Armour and Clothes [Archive] - Wizards Community

Armour and Clothes [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zacharias
05-20-07, 08:08 AM A few things I'm not clear on.

1. When a character is wearing armour, which armours can be worn under clothes comfortably and not extreamly obviously?

2. Which armours are suitable as a full outfit? For example, someone in fullplate is unlikely to be wearing an outfit,

3. If a player wants an outfit to look a specific way, is their a chart that shows cost of individual articles of clothing? Or is it simpler to just let them look like what they want and just charge them for a similar outfit?

Thanks.
EternalZzyx
05-20-07, 08:28 AM 1: Studded leather maybe, possibly padded, but it will be hot in the summer. Leather armour is stiff and would show up. That said, all armour smells. So if someone gets too close then they will know you are wearing armour. (metal armours smell of metal and sweat, leather armours smell of leather and sweat, padded armour just smells of sweat, most adventurers don't notice that soap is on the equipment list)

2: I don't understand the question...

3: I just go with purpose, if it was designed for travelling in, traveller's outfit designed for a bit more than travelling, explorer's outfit. Designed to keep you warm, cold weather outfit, etc..
Neutronium_Dragon
05-20-07, 08:53 AM The outfits listed in the PHB are just catch-alls which can easily be tweaked as you prefer; if you'd rather have the outfit look a bit different than the standard then it does, as long as it still generally has the same function.
Shadowfax7
05-20-07, 09:04 AM 1. When a character is wearing armour, which armours can be worn under clothes comfortably and not extreamly obviously?As per RAW, none.

2. Which armours are suitable as a full outfit? For example, someone in fullplate is unlikely to be wearing an outfit.If an armor states it provides a piece covering your upper body, a piece covering your lower body and possibly gloves or gauntlets, boots, and a helmet, then IMO it would be suitable as a full outfit (check out the pictures on p.124-125 of the 3.5 PHB). However, you need not wear an outfit, just wear the armor.

3. If a player wants an outfit to look a specific way, is their a chart that shows cost of individual articles of clothing? Or is it simpler to just let them look like what they want and just charge them for a similar outfit?A full list of individual pieces of clothing and accessories is found in the Arms & Equipment Guide.
Watchman
05-20-07, 10:56 AM 1. When a character is wearing armour, which armours can be worn under clothes comfortably and not extreamly obviously?Whatever the RAW, which in any case usually actually hasn't the slightest clue about what it's talking about in these matters, might say, pretty much all Light and Medium armours. Loose enough tunics, trousers etc. will easily cover most any type of body and limb armour present at that level, turbans and cowls and whatnot will have no trouble covering at least the simpler types of helmets, and heck, there were types of armour specifically made to look like clothing at the first glance.

I warmer climes it was also a near-universal practice to cover metal armour with some sort of cloak, surcoat, tabard or whatever to keep the fierce glare of the sun from heating it up, although polishing the stuff to a mirror sheen was a showy alternative.
Naderion
05-20-07, 01:00 PM Your usual medieval armor could be draped in cloth, but you would always look like an armor wraped in cloth.
Perun
05-20-07, 04:25 PM 1. When a character is wearing armour, which armours can be worn under clothes comfortably and not extreamly obviously?

I'd say most "regular" armours would be visible under normal clothing. However, light armour could be relatively easily hidden under heavy and/or baggy clothing.

That being said, I think mithral (elven) chainshirt and chainmail should be easily concealable, and not signifficantly bulkier than normal clothes (except for their weight, of course). Other special materials might work similarily.

2. Which armours are suitable as a full outfit? For example, someone in fullplate is unlikely to be wearing an outfit,

You probably have to wear some clothes under any type of armour, it's just that some show more clothing than the others. I suppose heavy armours will cover most of your body, and could be considered "outfits".

3. If a player wants an outfit to look a specific way, is their a chart that shows cost of individual articles of clothing? Or is it simpler to just let them look like what they want and just charge them for a similar outfit?

The latter. Outfits in the PH cover most basic clothing types, and the rest can be extrapolated quite easily. Of course, the PH gives only the basic clothing without any special accessories. Jewelry has to be purchased separately, for example.

Regards.
StevenO
05-20-07, 07:16 PM Trying to "hide" a suit of armor you are wearing should probably be a disguise check modified by the armor's ACP. The result of that would be the DC of a Spot check to see if someone notices.
Gabriel Knight52
05-21-07, 12:08 AM 1. When a character is wearing armour, which armours can be worn under clothes comfortably

I would imagine any "armor' that would fit in the "torso" item slot (i.e. a chain shirt) could be worn under a "regular" shirt but Comfortably is relative term; there wouldn't be any cushioning when somebody hits you and it would pinch when you walk.

and not extremly obviously?

