Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RikuKupo 02-17-07, 08:01 PM	Hear me out. It would only be +1, with no max DEX or armor check. It would cost around 800-1000 gp by itself, and can be enchanted like regular armor. Is this so much worse than using bracers of armor? In AaEG, it says you can enchant the bracers of armor with special abilities, so it can really become your armor. Unless I misread something (which happens more than it should to be honest) the bracers of armor wouldn't deny the monk his bonuses. This is similar, just cheeper and doesn't use the bracers spot. I got the idea from the bondleaf wrap in AaEG. But this would be more of a suit of wraps or something. If you know what the Dark Brotherhood armor from Oblivion looks like, you know what I'm trying to say. Does this sound feasable?
jacobi289 02-17-07, 08:30 PM	I was wondering the same thing.
Willie the Duck 02-17-07, 08:50 PM	Well, it would provide 1 more point of armor, which does effect the balance quite a bit (it seems small, but at higher levels, replacing +8 bracers of armor with +7 one of these would save a monk 15000 gp, minus whatever this costs. It also violates the basic sensibility of the monk as completely unarmored (even moreso than wizards). I think of my monks as shirtless, not wearing some kind of wrap. Balance-wise, though, it would not be a big thing, however, for your bracers of armor to take up the robe-armor slot instead.
runestar 02-17-07, 08:54 PM	You could just craft the bracers to occupy the body slot...
jacobi289 02-17-07, 09:07 PM	What about masterwork clothing? Not armor, just a masterwork cotton shirt for example. You can enchant that right, and it's not armor, maybe?
risner 02-19-07, 10:18 AM	What about masterwork clothing? Not armor, just a masterwork cotton shirt for example. You can enchant that right, and it's not armor, maybe? No, since it would provide an Armour Bonus, why would you think it wouldn't provide an Armour Bonus?
jacobi289 02-19-07, 11:13 AM	Of course it provides an armor bonus, but is it armor? Is a masterwork cotton shirt considered armor? Does that mean for the monk to get his AC bonus, he can't wear any clothing? Maybe I'm missing something here, but the paragraph on page 40 just says "when unarmored and unencumbered." So is a masterwork shirt armor? Or for some reason, when a shirt is enchanted, the monk suddenly loses his or her ability to dodge?
Throg 02-19-07, 11:40 AM	Look in the Races of Stone book, I think it's the Gnome Twistcloth or some such, armor with no max dex and whatnot. Takes a feat to use correctly, so that's a big minus to use it over bracers of armor. For most characters Feats are a comotity you can't spare.
crimsonwolf 02-19-07, 12:35 PM	could easily just get a cloak and enchante with steel wool.....something batmanish
Tyler Do'Urden 02-19-07, 01:20 PM	Hear me out. It would only be +1, with no max DEX or armor check. It would cost around 800-1000 gp by itself...DMG p. 250, bracers of armor +1, 1000 gp. What about masterwork clothing?A vest or robe that grants an armor bonus is not armor, nor is it simply a "masterwork shirt"; it is a wondrous item, modeled after bracers of armor but designed to fill a different slot. It requires Craft Wondrous Item to make it rather than Craft Magic Arms and Armor or the Craft (armorsmithing) skill. This is one of those questions that never answers itself. You have to repost the solution in its entirety every time it comes up.
risner 02-19-07, 02:33 PM	Of course it provides an armor bonus, but is it armor? Does that mean for the monk to get his AC bonus, he can't wear any clothing? Does it provide an Armour Bonus? If yes, then it is Armour. If no, then it is not Armour. So a masterwork shirt with an enhancement to it is armour. Clothing doesn't provide Armour Bonuses, so clothing is not restrictive. Responding to Tyler's "make a bracers of armour into clothing" thread, yes, you could make a bracer shirt or vest, but it would likely cost double due to slot affinity (I didn't check, just assume), which brings into question to the OP, why do you hate the bracers of armour so much you can't just use them?
RikuKupo 02-19-07, 03:14 PM	DMG p. 250, bracers of armor +1, 1000 gp. I don't come of as a jerk at all. I was just thinking out loud, I don't really appreciate that.
