to cost a lot for their effect. It may be a benefit to arcane casters but they could avoid ASF by using a Mithral Shirt of Nimbleness (at least I thinks that's the one) which is a quick +4 (+5 with enchantment) AC at a reasonable cost. Where the Bracers really shine is when used by a character with a very high DEX modifier, net armored AC (Armor + max Dex) is normally +8 with +9 for the armor extremes and possibly another +2 for Mithral; as DEX modifier starts increasing past +6 (Mithral Shirt) you don't normally get an AC benefit unless you drop your armor completely which is where the Bracers become useful.

The class that loves Bracers of Armor the most is the Monk. They can't normally wear armor which means no Armor/Shield based AC which is theoretically made up by the class AC boost and using WIS in addition to DEX. Making Bracers cheap suddenly adds another avenue for increasing the Monk's AC beyond the normal routes.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CaptKillern 09-18-07, 09:52 PM	Hello, The Magic Item Compendium gives rules for combining different magic items together. Like Sandals that add +2 to dex and str... My question is Bracers of armor, they are not armor but would it be game breaking to allow armor properties to be added to Bracers of armor? For Example: Bracers of Armor + 4 (16,000 gp) with heavy Fortification (a +5 ability) Would you allow this? If so how would you calculate cost? Would it just be the bracers cost + the (+5) ability cost? (25,000gp) for a total of 41,000 gp? Any help appreciated.
ZiggZagg 09-18-07, 10:08 PM	Allow me to give you the generic first response that is customary on these boards...coughcoughclears throat OMFG!! BROKEN!!! YOU POWERGAMING MUNCHKIN WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?! Ok. Now, other than that, go for it:D
Patrick Draken-Korin 09-18-07, 10:17 PM	Well, considering that the Arms and Equipment Guide suggests it...:rolleyes: Bracers of armor with +X equivalent armor effects can go as high as +13 (+8 bonus, +5 equivalency), as stated on p. 130. of the AEG. More than +5 equivalency counts as epic.
deathbane 09-18-07, 10:23 PM	Hello, The Magic Item Compendium gives rules for combining different magic items together. Like Sandals that add +2 to dex and str... My question is Bracers of armor, they are not armor but would it be game breaking to allow armor properties to be added to Bracers of armor? For Example: Bracers of Armor + 4 (16,000 gp) with heavy Fortification (a +5 ability) Would you allow this? If so how would you calculate cost? Would it just be the bracers cost + the (+5) ability cost? (25,000gp) for a total of 41,000 gp? Any help appreciated. P.S. I was wrong about the bracers and special abilities
runestar 09-18-07, 10:30 PM	Seems far too cheap, in the very least.
Patrick Draken-Korin 09-18-07, 10:41 PM	For Example: Bracers of Armor + 4 (16,000 gp) with heavy Fortification (a +5 ability) Would you allow this? If so how would you calculate cost? Would it just be the bracers cost + the (+5) ability cost? (25,000gp) for a total of 41,000 gp? Hmm. Missed that.:embarrass In short, No. +4 bracers of armor, with heavy fortification would count as +9 bracers, for 81,000 Gp. Seriously, 41,000? You treat the pattern the same as standard armor. :rolleyes: For an armor bonus; (armor bonus)^2 * 1,000 Gp. A +X equivalency is THE EXACT SAME THING AS A +X BONUS. That's why it's an equivalency.;)
CaptKillern 09-18-07, 10:46 PM	Well the reference Patrick Draken-Korin provided. Shows that it is legal, but very cost prohibitive. According to the rules in Arms and Equipment guide, the +4 bracers and +5 ability would cost the equivalent of +9 armor. Or 81,000 gps. Personaly I think this is too expensive as if you go by gold per character in the DMG you would need to be 12th level to have it and that would be all your gear... Where as Full Plate +1 Heavy fort adds 10 to AC + the ability and only costs 38,000 and leather armor + 2 with the ability costs 49,050. I think I will use the following Bracers or armor +2 counts as a +1 item so with heavy fortification it would be the equivalent of a +6 item or 36,000. Bracers of armor +4 Counts as a +2 item so with heavy fortification it would cost the equivalent of a +7 item or 49,000 Bracers of armor +6 Counts as a +3 item so with heavy fortification it would cost the equivalent of a +8 item or 64,000 Bracers of armor +8 Counts as a +4 item so with heavy fortification it would cost the equivalent of a +9 item or 81,000 Is this too cheap still?