If the character wore a heavy cloak (suitable to the occasion) I imagine it would hide unsightly bulges. Otherwise it would probably require a disguise check or a perform check to pass as "normal".

2. Which armours are suitable as a full outfit? For example, someone in fullplate is unlikely to be wearing an outfit,

Fullplate could be considered formal-wear in some occasions, like the captain of the guard at a state function. You could probably tell by the armor if a character was from a specific social station; like a count would have shiny mwk armor with a heraldic crest and an adventurer would have scratched, dented maybe magical armor.

3. If a player wants an outfit to look a specific way, is their a chart that shows cost of individual articles of clothing?

I don't think there's a chart. What do they want, polka-dots? One green sock and one purple sock?

Or is it simpler to just let them look like what they want and just charge them for a similar outfit?

I assume you're looking at the clothes list (PH pg.131). I'd charge them based on what image they want to project (i.e if they want to be posh, charge them for a courtier or noble outfit etc.) If the outfit didn't do anything (game mechanic wise) why charge them anything?

:)
Kouk
05-21-07, 01:30 AM First of all, I am fairly sure you still wear clothing even under armor. If you don't, make it a house rule.

I would say only a mithral shirt and maybe elven chainmail could be worn as if just a layer of clothing. Padded armor isn't that bulky either. Beyond that is probably very bulky and you would stand out for your weird fluffy outfits and thick cloaks.

It is best to avoid this hassle and just get the Glamered property for armor, which makes it look like normal clothing.

D&D isn't a fashion simulator engine, just charge them for whatever outfit is closest and let them imagine themselves however they wish. If they want to dress in a bizarre manner, have NPCs comment on it, that is probably the only reason a player would go into much detail over clothing.
MasterBlaster
05-21-07, 05:46 AM 3) use the arms and equipment guide. its third edition, but really easy to use. its got a full list of different items of clothing that you can buy. i used it not tolong ago when my PCs had to dress all fancy like. hyuck
Watchman
05-21-07, 12:20 PM Mail behaves much like heavy textile in many respects; cover it with a layer of something, and it'll mostly look like thick cloth or similar although I understand the rows of links tend to show through in closer examination.

Looka at this merry fellow for example.
http://www.levantia.com.au/military/pictures/prokoursator.jpg (http://www.levantia.com.au/military/prokoursator.html)
Thow a layer of cloth on the mail hauberk, and most folks would be singularly hard pressed to tell it from any normal thick coat.

Most more rigid armour sits tightly enough around the body - or can be made to - that covering it with cloth or clothing will largely mask it. For example around the turn of the 17th and 18th centuries the usual practice among European heavy cavalry was to wear their breastplates under their uniform coats; unless you know what you're looking for (ie. the contours such an outfit gives a man's torso) or the coat in partially unbuttoned, noticing them in contemporary portraits can be rather difficult. Similarly for example the ancient Achaemenid Persians often wore their scale corselets under their tunics; Mardonius, the Persian commander at Platates 479BC, is for example mentioned to have had "golden plates" (realistically, gilt scale armour) under his robes which made him rather difficult for the Greek hoplites to slayafter he was unhorsed. A bit later the Dacians to the north of Makedonia are known to have by preference worn bronze greaves of the Graeco-Roman pattern under their baggy trousers (well, those that could afford such defenses of course).

Then there's armours like brigandine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigandine), commonly enough used across Eurasia, and the Middle Eastern khazagand ("jazeraint" or "jazerant" in European terminology; mail with integral padding and an outer layer of textile) which could with rather little alteration do a fine job passing for articles of clothing from a distance. Indeed, brigandine-type armour (ting kia, "armour with nails") was long the official dress of high Chinese military officials for ceremonial occasions, and for this purpose eventually lost the actual inner armour plates and was left with just the textile layers and "nails" for decoration... Although this is really the opposite of what's the topic here - cloth pretending to be armour, rather than the other way around.

