Armor When To Go Light Or Heavy? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Armor When To Go Light Or Heavy? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
gardenstatesamurai
02-28-06, 04:50 PM I was trying to figure out when it's best to strap on the heaviest stuff you can find, and when you're better off with light or medium for mobility. The sites tips and tactics suggest light for wilderness based adventures as an example. I'm trying to think of other times and situations, particulary if you have a fighter/rogue, fighter/ranger, etc...
draconic_swine
02-28-06, 06:01 PM Well, in the fighter/rogue and fighter/ranger examples, if you're doing any scouting, wearing the light armour is a must. When you know you're going into a big showdown with a tough enemy and have time to prepare, then I'd switch over to the heavy armour.

Other times are more tricky, however. It really depends on how much climbing, jumping, balancing, and the like you guys do in a dungeon crawl. If those are common things, then you're probably better off in the light armour. If, however, your standard dungeon crawl is just walking around (and you're not counted upon to do the scouting), then keep the heavy armour on. Finally, if there's another tank in the party, you could probably get away with wearing the light armour more often. I guess it really depends on whether your role is more of the tank or the scout.
Tony Vargas
02-28-06, 06:03 PM A big determining factor is your DEX, you want armor that lets you use your full DEX mod, so if you have a 16+ DEX, you'll want to avoid the heavy stuff, anyway, since your AC will be very nearly as good in medium or even light, and your touch AC is better.

If you don't have much DEX, you want the heavy stuff for the AC. If you need mobility outdoors, a mount is a very real option. Lighter armors might be worthwhile for sleeping (yes, a chain shirt 'knighty'), rudimentary stealth, and faster movement - but it's a substantial sacrifice in terms of defense.
Waterhammer
02-28-06, 08:19 PM Without any magic enhancements; lets take a look at how it adds up.

Padded armor and outragous Dex =AC 19
Leather armor and the same crazy Dex =AC 18
Studded leather armor gives the same max AC as leather
Chain shirt is again the same as leather armor. (Max AC 18)

Which brings us to medium armor.

Hide armor, same crazy high Dex, but now your AC is 17
Scale armor, and chainmail are both also AC 17
The breastplate is a bit better with a max possible AC of 18

Now to the heavy armors

Splint armor, if you have any Dex at all this armor is worse than useless with a max AC of 16 all from the armor.
Banded armor gets us a max AC of 17
Half-plate drops to AC 17 again nullifying your Dex bonus, if any.
Which brings us to full plate; amazingly enough you can equal the protection provided by padded armor and the 28 Dex score by wearing this armor.

Of course other factors count in on this. Such as at 1st level and quit a while after you are not likely to have a 28 Dex. There is also the armor check penalty, and the flatfooted AC to think about.

To me it seems best to go with the heaviest armor you can that allows you to use your full Dex bonus, and take levels in a class that allows the uncanny dodge ability.

Usually a chain shirt.
Lael
02-28-06, 11:20 PM I agree with the others, it usally comes down to what Dex bonus you have to what armour you want, but the "style" of character you want will also determine your armour to a large factor.

My figher/cleric that I currently play was designed to be an obvious tank, but at the time of creation they didn't have enough money for full plate, so I went with a breastplate as that was more the obvious choice at the time because of her dex bonus allowing the full potential of it over anything else besides full plate. Even though I gave them the Endurance feat to still sleep in medium armour, I also have the character a chain shirt for sleeping as basically who wants to sleep in a breastplate unless you have to, but you don't want to leave yourself armourless when woken up at night so hence the chain shirt.

Now, she has a set of +2 full plate, but when we first got the armour, it took me a little while before I decided on the armour because I had a set of +3 breastplate by then as well, and there wasn't any difference in AC between, but it was more the feel of the armour, that finally decided my decision into wearing it (and trust me, it fits her so well now its scary). But she still doesn't have the highest AC in the group because of the rogue type characters having the lighter magical armour with the high DC's.

