Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Baron Rod 04-12-06, 10:07 AM	Armor Spikes cover armor on both arms, shoulders, and legs(knee areas). Could you use armor spikes to make both Primary attacks and Off-hand weapon attacks (Two weapon fighting, etc.). If you could would you have any magic bonuses (+1 to +5) or abilities (Bane, Frost, etc..) apply to all attacks, or would you have to pay for more than one enchantment? Baron Rod
jaelis 04-12-06, 10:12 AM	I would say you can't use them for regular and off-hand attacks in the same round. They are listed as a weapon like any other, and follow the same rules as other weapon unless stated otherwise. I think most people would agree, but I guess I'll find out!
babysamurai 04-12-06, 10:27 AM	I would say you can't use them for regular and off-hand attacks in the same round. They are listed as a weapon like any other, and follow the same rules as other weapon unless stated otherwise. I think most people would agree, but I guess I'll find out! I am also in agreement.
tarkin 04-12-06, 10:38 AM	I agree. No way they count as a double weapon. Frankly Armor Spikes are already unrealistically abusive. Apparently they stick out from your chest to the same distance you can reach with your sword. A truly realistic game would nerf them down to 0' reach, you should be required to grapple to get any benefit from them.
babysamurai 04-12-06, 11:06 AM	A truly realistic game ...that's a good one.
mvincent 04-12-06, 11:23 AM	I believe this is subject to interpretation and would be a DM call. This was previously discussed in regard to unarmed strikes (see here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8897343)), and the rulings found during that discussion seemed to lean towards allowing an unarmed strike to be used in both the primary and off hands at the same time. Armor spikes could be viewed similarly. However, I personally still have a hard time reconciling that all your armor spikes are enhanced when you upgrade them with magic, and so would likely still force someone to pay double if they wanted to use magical spikes as both a primary and off-hand weapon.
babysamurai 04-12-06, 11:54 AM	This here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8897343)), and the rulings found during that discussion seemed to lean towards allowing an unarmed strike to be used in both the primary and off hands at the same time. Armor spikes could be viewed similarly. Not leaning - it's stated in the FAQ; that you can use unarmed strikes as a primary and off-hand weapon in a full attack. ...or in a Flurry and off-hand attack in a full attack when using TWF.
Tony Vargas 04-12-06, 12:13 PM	Armor Spikes break a lot of rules, and (seemingly like anything else in 3E that contains the word 'spike') are probably pretty broken on a number of levels, being exploitable in a variety of ways. So far, even though it makes a fair amount of sense to poke someone with the spikes on each arm in the same round, AFAIK, this particular abuse hasn't been officially sanctioned. As the OP points out, this would be a loophole that'd allow a TWFer to gain the benefits of a magical weapon with both hands without having to enchant the weapon twice (something you can't even do with double-weapons). Armor Spikes already have open loopholes allowing you to TWF while gaining a shield bonus without needed Improved Shield Bash or Two-Weapon Defense, or to TWF while using a two-handed weapon and gaining it's increased STR and Power Attack bonuses, or threaten adjacent with the spikes while threatening at reach with a pole-arm.
jaelis 04-12-06, 12:19 PM	Not leaning - it's stated in the FAQ; that you can use unarmed strikes as a primary and off-hand weapon in a full attack. Now, babysamurai and I don't quite have the same definition of "stated", so I'd disagree here. But that's a topic for another thread that's already been done.
babysamurai 04-12-06, 12:26 PM	Now, babysamurai and I don't quite have the same definition of "stated", so I'd disagree here. But that's a topic for another thread that's already been done. Stated: As in, that's what it says in the FAQ...but I still don't think you've read it with your eyes open.
DocBeard 04-12-06, 05:39 PM	I would probably allow someone to own two sets of armor spikes and treat them as a pair of light weapons, if they *really* wanted to. Using the same set of armor spikes for multiple TWF attacks though, no, any more than you could 'TWF' by switching your dagger from one hand to the other really quickly.
kelvinaw273 04-12-06, 05:46 PM	Take a good look at some medieval armour, or even chivalric armour. Note the articulated joints (the ones that NASA scientists later said could have saved them two years of developement time on space suits)? Note the smoothe lines? What do you not see? That's right - armour spikes! Why? Well .... 1) Armour is designed to deflect blows. Odd protrusions (like spikes) will catch them, damaging the armour, not to mention the man inside it. 2) They get in the way, snag on objects and genrally make life awkward. Some may complain, but in my campaigns anyone wanting armour spikes takes a penalty on both AC and max dexterity bonus. Looking cool has its penalties ...