Nom 09-18-07, 11:07 PM	Full Plate +1 Heavy fort adds 10 to AC + the ability and only costs 38,000 and leather armor + 2 with the ability costs 49,050.Full plate also has massive ACP and ASF, low Max Dex to AC, and won't protect against incorporeal touch attacks. Leather is better for ACP and Max Dex to AC, but still applies some ASF and won't work against incorporeal touch attacks.
CaptKillern 09-18-07, 11:32 PM	Full plate also has massive ACP and ASF, low Max Dex to AC, and won't protect against incorporeal touch attacks. Leather is better for ACP and Max Dex to AC, but still applies some ASF and won't work against incorporeal touch attacks. All of this is true, but do you think Bracers of armor +4 with heavy fortification is really worth 81,000gps compared to the conventional armor? You could have 2 suits of full plate +6 for the cost of the Bracers... and still have money left over... in fact you can have Mithral full plate + 2 heavy fortification (58,000 gp)plus a ring of protection +3 (18,000 gp) plus an amulet of natural armor +1 (2000 gp) and a large steel shield +1 (1170 gp) for 79,170 total. total ac just from items is +17, allows +3 to dex and still costs 1830 gps less.
deathbane 09-19-07, 12:43 AM	Well the reference Patrick Draken-Korin provided. Shows that it is legal, but very cost prohibitive. According to the rules in Arms and Equipment guide, the +4 bracers and +5 ability would cost the equivalent of +9 armor. Or 81,000 gps. Personaly I think this is too expensive as if you go by gold per character in the DMG you would need to be 12th level to have it and that would be all your gear... Where as Full Plate +1 Heavy fort adds 10 to AC + the ability and only costs 38,000 and leather armor + 2 with the ability costs 49,050. I think I will use the following Bracers or armor +2 counts as a +1 item so with heavy fortification it would be the equivalent of a +6 item or 36,000. Bracers of armor +4 Counts as a +2 item so with heavy fortification it would cost the equivalent of a +7 item or 49,000 Bracers of armor +6 Counts as a +3 item so with heavy fortification it would cost the equivalent of a +8 item or 64,000 Bracers of armor +8 Counts as a +4 item so with heavy fortification it would cost the equivalent of a +9 item or 81,000 Is this too cheap still? The +8 bracers count as +8 enhancment, not +4 when pricing so heavy fortification pushes it out to +13(sidebar A&E 130)* That section of the sidebar is below word for word so the price would be 13(squared) X 1000= 169,000 *....However, special abilities can increase the effective bonus as high as +13(bracers +8 with an ability valued at +5, such as heavy fortification).... P.S. The +8 bracers in the DMG are 64,000
CaptKillern 09-19-07, 12:53 AM	The +8 bracers count as +8 enhancment, not +4 when pricing so heavy fortification pushes it out to +13(sidebar A&E 130)* That section of the sidebar is below word for word so the price would be 13(squared) X 1000= 169,000 *....However, special abilities can increase the effective bonus as high as +13(bracers +8 with an ability valued at +5, such as heavy fortification).... P.S. The +8 bracers in the DMG are 64,000 Deathbane... I know hence my post above... " it is legal, but very cost prohibitive. According to the rules in Arms and Equipment guide, the +4 bracers and +5 ability would cost the equivalent of +9 armor. Or 81,000 gps." The second part empasized this: "I think I will use the following" Then I listed the values I would be using... The reason was: "I think this is too expensive as if you go by gold per character in the DMG you would need to be 12th level to have it and that would be all your gear..." and to emphasize my line of thought I posted: "you can have Mithral full plate + 2 heavy fortification (58,000 gp)plus a ring of protection +3 (18,000 gp) plus an amulet of natural armor +1 (2000 gp) and a large steel shield +1 (1170 gp) for 79,170 total. total ac just from items is +17, allows +3 to dex and still costs 1830 gps less."
deathbane 09-19-07, 01:02 AM	I did not read everything carefully, but those bracers are insanely expensive because casters are not supposed to benefit from armor. If you make them the same price as armor then why not just go ahead and let them use armor without the chance for spell failure?
