Armors, Materials and Movement Speeds [Archive] - Wizards Community

Armors, Materials and Movement Speeds [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Luck Rider
10-25-04, 02:29 AM Hey, I'm looking for clarification on an issue that recently arose:

If you have a Heavy-class armor modified by its material to be considered Medium-class, is your movement speed still reduced?

Example: I'm planning a Centaur Fighter in an upcoming non-standard game. A Centaurs base movement speed is 50 ft, while wearing full plate, its speed is reduced to 35 ft. Now my question is that if I pay the extra 9,000 gp for mithral full plate (which changes it to a medium-class armor) will my movement rate be classed as medium (50ft) or heavy (35ft)?

I'm in a Catch-22 here cause I'm planning for a Charger character so speed is paramount, but I need all the AC I can get (that and the prime inspiration for this character is a portrait of a centaur in full plate, but I digress)

Anywho, I'm trying to maximize movement speed and AC as much as possible, so if the mithral armor reduces speed, any other ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
Vahenir
10-25-04, 04:38 AM From the SRD 3.5:

Mithral Full Plate of Speed: As a free action, the wearer of this fine set of +1 mithral full plate can activate it, enabling her to act as though affected by a haste spell for up to 10 rounds each day. The duration of the haste effect need not be consecutive rounds.

Speed while wearing a suit of mithral full plate is 20 feet for Medium creatures, or 15 feet for Small. The armor has an arcane spell failure chance of 25%, a maximum Dexterity bonus of +3, and an armor check penalty of –3. It is considered medium armor and weighs 25 pounds.

Faint transmutation; CL 5th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, haste; Price 26,500 gp.

Mithral Shirt: This extremely light chain shirt is made of very fine mithral links. Speed while wearing a mithral shirt is 30 feet for Medium creatures, or 20 feet for Small. The armor has an arcane spell failure chance of 10%, a maximum Dexterity bonus of +6, and no armor check penalty. It is considered light armor and weighs 10 pounds.

No aura (nonmagical); Price 1,100 gp.

Note that both of these items are made of Mithral and both have decreased speed.

My suggestion - Dex boosting items and light armour.
Wolf72
10-25-04, 10:18 AM Both Heavy and Medium armor reduce speed for the centaur ...

if you have heavy armor made of mithral you can do a full run at 4x instead of 3x.

so it's move 35 for heavy and medium armors, full move (50) for light or no armors.
CuCulain42
10-25-04, 11:59 AM From the SRD 3.5:Mithral Shirt: This extremely light chain shirt is made of very fine mithral links. Speed while wearing a mithral shirt is 30 feet for Medium creatures, or 20 feet for Small.
Note that both of these items are made of Mithral and both have decreased speed.
Isn't speed for a medium character 30 and a small 20?
tarkin
10-25-04, 01:37 PM Your question is backwards.

There is NO way to "modify" an armor from Heavy to Plate.

Special materials do NOT do that.

They do however do exactly what you want them to do: let you move as if you were wearing a Medium armor.

But if you were say proficient with all Medium Armor but not with Heavy, you would NOT be considered proficient with Mithral Platemail. While it lets you move as if it were Medium Armor, it is still considered Heavy Armor and to use it you must be proficient with Heavy Armor.
Doomhawk
10-25-04, 06:34 PM Vahenir and Wolf72 are correct. The speed of an armor is a property of the armor itself, which is why the speed is listed individually for each armor instead of a blanket statement (such as, "Medium armors have a speed of 20/15"). Regardless of whether the armor is light, medium, or heavy, the speed remains the same.
OrbitalB
10-25-04, 08:48 PM The sentence they use, "one catagory lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations", is a poor choice of words on the writers part, as 'other limitations' could mean just about anything.

So speak with your DM as to what he groups in that catagory.

Many (most?) DMs simply have that aspect of mithral apply to a very short list of abilities;

- barbarian fast movement
- bard arcane spell failure reduction
- ranger combat style, evasion
- rogue evasion, improved evasion

But many (most?) do not have that feature apply to;

- proficiency requirements
- armor speed
Vahenir
10-26-04, 12:15 AM Isn't speed for a medium character 30 and a small 20?

Yes. I don't know why I used the Mithral shirt example along with the plate example... oh well. Doesn't matter.
Mitchell
10-26-04, 12:49 AM Yes. I don't know why I used the Mithral shirt example along with the plate example... oh well. Doesn't matter.

I'm not sure which side of the discussion you are coming down on... Mithral heavy armor allows you to move as though you were wearing medium armor. If memory serves, this only affects run speed, making it 4X instead of 3X. Base movement is the same for medium and heavy armor, so it makes no difference there.