When I spoke to my DM about this once when I said I was a bit worried about having a lower AC than some members in the party when she was wearing plate mail, he made the good point of that the rest of the group prefer dodging, spinning, jumping out of the way of attacks not to get hit, wheras characters in full plate tend to rely on their armour more to stop attacks. Which is very true of my character, having high HP's and a gorget of fortification, she prefers to take the odd blow to get in her attacks back and hopefully felling the bug nasty before they can get too many hits in.
Father Dale
03-01-06, 02:37 AM Some other things to consider:

You can't use the tumble skill in heavy armor. So anybody with lots of ranks in tumble would probably prefer not to wear heavy armor.

You can't use the Evasion or Improved Evasion abilities in armor heavier than light (unless you get the ability that specifically permits this, such as the Evasion-like ability of the Divine Oracle that has no armor restriction.) So a rogue or ranger might prefer not to wear medium or heavy armor so that they can keep their Evasion ability.

The Armor Check Penalty can be pretty harsh with heavier armors, so characters that rely on skills subject to Armor Check Penalties, such as stealthy characters or agile characters, would probably prefer armors that didn't have a real big ACP.

Medium and Heavy armor restrict movement and slow characters down, so a character that relies on its mobility, such as somebody with Spring Attack, might not want to lose any speed.

Dexterous characters might prefer a lighter armor to a heavier one, even if it means a lower overall AC, since your Dexterity bonus to AC applies to more types of attacks than an armor bonus to AC (i.e. touch attacks).

So some characters might take into consideration such factors beofre worrying about maximizing their overall AC. I'd generally prefer to have Evasion than say a +2 armor bonus.

I had a chracter in a game recently who was a rogue 3/fighter 2/barbarian 1/Holy liberator 6 with 12 dex. I started him with a suit of full plate. In the adventure, it became apparent rather quicly that the full plate was doing very litle in protecting against attacks. I eventually took it off and used some bracers of armor +2 instead since I could make use of the barbarians extra movement speed and the rogues evasion ability. My AC went down a good bit, but I evaded some area attacks and no attack hit me that would have missed had I worn the armor, so it was well worth the trade off.
ibayboy
03-01-06, 05:18 AM :weep: You can't use the tumble skill in heavy armor. So anybody with lots of ranks in tumble would probably prefer not to wear heavy armor.

All the medium armors in the PHB stop you using tumble too :weep:
Father Dale
03-01-06, 10:44 AM :weep:

All the medium armors in the PHB stop you using tumble too :weep:

Ah right. Thanks, I missed that. It also can't be used if you are carrying more than a light load.

The text actually says you can't use tumble if "if your speed has been reduced by armor, excess equipment, or loot." So for most characters this would be medium or heavy armor, or carrying more than a light load.

Although i guess dwarves could tumble in medium or heavy armor or if carrying more than a light load since their speed would not be reduced under those conditions!
Rulebook
03-01-06, 12:52 PM a dwarf can tumble in med or heavy armors...

ive always found my determiner to be even more simple than dex. movement. are you going to be heavily magic-ed or mounted for most of your career? then go for the biggest, heaviest most exotic stuff you can find (mithral mountian plate comes to mind)

if not stick with light armor 100% of the way (or armor that COUNTS as light... halfweight mithral mountain plate comes to mind... haha)
runestar
03-01-06, 09:31 PM Here's a quick teaser... :)

Mithral Shirt: This extremely light chain shirt is made of very fine mithral links. Speed while wearing a mithral shirt is 30 feet for Medium creatures, or 20 feet for Small. The armor has an arcane spell failure chance of 10%, a maximum Dexterity bonus of +6, and no armor check penalty. It is considered light armor and weighs 10 pounds.
No aura (nonmagical); Price 1,100 gp.