Captain_Kobold 09-19-07, 08:23 AM	in fact you can have Mithral full plate + 2 heavy fortification (58,000 gp)plus a ring of protection +3 (18,000 gp) plus an amulet of natural armor +1 (2000 gp) and a large steel shield +1 (1170 gp) for 79,170 total. total ac just from items is +17, allows +3 to dex and still costs 1830 gps less. You have also used up four of your available body slots, including your off hand, which cuts into your damage significantly. Plus you have reduced your movement, and will have problems casting arcane spells or using some class abilities, depending upon who is wearing it. The reason that the bracers are so expensive is that they are only taking up a single body slot, provide a force effect AC, and do not restrict spellcasting, class abilities, max dex or most other factors. If you really and truly believe that high-level mages need a power boost compared with fighters, then there is nothing stopping you from houseruling this in however. :P
Dheran 09-19-07, 09:38 AM	You can separate Fortification from armor. The Gemstone of Fortification (Draconomicon, page 83) costs 35,000 gp for Heavy Fortification. This means you can save enough to add other useful armor properties to Bracers of Armor -- like Mobility, to spare yourself a feat.
Tamujin 09-19-07, 10:56 AM	If I were a DM I would never allow fortification (any) on bracers. Fortification means that the armor is Fortified (magically) at critical locations (like the neck, shoulders, elbows, possibly the genitals), bracers do not cover any critical area (well, the wrists maybe), so I think fortification should not be able to be put on bracers.
Dheran 09-19-07, 07:44 PM	If I were a DM I would never allow fortification (any) on bracers. Fortification means that the armor is Fortified (magically) at critical locations (like the neck, shoulders, elbows, possibly the genitals) You do realize you're making this up, right? Because this isn't in the rules at all. WotC decided that you don't need any armor to have heavy fortification; that's what a Gemstone of Fortification does for you.
deathbane 09-19-07, 07:47 PM	You can separate Fortification from armor. The Gemstone of Fortification (Draconomicon, page 83) costs 35,000 gp for Heavy Fortification. This means you can save enough to add other useful armor properties to Bracers of Armor -- like Mobility, to spare yourself a feat. He needs to have cast limited wish to make the gem work for him according to the description
CaptKillern 09-19-07, 08:23 PM	Thanks for all the responses. Just for the record I did not think about the possible abuse from a wizard type character. The Bracers are for a fighter that does not use armor... Actually a samurai with the Iaijitsu Master PRC. The character would have a higher AC with mundane armor but for fluff reasons does not use armor. Dheran, thanks for the info on the gem. I will check that out.
CaptKillern 09-19-07, 08:25 PM	If I were a DM I would never allow fortification (any) on bracers. Fortification means that the armor is Fortified (magically) at critical locations (like the neck, shoulders, elbows, possibly the genitals), bracers do not cover any critical area (well, the wrists maybe), so I think fortification should not be able to be put on bracers. While that sounds logical, you can legally get Heavy fortification on a buckler shield...
runestar 09-19-07, 09:37 PM	And to be fair, Waterdeep has a ring which grants fortification as well.:) Just think of it as projecting a forcefield which protects your vitals, rather than the armour itself doing the job.