Luck Rider, figure out which way you want to go... Either a breastplate or chainmail made of mithral, which provides maximum base armor value for medium armor while not hindering movement, or mithral full plate, which gives you the best AC but reduces your base speed somewhat.
For a centaur, there are also magical horseshoes which may help you a bit, so you may want to check some of those out.
OrbitalB
10-26-04, 02:19 AM Either a breastplate or chainmail made of mithral, which provides maximum base armor value for medium armor while not hindering movement,

By which I assume you are refering to the base speed of the armor. And this relys on the DM interpreting 'for purposes of movement and other limitations' to include the speed of the armor, which many DMs will not.
Vahenir
10-26-04, 02:35 AM I'm not sure which side of the discussion you are coming down on... Mithral heavy armor allows you to move as though you were wearing medium armor. If memory serves, this only affects run speed, making it 4X instead of 3X. Base movement is the same for medium and heavy armor, so it makes no difference there.

My point with that was simply that making full plate out of mithral wasn't going to increase your base speed at all.

Anywho.. by the RAW:

Mithral: Mithral is a very rare silvery, glistening metal that is lighter than iron but just as hard. When worked like steel, it becomes a wonderful material from which to create armor and is occasionally used for other items as well. Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonus is increased by 2, and armor check penalties are lessened by 3 (to a minimum of 0).

Heavy armours are treated as medium. So you're out of luck if you want heavy armour with a movement speed of light armour. It won't matter.

However... medium armour is treated as light and if I ran games by the RAW, then I'd say that might, depending on the style of armour, increase the armour's base speed too. Talk to your DM about it.

You're probably still better off with magical horseshoes, light armour and things like that, though. But if you have a particular concept in mind that you really like.. talk to your DM about allowing Medium armour to have 30ft base speed if made of Mithral.
Mirtek
10-26-04, 08:19 AM By which I assume you are refering to the base speed of the armor. And this relys on the DM interpreting 'for purposes of movement and other limitations' to include the speed of the armor, which many DMs will not. What else should "movement" refer to?

If your wearing a mithral chainmail (=light) your speed is 30 feet (if you're a human)

If your wearing normal chainmail (=medium) your speed is 20 feet (if you're a human)
OrbitalB
10-26-04, 09:25 AM What else should "movement" refer to?

A short list would be; flying, climbing, running, jumping, swimming, and whatever other form of movement you can dream up... but certainly 'character's speed while wearing armor' is not the definition of movement.

They give a very good example of movement in the DMG on pg.284, under Mithral, when they say "(for example, whether a barbarian can use her fast movement ability while wearing the armor or not)".

Because the Mithral section was not written with more care, we are left with some rather unclear statements;

- what they want to fall under the umbrella of 'movement and other limitations'
- whether the line "heavy armor are threated as medium, and medium armors... etc)" refers to the line preceding it, or rather is a stand-alone rule regarding all mithral armor.

Talk to your DM before you come into the game with any preconceptions.

Completely irrelevant side-note: IMC, I let mithral armor also lower the speed rating of the armor.
OrbitalB
10-26-04, 09:36 AM Vahenir and Wolf72 are correct. The speed of an armor is a property of the armor itself, which is why the speed is listed individually for each armor instead of a blanket statement (such as, "Medium armors have a speed of 20/15"). Regardless of whether the armor is light, medium, or heavy, the speed remains the same.

Although, as it should be clear by my posts on the subject by now, I believe that they fumbled the Mithral section sufficiently enough to leave far too much to interpretation... it should be pointed out that PHB pg.147 shows all armors of a given category as having the same speed.
tarkin
10-26-04, 10:45 AM The sentence they use, "one catagory lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations", is a poor choice of words on the writers part, as 'other limitations' could mean just about anything.

So speak with your DM as to what he groups in that catagory.

Many (most?) DMs simply have that aspect of mithral apply to a very short list of abilities;

- barbarian fast movement
- bard arcane spell failure reduction
- ranger combat style, evasion
- rogue evasion, improved evasion

But many (most?) do not have that feature apply to;

- proficiency requirements
- armor speed

Like many people that claim "most DM's do it this way", you have it wierd. You have not done a survey, you choose to interepet it one way, asked around and at least one person agreed with you, so you think most people do it that way.

The Sage discussed this. According to him Mithral affects the following:

- armor speed.
- barbarian fast movement

It does NOT work on the following because they have nothing to do with movement limitations.

- proficiency requirements
- bard arcane spell failure reduction (aside from the 10%)
- ranger combat style, evasion
- rogue evasion, improved evasion
OrbitalB
10-26-04, 10:50 AM Like many people that claim "most DM's do it this way", you have it wierd. You have not done a survey, you choose to interepet it one way, asked around and at least one person agreed with you, so you think most people do it that way.

Of course your right, you're psychic and know exactly what i have and have not done.

And I said "Many" and followed it with a 'most' in parens with a question mark... please don't misquote me again, i don't like that.