Padded armor isn't that bulky either.Actually untrue. The sort of padding worn under metal armour can be light enough, but the kind that's also meant to be worn by itself as a defense (and sometimes worn over metal armours for extra protection) is actually very bulky.
Take a look at these reconstructions of Byzantine types for example:
http://www.levantia.com.au/military/pictures/pm_infantry.jpg (http://www.levantia.com.au/military/infantry.html)http://www.levantia.com.au/military/pictures/archer2.jpg (http://www.levantia.com.au/military/archer.html)
...although I'll grant you this sort is probably strong and heavy enough to rate as something else than just "padded" in D&D terms.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zacharias 05-20-07, 08:08 AM	A few things I'm not clear on. 1. When a character is wearing armour, which armours can be worn under clothes comfortably and not extreamly obviously? 2. Which armours are suitable as a full outfit? For example, someone in fullplate is unlikely to be wearing an outfit, 3. If a player wants an outfit to look a specific way, is their a chart that shows cost of individual articles of clothing? Or is it simpler to just let them look like what they want and just charge them for a similar outfit? Thanks.
EternalZzyx 05-20-07, 08:28 AM	1: Studded leather maybe, possibly padded, but it will be hot in the summer. Leather armour is stiff and would show up. That said, all armour smells. So if someone gets too close then they will know you are wearing armour. (metal armours smell of metal and sweat, leather armours smell of leather and sweat, padded armour just smells of sweat, most adventurers don't notice that soap is on the equipment list) 2: I don't understand the question... 3: I just go with purpose, if it was designed for travelling in, traveller's outfit designed for a bit more than travelling, explorer's outfit. Designed to keep you warm, cold weather outfit, etc..
Neutronium_Dragon 05-20-07, 08:53 AM	The outfits listed in the PHB are just catch-alls which can easily be tweaked as you prefer; if you'd rather have the outfit look a bit different than the standard then it does, as long as it still generally has the same function.
Shadowfax7 05-20-07, 09:04 AM	1. When a character is wearing armour, which armours can be worn under clothes comfortably and not extreamly obviously?As per RAW, none. 2. Which armours are suitable as a full outfit? For example, someone in fullplate is unlikely to be wearing an outfit.If an armor states it provides a piece covering your upper body, a piece covering your lower body and possibly gloves or gauntlets, boots, and a helmet, then IMO it would be suitable as a full outfit (check out the pictures on p.124-125 of the 3.5 PHB). However, you need not wear an outfit, just wear the armor. 3. If a player wants an outfit to look a specific way, is their a chart that shows cost of individual articles of clothing? Or is it simpler to just let them look like what they want and just charge them for a similar outfit?A full list of individual pieces of clothing and accessories is found in the Arms & Equipment Guide.
Watchman 05-20-07, 10:56 AM	1. When a character is wearing armour, which armours can be worn under clothes comfortably and not extreamly obviously?Whatever the RAW, which in any case usually actually hasn't the slightest clue about what it's talking about in these matters, might say, pretty much all Light and Medium armours. Loose enough tunics, trousers etc. will easily cover most any type of body and limb armour present at that level, turbans and cowls and whatnot will have no trouble covering at least the simpler types of helmets, and heck, there were types of armour specifically made to look like clothing at the first glance. I warmer climes it was also a near-universal practice to cover metal armour with some sort of cloak, surcoat, tabard or whatever to keep the fierce glare of the sun from heating it up, although polishing the stuff to a mirror sheen was a showy alternative.
Naderion 05-20-07, 01:00 PM	Your usual medieval armor could be draped in cloth, but you would always look like an armor wraped in cloth.
Perun 05-20-07, 04:25 PM	1. When a character is wearing armour, which armours can be worn under clothes comfortably and not extreamly obviously? I'd say most "regular" armours would be visible under normal clothing. However, light armour could be relatively easily hidden under heavy and/or baggy clothing. That being said, I think mithral (elven) chainshirt and chainmail should be easily concealable, and not signifficantly bulkier than normal clothes (except for their weight, of course). Other special materials might work similarily. 2. Which armours are suitable as a full outfit? For example, someone in fullplate is unlikely to be wearing an outfit, You probably have to wear some clothes under any type of armour, it's just that some show more clothing than the others. I suppose heavy armours will cover most of your body, and could be considered "outfits". 3. If a player wants an outfit to look a specific way, is their a chart that shows cost of individual articles of clothing? Or is it simpler to just let them look like what they want and just charge them for a similar outfit? The latter. Outfits in the PH cover most basic clothing types, and the rest can be extrapolated quite easily. Of course, the PH gives only the basic clothing without any special accessories. Jewelry has to be purchased separately, for example. Regards.
StevenO 05-20-07, 07:16 PM	Trying to "hide" a suit of armor you are wearing should probably be a disguise check modified by the armor's ACP. The result of that would be the DC of a Spot check to see if someone notices.