Dheran 09-20-07, 07:28 AM	He needs to have cast limited wish to make the gem work for him according to the description That's probably the case, though characters with dragon blood don't need Limited Wish. Either way, you get heavy fortification with no armor -- and it's even unslotted!
deathbane 09-20-07, 07:35 AM	That's probably the case, though characters with dragon blood don't need Limited Wish. Either way, you get heavy fortification with no armor -- and it's even unslotted! The dragon blood statement is not in the item description. The requirement is that the stone be embedded.............Other creatures require at least a limited wish spell. I could not print the entire description for obvious reasons. The........ explains the embedding thing
ravenshrike 09-20-07, 01:06 PM	For Example: Bracers of Armor + 4 (16,000 gp) with heavy Fortification (a +5 ability) Would you allow this? If so how would you calculate cost? Would it just be the bracers cost + the (+5) ability cost? (25,000gp) for a total of 41,000 gp? Any help appreciated. Actually, if you were going to pattern it, it would be +4BoA +1 Enhancement bonus, +5 fortification bonus. So whatever a +6 magical armor would cost - masterwork and armor costs + 16,000 from the BoA themselves.
tarkin 09-20-07, 02:13 PM	Allow me to give you the generic first response that is customary on these boards...coughcoughclears throat OMFG!! BROKEN!!! YOU POWERGAMING MUNCHKIN WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?! Ok. Now, other than that, go for it:D ZiggZagg, there are lots of responses that are not like that. In this particular case, the author clearly did in fact do the math wrong. A +4 item with a +5 power is priced at +9, not the cost of a +5 and a +4. 81,000 gp is the proper price. But if you truly think that everyone response to all posts the way you did, then I suggest that perhaps it is the posts you are looking at that are the problem, not the boards. And yes, Fortification is legal. Fortification, despite the bad description someone posted, is done by energy, not by making the armor physically better.
PhaedrusXY 09-20-07, 03:07 PM	The problem, if there is one at all, isn't with something like +4 Bracers with Heavy Fortification. It is with + 1 Bracers with Heavy Fortification, and then the mage casts Mage Armor. The armor bonuses won't stack, but special abilities will.
Dheran 09-20-07, 05:00 PM	The dragon blood statement is not in the item description. The requirement is that the stone be embedded.............Other creatures require at least a limited wish spell You're correct. I was going by memory since I looked it up in my first post, and got it wrong. True dragons, not just dragon blood. Others do need Limited Wish -- a one-time service from an NPC spellcaster (cost 2,410 gp including XP*5 charge) if they don't have a spellcasting friend.
Spikes01k 09-20-07, 05:24 PM	If I were a DM I would never allow fortification (any) on bracers. Fortification means that the armor is Fortified (magically) at critical locations (like the neck, shoulders, elbows, possibly the genitals), bracers do not cover any critical area (well, the wrists maybe), so I think fortification should not be able to be put on bracers. Doesn't matter, they could always put fortification on something else, like say +1 mithral chain shirt. Yeah it uses up a slot, but you have +9 more space for armor enhancements if you really need it. Sense the bonuses are different they would stack.
Spikes01k 09-20-07, 05:26 PM	The problem, if there is one at all, isn't with something like +4 Bracers with Heavy Fortification. It is with + 1 Bracers with Heavy Fortification, and then the mage casts Mage Armor. The armor bonuses won't stack, but special abilities will. Again they could do the same with like fay crafted leather or something. Takes up 1 slot and can put fortification.
StevenO 09-20-07, 07:22 PM	If you want to try comparing the AC from Bracers of Armor to standard Magical Armor don't forget the armor needs the +3 equivalent from Ghost Touch to account for the Bracers working against Incorporeal attack. There may be a +2 version that doesn't have all the additional benefits of Ghost touch armor but adding even +2 to the armor increases its price so that it is much closer to the Bracers. Bracers of Armor need to cost a lot for their effect. It may be a benefit to arcane casters but they could avoid ASF by using a Mithral Shirt of Nimbleness (at least I thinks that's the one) which is a quick +4 (+5 with enchantment) AC at a reasonable cost. Where the Bracers really shine is when used by a character with a very high DEX modifier, net armored AC (Armor + max Dex) is normally +8 with +9 for the armor extremes and possibly another +2 for Mithral; as DEX modifier starts increasing past +6 (Mithral Shirt) you don't normally get an AC benefit unless you drop your armor completely which is where the Bracers become useful. The class that loves Bracers of Armor the most is the Monk. They can't normally wear armor which means no Armor/Shield based AC which is theoretically made up by the class AC boost and using WIS in addition to DEX. Making Bracers cheap suddenly adds another avenue for increasing the Monk's AC beyond the normal routes.