The Sage discussed this. According to him Mithral affects the following:

Link, please and thanks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Luck Rider 10-25-04, 02:29 AM	Hey, I'm looking for clarification on an issue that recently arose: If you have a Heavy-class armor modified by its material to be considered Medium-class, is your movement speed still reduced? Example: I'm planning a Centaur Fighter in an upcoming non-standard game. A Centaurs base movement speed is 50 ft, while wearing full plate, its speed is reduced to 35 ft. Now my question is that if I pay the extra 9,000 gp for mithral full plate (which changes it to a medium-class armor) will my movement rate be classed as medium (50ft) or heavy (35ft)? I'm in a Catch-22 here cause I'm planning for a Charger character so speed is paramount, but I need all the AC I can get (that and the prime inspiration for this character is a portrait of a centaur in full plate, but I digress) Anywho, I'm trying to maximize movement speed and AC as much as possible, so if the mithral armor reduces speed, any other ideas would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Vahenir 10-25-04, 04:38 AM	From the SRD 3.5: Mithral Full Plate of Speed: As a free action, the wearer of this fine set of +1 mithral full plate can activate it, enabling her to act as though affected by a haste spell for up to 10 rounds each day. The duration of the haste effect need not be consecutive rounds. Speed while wearing a suit of mithral full plate is 20 feet for Medium creatures, or 15 feet for Small. The armor has an arcane spell failure chance of 25%, a maximum Dexterity bonus of +3, and an armor check penalty of –3. It is considered medium armor and weighs 25 pounds. Faint transmutation; CL 5th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, haste; Price 26,500 gp. Mithral Shirt: This extremely light chain shirt is made of very fine mithral links. Speed while wearing a mithral shirt is 30 feet for Medium creatures, or 20 feet for Small. The armor has an arcane spell failure chance of 10%, a maximum Dexterity bonus of +6, and no armor check penalty. It is considered light armor and weighs 10 pounds. No aura (nonmagical); Price 1,100 gp. Note that both of these items are made of Mithral and both have decreased speed. My suggestion - Dex boosting items and light armour.
Wolf72 10-25-04, 10:18 AM	Both Heavy and Medium armor reduce speed for the centaur ... if you have heavy armor made of mithral you can do a full run at 4x instead of 3x. so it's move 35 for heavy and medium armors, full move (50) for light or no armors.
CuCulain42 10-25-04, 11:59 AM	From the SRD 3.5:Mithral Shirt: This extremely light chain shirt is made of very fine mithral links. Speed while wearing a mithral shirt is 30 feet for Medium creatures, or 20 feet for Small. Note that both of these items are made of Mithral and both have decreased speed. Isn't speed for a medium character 30 and a small 20?
tarkin 10-25-04, 01:37 PM	Your question is backwards. There is NO way to "modify" an armor from Heavy to Plate. Special materials do NOT do that. They do however do exactly what you want them to do: let you move as if you were wearing a Medium armor. But if you were say proficient with all Medium Armor but not with Heavy, you would NOT be considered proficient with Mithral Platemail. While it lets you move as if it were Medium Armor, it is still considered Heavy Armor and to use it you must be proficient with Heavy Armor.
Doomhawk 10-25-04, 06:34 PM	Vahenir and Wolf72 are correct. The speed of an armor is a property of the armor itself, which is why the speed is listed individually for each armor instead of a blanket statement (such as, "Medium armors have a speed of 20/15"). Regardless of whether the armor is light, medium, or heavy, the speed remains the same.
OrbitalB 10-25-04, 08:48 PM	The sentence they use, "one catagory lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations", is a poor choice of words on the writers part, as 'other limitations' could mean just about anything. So speak with your DM as to what he groups in that catagory. Many (most?) DMs simply have that aspect of mithral apply to a very short list of abilities; - barbarian fast movement - bard arcane spell failure reduction - ranger combat style, evasion - rogue evasion, improved evasion But many (most?) do not have that feature apply to; - proficiency requirements - armor speed
Vahenir 10-26-04, 12:15 AM	Isn't speed for a medium character 30 and a small 20? Yes. I don't know why I used the Mithral shirt example along with the plate example... oh well. Doesn't matter.
Mitchell 10-26-04, 12:49 AM	Yes. I don't know why I used the Mithral shirt example along with the plate example... oh well. Doesn't matter. I'm not sure which side of the discussion you are coming down on... Mithral heavy armor allows you to move as though you were wearing medium armor. If memory serves, this only affects run speed, making it 4X instead of 3X. Base movement is the same for medium and heavy armor, so it makes no difference there. Luck Rider, figure out which way you want to go... Either a breastplate or chainmail made of mithral, which provides maximum base armor value for medium armor while not hindering movement, or mithral full plate, which gives you the best AC but reduces your base speed somewhat. For a centaur, there are also magical horseshoes which may help you a bit, so you may want to check some of those out.
