Armor spike questions I'm sure have been asked before . . . [Archive] - Wizards Community

Armor spike questions I'm sure have been asked before . . . [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Profigliano
12-05-05, 01:10 PM . . . but there's no search button and I've scrolled through several hundred threads, FAQs, and so forth. So please help clarify an old hand's muddy perception. I have recently recently returned to the D&D fold and need to get back up to speed on some stuff. To wit:

My understanding of armor spikes and TWF with a two-handed weapon is that it is acceptable because the spikes are a light weapon that aren't actually wielded in a hand. Fair enough. Does that mean that you get 1.5X your STR bonus when you swing the two-hander and .5X for the spikes? Further, can you add spikes to any armor? The PHB seems to indicate so. I'm thinking it might be tough with some portions (primarily limbs) of leather/studded. In those cases where the spikes can't simply be riveted on, maybe it can be overcome by having something like detachable elbow/knee/boot spikes (and spiked gauntlets, of course). Maybe you'd have to detach them before sleeping in the leather armor? (I'm suddenly envisioning a whole Mad Max-style montage with the strapping on process every morning.)

Also, the books say you can get them majically enhanced, but would you have to do it separately for each spike? Could get VERY expensive.

I'm sure there are whole threads devoted to this, but I can't find them, so I'd be grateful for any help (I sort of need some answers by tomorrow night).

Thanks.
mvincent
12-05-05, 01:14 PM Does that mean that you get 1.5X your STR bonus when you swing the two-hander and .5X for the spikes?Yes.

Further, can you add spikes to any armor?Yes.

Maybe you'd have to detach them before sleeping in the leather armor?The rules do not cover this.

Also, the books say you can get them majically enhanced, but would you have to do it separately for each spike?No.
tarkin
12-05-05, 02:01 PM Strict or Loose Game: When using Armor spikes and a THW, yo get x1 for the two handed weapon and x0.5 for the armor spikes.They are treated exactly as if they are a light weapon wielded in your off hand. You only have so much strength to go around, and the normal limit is x1.5, not x2. Some Loose gamers will let you do x1.5 and x0 strength.

Power Game/anything Goes Game: Sure, use x1.5 and x.5

All: You can add spikes to any armor. They are "strap on's".

All: Armor spikes count as a single weapon, no matter how many you have. This goes for enchanting and wielding.
Profigliano
12-05-05, 02:06 PM Wow. That's pretty much a tri-(.5)-fecta. Thanks a lot. One further question occurs to me: Adding spikes to already-majicked armor? Would it harm the enhancement already in place---assuming it's not something (like slipperiness) which might work directly counter to the spikes' function?

Thanks again. I wish we'd had something like this 27 or so years ago (Yep. I pre-date AD&D). It would have saved a lot of time spent burying bodies after heated teenage rules disputes.

Y'all are great.
mvincent
12-05-05, 02:12 PM When using Armor spikes and a THW, yo get x1 for the two handed weapon and x0.5 for the armor spikes.While that seems like an advisable house-rule, do you have any RAW support for this conclusion?
Profigliano
12-05-05, 03:40 PM While that seems like an advisable house-rule, do you have any RAW support for this conclusion?

Yes. Please. I mean, it seems to me if you're using two hands, you're using two hands---and that's what the 1.5xSTR dam bonus is based on, not how many attacks you get. Just as a weird example, let's say you use the two-hander while you're wearing spikes---but you don't attack with the spikes. Do you only get x1STR dam for any attack simply because you're wearing them? And if the answer is no, and you get the x1.5 bonus and then there's an AoO that (for some reason) you use the spikes for, do you, I dunno, retroactively reduce the damage you did with the two-hander or make the spike damage x.5STR because "you only have so much strength to go around?" I can definitely see why you'd want to limit the munchkining with this stuff, but I would also like it to make sense.

And yeah, I understand that sometimes it's just the way system works.

Anyway, thanks again.
Nom
12-06-05, 01:16 AM The FAQ claims it's acceptable, using the interesting logic that attacking with a two-handed weapon doesn't count as attacking with an off-hand weapon. Not a few players consider this as yet more evidence of the lack of playtesting (especially wrt game balance and coherence) in the FAQ.

Given that it is legal, you would do normal two-hand damage with the two-handed weapon and normal off-hand damage with the armour spikes.
Borris
12-06-05, 02:13 AM One further question occurs to me: Adding spikes to already-majicked armor? Would it harm the enhancement already in place---assuming it's not something (like slipperiness) which might work directly counter to the spikes' function?
Magic enhancement for the spikes and armor are actually counted as two completely separate items, and each is prices accordingly. You can have a +5 adamantine armor with +1 cold iron spikes, or a masterwork armor with +1 flaming keen spikes. And yes, you could have a +1 armor of slipperiness equiped with armor spikes. After all, it's magic that makes the armor slippery, not any kind of oil or anything. Just remember that the spikes' enhancement is priced as for a weapon.
Kraleck
12-06-05, 08:53 AM I also have a question relating to armor spikes...
Can you have both armor spikes and razors, either half-and-half (half slashing-half piercing damage, normal weight) or stacked (normal damage with each, but stack the added weight), and would it cost more to add both to armor (in either case)?
kjenks
12-06-05, 09:51 AM I also have a question relating to armor spikes...
Can you have both armor spikes and razors, either half-and-half (half slashing-half piercing damage, normal weight) or stacked (normal damage with each, but stack the added weight), and would it cost more to add both to armor (in either case)?

