armor spikes and spiked chain? [Archive] - Wizards Community

armor spikes and spiked chain? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
bonelock
04-20-06, 08:56 PM Can I make an attack with armor spikes as an off-hand attack if I am wielding a two-handed weapon like a spiked chain?
Kobogen
04-20-06, 09:29 PM Im thinking you mean to slam into them with a second attack. If so, im sure you can but you should draw an AoO.
ClementWillowbreaker
04-20-06, 09:44 PM Yes, you can, when you take TWFing penalties to wield both at the same time.

Kobogen, don't just make stuff up. "Slamming" into someone is not using armor spikes. If it was, then any use of them would provoke, and it doesn't.
Kobogen
04-20-06, 09:51 PM What? What makes you think slaming into someone is not using armor spikes? In order to attack someone with the spikes on his armor he will have to grapple them or slam into them. He didnt say a spiked glove he said armor spikes. If he doesnt have feats that say otherwise he will draw an aoO.
ClementWillowbreaker
04-20-06, 09:55 PM And what feat exactly do you want him to take? There isn't one, because you are making up limitations, hence there are no feats to remove your imaginary limitations. Don't confuse people asking about the RAW with your own opinions.
Kobogen
04-20-06, 10:14 PM Improved unarmed attack.

If you punch or kick someone without said feat you draw aoO.

If you grapple without Improved Grapple you draw aoO.

Unless the spikes on the armor are 2 feet long I cant see how you would draw an aoO when you run up to grap them but not draw that same attack when you run up to force spikes into them.

Its just another F*%kup in the books. You cant punch somone without IUA without getting hit yourself but if you put 1 inch steal gauntlet on your hand you Suddenly dont draw that attack. That one inch SOMEHOW stops them from attacking you when your doing that same damn thing.

Raw has holes. This is one of them.
Jay_Ibero_911
04-20-06, 10:20 PM You do draw an AOO for using a regular guantlet, because that still counts as an unarmed strike, but a spiked gauntlet is a weapon in it's own right, so you don't provoke an AOO for using it. Armor spikes are not an unarmed strike at all, they are a weapon like any other. The advantage is they do not take up a hand, and they let you do more damage in a grapple, but they are in no way restricted to be used in a grapple...stop making assumptions...
draconic_swine
04-21-06, 12:25 AM Gauntlet
This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack.

Spiked Gauntlet
An attack with a spiked gauntlet is considered an armed attack.

Armor Spikes
You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. The spikes count as a martial weapon. If you are not proficient with them, you take a -4 penalty on grapple checks when you try to use them. You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can’t also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa.)

(emphasis mine)

Seriously, Kobogen, check out the rules sometime. They really help when trying to correctly answer the questions of others.
Cainne
04-21-06, 01:03 AM That is kinda wierd when ya think about it... I guess you can explain it basicially like brushing by someone, thus impaling them on the spikes.
or if you had like armor spikes on your knee pads... that'd be quite the wake up call.
babysamurai
04-21-06, 07:34 AM Strap on a buckler and take Improved Buckler Defence - that stacked with TWF and armour spikes will let you attack with the spiked chain, and the armour spikes as an off-hand weapon, and still retain your shield bonus to AC.

Of course you will take the penalties for fighting with two weapons, and the attacks from your spiked chain will be at an additional -1 because of the buckler.
Tony Vargas
04-21-06, 01:40 PM The RAW says nothing difinitive.

The FAQ says yes.

I say :nonono: Combinging TWF with a two-handed weapon is just wrongwrongwrong, just from a game balance PoV.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bonelock 04-20-06, 08:56 PM	Can I make an attack with armor spikes as an off-hand attack if I am wielding a two-handed weapon like a spiked chain?
Kobogen 04-20-06, 09:29 PM	Im thinking you mean to slam into them with a second attack. If so, im sure you can but you should draw an AoO.
ClementWillowbreaker 04-20-06, 09:44 PM	Yes, you can, when you take TWFing penalties to wield both at the same time. Kobogen, don't just make stuff up. "Slamming" into someone is not using armor spikes. If it was, then any use of them would provoke, and it doesn't.
Kobogen 04-20-06, 09:51 PM	What? What makes you think slaming into someone is not using armor spikes? In order to attack someone with the spikes on his armor he will have to grapple them or slam into them. He didnt say a spiked glove he said armor spikes. If he doesnt have feats that say otherwise he will draw an aoO.
ClementWillowbreaker 04-20-06, 09:55 PM	And what feat exactly do you want him to take? There isn't one, because you are making up limitations, hence there are no feats to remove your imaginary limitations. Don't confuse people asking about the RAW with your own opinions.
Kobogen 04-20-06, 10:14 PM	Improved unarmed attack. If you punch or kick someone without said feat you draw aoO. If you grapple without Improved Grapple you draw aoO. Unless the spikes on the armor are 2 feet long I cant see how you would draw an aoO when you run up to grap them but not draw that same attack when you run up to force spikes into them. Its just another F*%kup in the books. You cant punch somone without IUA without getting hit yourself but if you put 1 inch steal gauntlet on your hand you Suddenly dont draw that attack. That one inch SOMEHOW stops them from attacking you when your doing that same damn thing. Raw has holes. This is one of them.
Jay_Ibero_911 04-20-06, 10:20 PM	You do draw an AOO for using a regular guantlet, because that still counts as an unarmed strike, but a spiked gauntlet is a weapon in it's own right, so you don't provoke an AOO for using it. Armor spikes are not an unarmed strike at all, they are a weapon like any other. The advantage is they do not take up a hand, and they let you do more damage in a grapple, but they are in no way restricted to be used in a grapple...stop making assumptions...
draconic_swine 04-21-06, 12:25 AM	Gauntlet This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack. Spiked Gauntlet An attack with a spiked gauntlet is considered an armed attack. Armor Spikes You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. The spikes count as a martial weapon. If you are not proficient with them, you take a -4 penalty on grapple checks when you try to use them. You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can’t also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa.) (emphasis mine) Seriously, Kobogen, check out the rules sometime. They really help when trying to correctly answer the questions of others.
Cainne 04-21-06, 01:03 AM	That is kinda wierd when ya think about it... I guess you can explain it basicially like brushing by someone, thus impaling them on the spikes. or if you had like armor spikes on your knee pads... that'd be quite the wake up call.
babysamurai 04-21-06, 07:34 AM	Strap on a buckler and take Improved Buckler Defence - that stacked with TWF and armour spikes will let you attack with the spiked chain, and the armour spikes as an off-hand weapon, and still retain your shield bonus to AC. Of course you will take the penalties for fighting with two weapons, and the attacks from your spiked chain will be at an additional -1 because of the buckler.
Tony Vargas 04-21-06, 01:40 PM	The RAW says nothing difinitive. The FAQ says yes. I say :nonono: Combinging TWF with a two-handed weapon is just wrongwrongwrong, just from a game balance PoV.