Gabriel Knight52 05-21-07, 12:08 AM	1. When a character is wearing armour, which armours can be worn under clothes comfortably I would imagine any "armor' that would fit in the "torso" item slot (i.e. a chain shirt) could be worn under a "regular" shirt but Comfortably is relative term; there wouldn't be any cushioning when somebody hits you and it would pinch when you walk. and not extremly obviously? If the character wore a heavy cloak (suitable to the occasion) I imagine it would hide unsightly bulges. Otherwise it would probably require a disguise check or a perform check to pass as "normal". 2. Which armours are suitable as a full outfit? For example, someone in fullplate is unlikely to be wearing an outfit, Fullplate could be considered formal-wear in some occasions, like the captain of the guard at a state function. You could probably tell by the armor if a character was from a specific social station; like a count would have shiny mwk armor with a heraldic crest and an adventurer would have scratched, dented maybe magical armor. 3. If a player wants an outfit to look a specific way, is their a chart that shows cost of individual articles of clothing? I don't think there's a chart. What do they want, polka-dots? One green sock and one purple sock? Or is it simpler to just let them look like what they want and just charge them for a similar outfit? I assume you're looking at the clothes list (PH pg.131). I'd charge them based on what image they want to project (i.e if they want to be posh, charge them for a courtier or noble outfit etc.) If the outfit didn't do anything (game mechanic wise) why charge them anything? :)
Kouk 05-21-07, 01:30 AM	First of all, I am fairly sure you still wear clothing even under armor. If you don't, make it a house rule. I would say only a mithral shirt and maybe elven chainmail could be worn as if just a layer of clothing. Padded armor isn't that bulky either. Beyond that is probably very bulky and you would stand out for your weird fluffy outfits and thick cloaks. It is best to avoid this hassle and just get the Glamered property for armor, which makes it look like normal clothing. D&D isn't a fashion simulator engine, just charge them for whatever outfit is closest and let them imagine themselves however they wish. If they want to dress in a bizarre manner, have NPCs comment on it, that is probably the only reason a player would go into much detail over clothing.
MasterBlaster 05-21-07, 05:46 AM	3) use the arms and equipment guide. its third edition, but really easy to use. its got a full list of different items of clothing that you can buy. i used it not tolong ago when my PCs had to dress all fancy like. hyuck
Watchman 05-21-07, 12:20 PM	Mail behaves much like heavy textile in many respects; cover it with a layer of something, and it'll mostly look like thick cloth or similar although I understand the rows of links tend to show through in closer examination. Looka at this merry fellow for example. http://www.levantia.com.au/military/pictures/prokoursator.jpg (http://www.levantia.com.au/military/prokoursator.html) Thow a layer of cloth on the mail hauberk, and most folks would be singularly hard pressed to tell it from any normal thick coat. Most more rigid armour sits tightly enough around the body - or can be made to - that covering it with cloth or clothing will largely mask it. For example around the turn of the 17th and 18th centuries the usual practice among European heavy cavalry was to wear their breastplates under their uniform coats; unless you know what you're looking for (ie. the contours such an outfit gives a man's torso) or the coat in partially unbuttoned, noticing them in contemporary portraits can be rather difficult. Similarly for example the ancient Achaemenid Persians often wore their scale corselets under their tunics; Mardonius, the Persian commander at Platates 479BC, is for example mentioned to have had "golden plates" (realistically, gilt scale armour) under his robes which made him rather difficult for the Greek hoplites to slayafter he was unhorsed. A bit later the Dacians to the north of Makedonia are known to have by preference worn bronze greaves of the Graeco-Roman pattern under their baggy trousers (well, those that could afford such defenses of course). Then there's armours like brigandine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigandine), commonly enough used across Eurasia, and the Middle Eastern khazagand ("jazeraint" or "jazerant" in European terminology; mail with integral padding and an outer layer of textile) which could with rather little alteration do a fine job passing for articles of clothing from a distance. Indeed, brigandine-type armour (ting kia, "armour with nails") was long the official dress of high Chinese military officials for ceremonial occasions, and for this purpose eventually lost the actual inner armour plates and was left with just the textile layers and "nails" for decoration... Although this is really the opposite of what's the topic here - cloth pretending to be armour, rather than the other way around. Padded armor isn't that bulky either.Actually untrue. The sort of padding worn under metal armour can be light enough, but the kind that's also meant to be worn by itself as a defense (and sometimes worn over metal armours for extra protection) is actually very bulky. Take a look at these reconstructions of Byzantine types for example: http://www.levantia.com.au/military/pictures/pm_infantry.jpg (http://www.levantia.com.au/military/infantry.html)http://www.levantia.com.au/military/pictures/archer2.jpg (http://www.levantia.com.au/military/archer.html) ...although I'll grant you this sort is probably strong and heavy enough to rate as something else than just "padded" in D&D terms.