Does this mean that a dwarf wearing a mithril shirt has a speed of 30 ft rather than 20? :D
draconic_swine
03-01-06, 11:27 PM Does this mean that a dwarf wearing a mithril shirt has a speed of 30 ft rather than 20? :D

For munchkins or easily swayed DMs, yes ;)
Wyrd Bearer
03-02-06, 12:30 AM For munchkins or easily swayed DMs, yes ;)I suppose this means I'm neither a munchkin nor an easily swayed DM. This abuse has never even crossed my mind until I saw it mentioned on these boards a while ago. The idea of someone actually using this to increase the speed of a dwarf completely boggles my mind.

Anyway, as people have said, unless you have a good reason to wear full plate (i.e. you're already a slow bus with the Dexterity of a brick or you're a dwarf who really don't have any disadvantages in heavy amrour beyond the wieght and check penalty), than light armour is really the way to go. Its a basic armour proficiency (so classes not proficient in any armour only need to spend 1 feat as opposed to 3 to properly use it), most light armours have a low enough spell failure chance to be worn negligibly by arcanists and you don't have to spend time changing armour for the night and in the morning.
Keenath
03-02-06, 10:57 AM I've never seen any real benefit to medium armor. If I'm building a heavy hitter, I want full plate as soon as possible. If I'm a skirmisher, I want a mithral shirt as soon as possible, which usually happens by third level -- the best light-armor protection and no check penalty!