CelestialBarbarian 02-19-07, 03:53 PM	could easily just get a cloak and enchante with steel wool.....something batmanish I've long wanted to have a Batmanish NPC in my campaign. The most recent versions of Batman seem to have him with monk/ninja training. Yet in the movies he wears more than just a costume, actual body armor. So I'd considered having some sort of lightweight armor, a la kevlar, that the Bat could wear and still exercise his monk/ninja skills. I've never gotten around to formally creating it, and never introduced a Batmanish character into my campaign though. (There's a vigilante PrC somewhere that's somewhat Batmanish too, but I don't recall if it had any abilities reliant upon wearing no armor. There's also some sort of investigator Prc,the name of which escapes me, which probably has no special abilities related to wearing no armor. Batman would be something like a 20th level monk/ninja, 10th level vigilante and 10th level investigator.) I think there's no problem with enchanting a shirt or some other piece of clothing to grant AC enhancement bonuses. As long as the non-magical version of the item grants no AC bonus, it's not going to be armor. I'd say that if it uses the vest or robe slot that it would fit the body affinity concept fine and not require an extra 50% to the cost. If you want, howeover, something like my envisioned (but never implemented) kevlar armor that fits like clothing but acts like armor, that's a different issues. For a cool NPC it might work out well, but I suspect that for a PC it might unbalance things in the monk's direction. As I recall, President Ford used to wear a suit vest that was actually made of kevlar or some other bullet-resistance woven material so that it looked like clothing and fit more or less like clothing. I heard, however, that it was quite a bit heavier and stiffer than a regular suit vest, rather uncomfortable to wear for any length of time. Now perhaps a young, trained adventurer wouldn't have the same problem that an older, more sedentary elected official had, but I'd bet it would be a pain just the same. Of course running around with quarter staff strapped to your back along with your backpack probably inhibits your monkish fighting style just a wee bit too. :D If you really want it, however, probably if you had some sort of light, woven armor that the monk/ninja got to treat as no armor and which granted an armor bonus to AC of only +1 you wouldn't find the multiverse collapsing around your campaign. ;)
Needle 02-19-07, 07:27 PM	is it feasable to take like.. 1 wiz/sorc level and wear a robe of the archmagi?
ravenshrike 02-19-07, 07:33 PM	There's the gnome battle cloak. But you need a feat to use it.
primemover003 02-19-07, 07:46 PM	I'll second risner's question... why don't you like Bracers of Armor??? You know that bracers don't have to BE metal or leather cuffs, they could be silk wrappings with holy script written across them or fine links of chain connecting tiny crystals that glow emanate force. It's really just flavor. The only balancing factors are body slots, cost, and class ability restrictions. You could wear a shirt that looks like whatever you're getting your idea from as you could easily enchant Monks Robes. Robes traditionally hold Armor bonuses (robe of the magi) and are something a Monk could easily wear. But as noted it's not going to be "Armor" it'll be a "Wonderous Item."
3DJutsu 02-19-07, 07:46 PM	DMG p. 250, bracers of armor +1, 1000 gp. Ba-zing! I don't come of as a jerk at all. I was just thinking out loud, I don't really appreciate that. Chill, you said 800-1000g, he gave you an answer, even if it was in big, bold letters... Also try asking your DM to houserule either padded or gnomish twistcloth as suitable 'monk armour'
PhaedrusXY 02-19-07, 08:04 PM	Does it provide an Armour Bonus? If yes, then it is Armour. If no, then it is not Armour.Bracers of Armor provide an armor bonus, and are definitely not armor, since monks can use them and not lose their class AC bonus. Mage Armor also provides an armor bonus, but is not armor.
risner 02-19-07, 08:22 PM	Bracers of Armor provide an armor bonus, and are definitely not armor, since monks can use them and not lose their class AC bonus. Mage Armor also provides an armor bonus, but is not armor. Aw come on, you know what I meant. I was responding to the poster that said "my cloth shirt is enchanted with an armour bonus, that isn't armour now". I needed him to understand if it wasn't a Bracers of Armour and it provided an Armour Bonus, then it is armour. I even said what you just said (essentially) in the post you are replying to. If your post was to reinforce the "why doesn't the OP like bracers of armour", then hey, ignore this post.
Willie the Duck 02-19-07, 11:47 PM	Responding to Tyler's "make a bracers of armour into clothing" thread, yes, you could make a bracer shirt or vest, but it would likely cost double due to slot affinity (I didn't check, just assume), which brings into question to the OP, why do you hate the bracers of armour so much you can't just use them? Says in DMG to charge this (actually 1.5 I think, double is for slotless) if moving to a slot which 'doesn't make sense' (like bracers of intellect, boots of armor, etc.). Vestment of armor makes sense to me. I'd just declare it a no cost variant (but good luck finding one in a treasure pile. jacobi289, what you are missing is that there is no such thing as a "masterwork cotton shirt" in the system. Thus, there are no rules for what to do with one. If you're asking as what should happen if you decide to make one, well, then we can offer out opinions. Here's mine: If it acts like a type of armor (can it be spiked, be made out of special materials that armor can be made out of, or have any other trait specific to armor), and/or can be enchanted with an enhancement bonus to it's armor bonus of 0 with the feat craft magical arms/armor, then it is armor, and a monk cannot wear it without losing their bonuses. On the other hand, if it is a peice of equipment that takes up the shirt/vest/vestment body slot, then it is a barcers of armor which has been modified to use a different potential magic item slot.
Tyler Do'Urden 02-20-07, 01:13 AM	I don't come of as a jerk at all.I never said you did.
CelestialBarbarian 02-20-07, 01:23 AM	[size="7"]I never said you did. Why did you use such a large font? It's really hard on my tired old eyes (which is why I reduced it to normal size when quoting it).