OrbitalB 10-26-04, 02:19 AM	Either a breastplate or chainmail made of mithral, which provides maximum base armor value for medium armor while not hindering movement, By which I assume you are refering to the base speed of the armor. And this relys on the DM interpreting 'for purposes of movement and other limitations' to include the speed of the armor, which many DMs will not.
Vahenir 10-26-04, 02:35 AM	I'm not sure which side of the discussion you are coming down on... Mithral heavy armor allows you to move as though you were wearing medium armor. If memory serves, this only affects run speed, making it 4X instead of 3X. Base movement is the same for medium and heavy armor, so it makes no difference there. My point with that was simply that making full plate out of mithral wasn't going to increase your base speed at all. Anywho.. by the RAW: Mithral: Mithral is a very rare silvery, glistening metal that is lighter than iron but just as hard. When worked like steel, it becomes a wonderful material from which to create armor and is occasionally used for other items as well. Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonus is increased by 2, and armor check penalties are lessened by 3 (to a minimum of 0). Heavy armours are treated as medium. So you're out of luck if you want heavy armour with a movement speed of light armour. It won't matter. However... medium armour is treated as light and if I ran games by the RAW, then I'd say that might, depending on the style of armour, increase the armour's base speed too. Talk to your DM about it. You're probably still better off with magical horseshoes, light armour and things like that, though. But if you have a particular concept in mind that you really like.. talk to your DM about allowing Medium armour to have 30ft base speed if made of Mithral.
Mirtek 10-26-04, 08:19 AM	By which I assume you are refering to the base speed of the armor. And this relys on the DM interpreting 'for purposes of movement and other limitations' to include the speed of the armor, which many DMs will not. What else should "movement" refer to? If your wearing a mithral chainmail (=light) your speed is 30 feet (if you're a human) If your wearing normal chainmail (=medium) your speed is 20 feet (if you're a human)
OrbitalB 10-26-04, 09:25 AM	What else should "movement" refer to? A short list would be; flying, climbing, running, jumping, swimming, and whatever other form of movement you can dream up... but certainly 'character's speed while wearing armor' is not the definition of movement. They give a very good example of movement in the DMG on pg.284, under Mithral, when they say "(for example, whether a barbarian can use her fast movement ability while wearing the armor or not)". Because the Mithral section was not written with more care, we are left with some rather unclear statements; - what they want to fall under the umbrella of 'movement and other limitations' - whether the line "heavy armor are threated as medium, and medium armors... etc)" refers to the line preceding it, or rather is a stand-alone rule regarding all mithral armor. Talk to your DM before you come into the game with any preconceptions. Completely irrelevant side-note: IMC, I let mithral armor also lower the speed rating of the armor.
OrbitalB 10-26-04, 09:36 AM	Vahenir and Wolf72 are correct. The speed of an armor is a property of the armor itself, which is why the speed is listed individually for each armor instead of a blanket statement (such as, "Medium armors have a speed of 20/15"). Regardless of whether the armor is light, medium, or heavy, the speed remains the same. Although, as it should be clear by my posts on the subject by now, I believe that they fumbled the Mithral section sufficiently enough to leave far too much to interpretation... it should be pointed out that PHB pg.147 shows all armors of a given category as having the same speed.
tarkin 10-26-04, 10:45 AM	The sentence they use, "one catagory lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations", is a poor choice of words on the writers part, as 'other limitations' could mean just about anything. So speak with your DM as to what he groups in that catagory. Many (most?) DMs simply have that aspect of mithral apply to a very short list of abilities; - barbarian fast movement - bard arcane spell failure reduction - ranger combat style, evasion - rogue evasion, improved evasion But many (most?) do not have that feature apply to; - proficiency requirements - armor speed Like many people that claim "most DM's do it this way", you have it wierd. You have not done a survey, you choose to interepet it one way, asked around and at least one person agreed with you, so you think most people do it that way. The Sage discussed this. According to him Mithral affects the following: - armor speed. - barbarian fast movement It does NOT work on the following because they have nothing to do with movement limitations. - proficiency requirements - bard arcane spell failure reduction (aside from the 10%) - ranger combat style, evasion - rogue evasion, improved evasion
OrbitalB 10-26-04, 10:50 AM	Like many people that claim "most DM's do it this way", you have it wierd. You have not done a survey, you choose to interepet it one way, asked around and at least one person agreed with you, so you think most people do it that way. Of course your right, you're psychic and know exactly what i have and have not done. And I said "Many" and followed it with a 'most' in parens with a question mark... please don't misquote me again, i don't like that. The Sage discussed this. According to him Mithral affects the following: Link, please and thanks.