Normally, armor spikes inflict only piercing damage. Of course you can ask your DM to make a special weapon, but there isn't much guidance in the rule books for this.
kjenks
12-06-05, 10:07 AM The FAQ claims it's acceptable, using the interesting logic that attacking with a two-handed weapon doesn't count as attacking with an off-hand weapon. Not a few players consider this as yet more evidence of the lack of playtesting (especially wrt game balance and coherence) in the FAQ.

Given that it is legal, you would do normal two-hand damage with the two-handed weapon and normal off-hand damage with the armour spikes.

By analogy, it seems acceptable for a monk to use a two-handed weapon and to use TWF to make an unarmed strike as an off-hand attack. The advantage: Power Attack works normally (1x) on unarmed strike, but not on most other light weapons.

This would be similar to a creature with hands and a gore or bite attack using a two-handed weapon and getting a secondary natural weapon attack (at -5). Minotaurs come to mind. Power Attack also works with natural weapons, even though they are light weapons. Coincidentally, standard minotaurs have Power Attack.
Profigliano
12-06-05, 12:01 PM Magic enhancement for the spikes and armor are actually counted as two completely separate items, and each is prices accordingly. You can have a +5 adamantine armor with +1 cold iron spikes, or a masterwork armor with +1 flaming keen spikes. And yes, you could have a +1 armor of slipperiness equiped with armor spikes. After all, it's magic that makes the armor slippery, not any kind of oil or anything. Just remember that the spikes' enhancement is priced as for a weapon.

Check. I get that. I was mainly wondering about the effect of adding spikes to---or in any way structurally altering, e.g., re-sizing---previously enhanced armor. Seems like it's Kosher. In any case, my semi-murderous, soon-to-be TWF'ing ecoterrorist ranger/fighter (hates loggers, farmers, developers, and miners) is defintiely going the slashy/pointy death route.