I suppose a breastplate could be good for some characters -- particularly a mithral breastplate -- but I have trouble justifying the cost difference between a mithral breastplate and a mithral chain shirt, when it's a mere +1 AC and -1 armor check.
Wyrd Bearer
03-02-06, 11:32 AM Mithril tumblers breastplate (medium exotic armour from RoS) has a base of +5 to AC and a max Dex of +6, for a total of +11 AC. Since the armour check penalty is almost negligible at that point, not having the exotic armour proficiency to properly use it is almost a non-issue. Plus, mid game, its a bit easier to have a Dex of 22 rather than a 28 in order to take full advantage of the protection the armour affords. Of course, this is still subpar, as it IS exotic armour and needs to be mithril to be effective (otherwise its just another +9 armour).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gardenstatesamurai 02-28-06, 04:50 PM	I was trying to figure out when it's best to strap on the heaviest stuff you can find, and when you're better off with light or medium for mobility. The sites tips and tactics suggest light for wilderness based adventures as an example. I'm trying to think of other times and situations, particulary if you have a fighter/rogue, fighter/ranger, etc...
draconic_swine 02-28-06, 06:01 PM	Well, in the fighter/rogue and fighter/ranger examples, if you're doing any scouting, wearing the light armour is a must. When you know you're going into a big showdown with a tough enemy and have time to prepare, then I'd switch over to the heavy armour. Other times are more tricky, however. It really depends on how much climbing, jumping, balancing, and the like you guys do in a dungeon crawl. If those are common things, then you're probably better off in the light armour. If, however, your standard dungeon crawl is just walking around (and you're not counted upon to do the scouting), then keep the heavy armour on. Finally, if there's another tank in the party, you could probably get away with wearing the light armour more often. I guess it really depends on whether your role is more of the tank or the scout.
Tony Vargas 02-28-06, 06:03 PM	A big determining factor is your DEX, you want armor that lets you use your full DEX mod, so if you have a 16+ DEX, you'll want to avoid the heavy stuff, anyway, since your AC will be very nearly as good in medium or even light, and your touch AC is better. If you don't have much DEX, you want the heavy stuff for the AC. If you need mobility outdoors, a mount is a very real option. Lighter armors might be worthwhile for sleeping (yes, a chain shirt 'knighty'), rudimentary stealth, and faster movement - but it's a substantial sacrifice in terms of defense.
Waterhammer 02-28-06, 08:19 PM	Without any magic enhancements; lets take a look at how it adds up. Padded armor and outragous Dex =AC 19 Leather armor and the same crazy Dex =AC 18 Studded leather armor gives the same max AC as leather Chain shirt is again the same as leather armor. (Max AC 18) Which brings us to medium armor. Hide armor, same crazy high Dex, but now your AC is 17 Scale armor, and chainmail are both also AC 17 The breastplate is a bit better with a max possible AC of 18 Now to the heavy armors Splint armor, if you have any Dex at all this armor is worse than useless with a max AC of 16 all from the armor. Banded armor gets us a max AC of 17 Half-plate drops to AC 17 again nullifying your Dex bonus, if any. Which brings us to full plate; amazingly enough you can equal the protection provided by padded armor and the 28 Dex score by wearing this armor. Of course other factors count in on this. Such as at 1st level and quit a while after you are not likely to have a 28 Dex. There is also the armor check penalty, and the flatfooted AC to think about. To me it seems best to go with the heaviest armor you can that allows you to use your full Dex bonus, and take levels in a class that allows the uncanny dodge ability. Usually a chain shirt.
Lael 02-28-06, 11:20 PM	I agree with the others, it usally comes down to what Dex bonus you have to what armour you want, but the "style" of character you want will also determine your armour to a large factor. My figher/cleric that I currently play was designed to be an obvious tank, but at the time of creation they didn't have enough money for full plate, so I went with a breastplate as that was more the obvious choice at the time because of her dex bonus allowing the full potential of it over anything else besides full plate. Even though I gave them the Endurance feat to still sleep in medium armour, I also have the character a chain shirt for sleeping as basically who wants to sleep in a breastplate unless you have to, but you don't want to leave yourself armourless when woken up at night so hence the chain shirt. Now, she has a set of +2 full plate, but when we first got the armour, it took me a little while before I decided on the armour because I had a set of +3 breastplate by then as well, and there wasn't any difference in AC between, but it was more the feel of the armour, that finally decided my decision into wearing it (and trust me, it fits her so well now its scary). But she still doesn't have the highest AC in the group because of the rogue type characters having the lighter magical armour with the high DC's. When I spoke to my DM about this once when I said I was a bit worried about having a lower AC than some members in the party when she was wearing plate mail, he made the good point of that the rest of the group prefer dodging, spinning, jumping out of the way of attacks not to get hit, wheras characters in full plate tend to rely on their armour more to stop attacks. Which is very true of my character, having high HP's and a gorget of fortification, she prefers to take the odd blow to get in her attacks back and hopefully felling the bug nasty before they can get too many hits in.
Father Dale 03-01-06, 02:37 AM	Some other things to consider: You can't use the tumble skill in heavy armor. So anybody with lots of ranks in tumble would probably prefer not to wear heavy armor. You can't use the Evasion or Improved Evasion abilities in armor heavier than light (unless you get the ability that specifically permits this, such as the Evasion-like ability of the Divine Oracle that has no armor restriction.) So a rogue or ranger might prefer not to wear medium or heavy armor so that they can keep their Evasion ability. The Armor Check Penalty can be pretty harsh with heavier armors, so characters that rely on skills subject to Armor Check Penalties, such as stealthy characters or agile characters, would probably prefer armors that didn't have a real big ACP. Medium and Heavy armor restrict movement and slow characters down, so a character that relies on its mobility, such as somebody with Spring Attack, might not want to lose any speed. Dexterous characters might prefer a lighter armor to a heavier one, even if it means a lower overall AC, since your Dexterity bonus to AC applies to more types of attacks than an armor bonus to AC (i.e. touch attacks). So some characters might take into consideration such factors beofre worrying about maximizing their overall AC. I'd generally prefer to have Evasion than say a +2 armor bonus. I had a chracter in a game recently who was a rogue 3/fighter 2/barbarian 1/Holy liberator 6 with 12 dex. I started him with a suit of full plate. In the adventure, it became apparent rather quicly that the full plate was doing very litle in protecting against attacks. I eventually took it off and used some bracers of armor +2 instead since I could make use of the barbarians extra movement speed and the rogues evasion ability. My AC went down a good bit, but I evaded some area attacks and no attack hit me that would have missed had I worn the armor, so it was well worth the trade off.
ibayboy 03-01-06, 05:18 AM	:weep: You can't use the tumble skill in heavy armor. So anybody with lots of ranks in tumble would probably prefer not to wear heavy armor. All the medium armors in the PHB stop you using tumble too :weep:
Father Dale 03-01-06, 10:44 AM	:weep: All the medium armors in the PHB stop you using tumble too :weep: Ah right. Thanks, I missed that. It also can't be used if you are carrying more than a light load. The text actually says you can't use tumble if "if your speed has been reduced by armor, excess equipment, or loot." So for most characters this would be medium or heavy armor, or carrying more than a light load. Although i guess dwarves could tumble in medium or heavy armor or if carrying more than a light load since their speed would not be reduced under those conditions!
Rulebook 03-01-06, 12:52 PM	a dwarf can tumble in med or heavy armors... ive always found my determiner to be even more simple than dex. movement. are you going to be heavily magic-ed or mounted for most of your career? then go for the biggest, heaviest most exotic stuff you can find (mithral mountian plate comes to mind) if not stick with light armor 100% of the way (or armor that COUNTS as light... halfweight mithral mountain plate comes to mind... haha)
runestar 03-01-06, 09:31 PM	Here's a quick teaser... :) Mithral Shirt: This extremely light chain shirt is made of very fine mithral links. Speed while wearing a mithral shirt is 30 feet for Medium creatures, or 20 feet for Small. The armor has an arcane spell failure chance of 10%, a maximum Dexterity bonus of +6, and no armor check penalty. It is considered light armor and weighs 10 pounds. No aura (nonmagical); Price 1,100 gp. Does this mean that a dwarf wearing a mithril shirt has a speed of 30 ft rather than 20? :D
draconic_swine 03-01-06, 11:27 PM	Does this mean that a dwarf wearing a mithril shirt has a speed of 30 ft rather than 20? :D For munchkins or easily swayed DMs, yes ;)
Wyrd Bearer 03-02-06, 12:30 AM	For munchkins or easily swayed DMs, yes ;)I suppose this means I'm neither a munchkin nor an easily swayed DM. This abuse has never even crossed my mind until I saw it mentioned on these boards a while ago. The idea of someone actually using this to increase the speed of a dwarf completely boggles my mind. Anyway, as people have said, unless you have a good reason to wear full plate (i.e. you're already a slow bus with the Dexterity of a brick or you're a dwarf who really don't have any disadvantages in heavy amrour beyond the wieght and check penalty), than light armour is really the way to go. Its a basic armour proficiency (so classes not proficient in any armour only need to spend 1 feat as opposed to 3 to properly use it), most light armours have a low enough spell failure chance to be worn negligibly by arcanists and you don't have to spend time changing armour for the night and in the morning.
Keenath 03-02-06, 10:57 AM	I've never seen any real benefit to medium armor. If I'm building a heavy hitter, I want full plate as soon as possible. If I'm a skirmisher, I want a mithral shirt as soon as possible, which usually happens by third level -- the best light-armor protection and no check penalty! I suppose a breastplate could be good for some characters -- particularly a mithral breastplate -- but I have trouble justifying the cost difference between a mithral breastplate and a mithral chain shirt, when it's a mere +1 AC and -1 armor check.
Wyrd Bearer 03-02-06, 11:32 AM	Mithril tumblers breastplate (medium exotic armour from RoS) has a base of +5 to AC and a max Dex of +6, for a total of +11 AC. Since the armour check penalty is almost negligible at that point, not having the exotic armour proficiency to properly use it is almost a non-issue. Plus, mid game, its a bit easier to have a Dex of 22 rather than a 28 in order to take full advantage of the protection the armour affords. Of course, this is still subpar, as it IS exotic armour and needs to be mithril to be effective (otherwise its just another +9 armour).