Thanks again, folks. 'Specially Wormy Willie, if you're out there.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Profigliano 12-05-05, 01:10 PM	. . . but there's no search button and I've scrolled through several hundred threads, FAQs, and so forth. So please help clarify an old hand's muddy perception. I have recently recently returned to the D&D fold and need to get back up to speed on some stuff. To wit: My understanding of armor spikes and TWF with a two-handed weapon is that it is acceptable because the spikes are a light weapon that aren't actually wielded in a hand. Fair enough. Does that mean that you get 1.5X your STR bonus when you swing the two-hander and .5X for the spikes? Further, can you add spikes to any armor? The PHB seems to indicate so. I'm thinking it might be tough with some portions (primarily limbs) of leather/studded. In those cases where the spikes can't simply be riveted on, maybe it can be overcome by having something like detachable elbow/knee/boot spikes (and spiked gauntlets, of course). Maybe you'd have to detach them before sleeping in the leather armor? (I'm suddenly envisioning a whole Mad Max-style montage with the strapping on process every morning.) Also, the books say you can get them majically enhanced, but would you have to do it separately for each spike? Could get VERY expensive. I'm sure there are whole threads devoted to this, but I can't find them, so I'd be grateful for any help (I sort of need some answers by tomorrow night). Thanks.
mvincent 12-05-05, 01:14 PM	Does that mean that you get 1.5X your STR bonus when you swing the two-hander and .5X for the spikes?Yes. Further, can you add spikes to any armor?Yes. Maybe you'd have to detach them before sleeping in the leather armor?The rules do not cover this. Also, the books say you can get them majically enhanced, but would you have to do it separately for each spike?No.
tarkin 12-05-05, 02:01 PM	Strict or Loose Game: When using Armor spikes and a THW, yo get x1 for the two handed weapon and x0.5 for the armor spikes.They are treated exactly as if they are a light weapon wielded in your off hand. You only have so much strength to go around, and the normal limit is x1.5, not x2. Some Loose gamers will let you do x1.5 and x0 strength. Power Game/anything Goes Game: Sure, use x1.5 and x.5 All: You can add spikes to any armor. They are "strap on's". All: Armor spikes count as a single weapon, no matter how many you have. This goes for enchanting and wielding.
Profigliano 12-05-05, 02:06 PM	Wow. That's pretty much a tri-(.5)-fecta. Thanks a lot. One further question occurs to me: Adding spikes to already-majicked armor? Would it harm the enhancement already in place---assuming it's not something (like slipperiness) which might work directly counter to the spikes' function? Thanks again. I wish we'd had something like this 27 or so years ago (Yep. I pre-date AD&D). It would have saved a lot of time spent burying bodies after heated teenage rules disputes. Y'all are great.
mvincent 12-05-05, 02:12 PM	When using Armor spikes and a THW, yo get x1 for the two handed weapon and x0.5 for the armor spikes.While that seems like an advisable house-rule, do you have any RAW support for this conclusion?
Profigliano 12-05-05, 03:40 PM	While that seems like an advisable house-rule, do you have any RAW support for this conclusion? Yes. Please. I mean, it seems to me if you're using two hands, you're using two hands---and that's what the 1.5xSTR dam bonus is based on, not how many attacks you get. Just as a weird example, let's say you use the two-hander while you're wearing spikes---but you don't attack with the spikes. Do you only get x1STR dam for any attack simply because you're wearing them? And if the answer is no, and you get the x1.5 bonus and then there's an AoO that (for some reason) you use the spikes for, do you, I dunno, retroactively reduce the damage you did with the two-hander or make the spike damage x.5STR because "you only have so much strength to go around?" I can definitely see why you'd want to limit the munchkining with this stuff, but I would also like it to make sense. And yeah, I understand that sometimes it's just the way system works. Anyway, thanks again.
Nom 12-06-05, 01:16 AM	The FAQ claims it's acceptable, using the interesting logic that attacking with a two-handed weapon doesn't count as attacking with an off-hand weapon. Not a few players consider this as yet more evidence of the lack of playtesting (especially wrt game balance and coherence) in the FAQ. Given that it is legal, you would do normal two-hand damage with the two-handed weapon and normal off-hand damage with the armour spikes.
Borris 12-06-05, 02:13 AM	One further question occurs to me: Adding spikes to already-majicked armor? Would it harm the enhancement already in place---assuming it's not something (like slipperiness) which might work directly counter to the spikes' function? Magic enhancement for the spikes and armor are actually counted as two completely separate items, and each is prices accordingly. You can have a +5 adamantine armor with +1 cold iron spikes, or a masterwork armor with +1 flaming keen spikes. And yes, you could have a +1 armor of slipperiness equiped with armor spikes. After all, it's magic that makes the armor slippery, not any kind of oil or anything. Just remember that the spikes' enhancement is priced as for a weapon.
Kraleck 12-06-05, 08:53 AM	I also have a question relating to armor spikes... Can you have both armor spikes and razors, either half-and-half (half slashing-half piercing damage, normal weight) or stacked (normal damage with each, but stack the added weight), and would it cost more to add both to armor (in either case)?
kjenks 12-06-05, 09:51 AM	I also have a question relating to armor spikes... Can you have both armor spikes and razors, either half-and-half (half slashing-half piercing damage, normal weight) or stacked (normal damage with each, but stack the added weight), and would it cost more to add both to armor (in either case)? Normally, armor spikes inflict only piercing damage. Of course you can ask your DM to make a special weapon, but there isn't much guidance in the rule books for this.
kjenks 12-06-05, 10:07 AM	The FAQ claims it's acceptable, using the interesting logic that attacking with a two-handed weapon doesn't count as attacking with an off-hand weapon. Not a few players consider this as yet more evidence of the lack of playtesting (especially wrt game balance and coherence) in the FAQ. Given that it is legal, you would do normal two-hand damage with the two-handed weapon and normal off-hand damage with the armour spikes. By analogy, it seems acceptable for a monk to use a two-handed weapon and to use TWF to make an unarmed strike as an off-hand attack. The advantage: Power Attack works normally (1x) on unarmed strike, but not on most other light weapons. This would be similar to a creature with hands and a gore or bite attack using a two-handed weapon and getting a secondary natural weapon attack (at -5). Minotaurs come to mind. Power Attack also works with natural weapons, even though they are light weapons. Coincidentally, standard minotaurs have Power Attack.
Profigliano 12-06-05, 12:01 PM	Magic enhancement for the spikes and armor are actually counted as two completely separate items, and each is prices accordingly. You can have a +5 adamantine armor with +1 cold iron spikes, or a masterwork armor with +1 flaming keen spikes. And yes, you could have a +1 armor of slipperiness equiped with armor spikes. After all, it's magic that makes the armor slippery, not any kind of oil or anything. Just remember that the spikes' enhancement is priced as for a weapon. Check. I get that. I was mainly wondering about the effect of adding spikes to---or in any way structurally altering, e.g., re-sizing---previously enhanced armor. Seems like it's Kosher. In any case, my semi-murderous, soon-to-be TWF'ing ecoterrorist ranger/fighter (hates loggers, farmers, developers, and miners) is defintiely going the slashy/pointy death route. Thanks again, folks. 'Specially Wormy Willie, if you're out there.