Arrhg! Using the DMG! Arrgh! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arrhg! Using the DMG! Arrgh! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
pmurray@bigpond.com
07-08-07, 01:14 AM I'm running a Shujenga-Sorcerer healbot, who has no damage-dealing spells (for flavour). I read the thread on underestimatable weapons and the net seems like a lot of fun.

Now then - how about a net of silencing, or - even better - a net of antimagic? For disabling spellcasters with SR, of course. (Babau slime is another interesting possibility)

Let's try to use the core material to work out how much such a weapon would cost, and descend into madness.

A battle net is 20 gp. Masterwork is 320gp. Weapon cost is as per table 7-9. Fine. Table 7-14 lists common enhancments, but not antimagic. Our net will have to be at least +1, but what do I add to cover the antimagic? All I need to know is the appropriate weapon enhancement equivalent.

Antimagic Aura is a 6th level spell. One might think that that's a +6 enhancement, but that can't be right because Vorpal has a CL of 18, and therefore a spell level of 9, but is only a +5 enhancement.

Table 7-33. The antimagic aura is use activated, so that's 6 * caster level * 2000gp. What's the caster level? Must be 3 times the bonus of the weapon. What's the bonus of the weapon? I don't know - that's what I'm trying to figure out. Must be at least 11 (to cast antimagic aura). 6 * 11 * 2000 gp is 132,000 - which is about +6 according to table 7-9. Still seems a little steep. In any case, this table doesn't apply, because we have a more specific table to use (the costs for weapons, specifically).

Sigh. So let's look at crafting a weapon. Maybe I can work it out by reading how much it cost to create the item.

Page 282. Hoho! in the sidebar "when multiplying spell levels to determine value ...", so it is possible to ... naah. No help. Been there, done that with table 7-33.

Page 283: The magic supplies cost and the base XP cost are taken off the market base brice. So I can't use these to work out the base price (as I am trying to do), because they are derived values as per tabel 7-32.

So, at the end of the day, it seems like a bit of a judgment call on the part of the DM. Boop.

Let's return to the special abilities page (table 7-14, 7-15). We have established that the special ability on this weapon has a CL of 11. (of course, the createor must be higher than that to create it). Oh - to make a weapon you must have a CL of at least three times the enhancement bonus - which we do not know - but that does not affect the CL of the type of enhancment.

Anyway. Let's list them by CL and enhancment bonus

Briliant energy. 16. +4
Dancing. 16. +4
Defending. 8. +1
Disruption. 14. +2.
Distance. 6. +1 (also v. handy for my net.)
Flaming. 10. +1.
Flaming burst. 12. +2.
Holy. 7. +2. (whaaa? Oh - it's divine.)
Shocking Burst. 10. +2.
Speed. 7. +3 (also out of band, but speed is immensly useful)
Vicious. 9. +1.

Apart from the really out-of-band weapons, CL 10 tends to be +1, and CL 12 tends to be +2. Since antimagic aura is CL 11, we'll say +2. Arguably, it might be bumped up a level, because it does more than simply extra damage and is v. useful (like speed weapons). But we'll leave it at +2 because it's quite specific - the aura is not a full on 6th level aura, but only applies to the creature entangled i the net.

So a Antimagic throwing net +1 will be about 18,320 - as will a silencing/distance throwing net +1. It's a lot of shmuckers, but about the same as my ring of invisibility.

A babau slime net +1 is considerably cheaper (8,320) and will trigger concentration checks. But my characer won't use one. A net of Buzzing Bee might be better for disabling casters - but the buzzing bee spell is better than a net of same: (no save, no SR, medium range, and my sorc can highten it to improve the DC).

A siliencing net +1 - also 8320 shmuckers - might be the best bet, and it has a myriad of possible uses as well as being handy vs spellcasters in battle.
Nom
07-08-07, 08:27 AM Some clarifications:

(1) Listed CL numbers are estimates of what the designers thought felt right, and are in a few cases illegal. They are not in any way minimums and (for the most part) have no effect on the pricing.

(2) The CL x3 bonus limit specifically applies to the enhancement bonus, not to bonus-equivalents for pricing.

Example: the minimum CL for a vorpal weapon is 11, because that is the minimum CL required for a circle of death effect.

And since you asked, the aligned weapons are only +2 because although they do +2d6 they only work against a subset of creatures and apply a penalty to non-aligned creatures trying to use them.

If you're trying to add an antimagic ability, it will require antimagic field. This is a level 6 spell, and thus the minimum CL is 11. Bonus is completely different, and should be based on perceived power. Without knowing the exact effect you had in mind, it's hard to say.
kalstrand
07-08-07, 04:44 PM It should be compared to a similar item. Antimagic Shackles can be found in the BOeD (I think) and cost around 130k. I would say a net that did the same thing would cost about the same.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pmurray@bigpond.com 07-08-07, 01:14 AM	I'm running a Shujenga-Sorcerer healbot, who has no damage-dealing spells (for flavour). I read the thread on underestimatable weapons and the net seems like a lot of fun. Now then - how about a net of silencing, or - even better - a net of antimagic? For disabling spellcasters with SR, of course. (Babau slime is another interesting possibility) Let's try to use the core material to work out how much such a weapon would cost, and descend into madness. A battle net is 20 gp. Masterwork is 320gp. Weapon cost is as per table 7-9. Fine. Table 7-14 lists common enhancments, but not antimagic. Our net will have to be at least +1, but what do I add to cover the antimagic? All I need to know is the appropriate weapon enhancement equivalent. Antimagic Aura is a 6th level spell. One might think that that's a +6 enhancement, but that can't be right because Vorpal has a CL of 18, and therefore a spell level of 9, but is only a +5 enhancement. Table 7-33. The antimagic aura is use activated, so that's 6 * caster level * 2000gp. What's the caster level? Must be 3 times the bonus of the weapon. What's the bonus of the weapon? I don't know - that's what I'm trying to figure out. Must be at least 11 (to cast antimagic aura). 6 * 11 * 2000 gp is 132,000 - which is about +6 according to table 7-9. Still seems a little steep. In any case, this table doesn't apply, because we have a more specific table to use (the costs for weapons, specifically). Sigh. So let's look at crafting a weapon. Maybe I can work it out by reading how much it cost to create the item. Page 282. Hoho! in the sidebar "when multiplying spell levels to determine value ...", so it is possible to ... naah. No help. Been there, done that with table 7-33. Page 283: The magic supplies cost and the base XP cost are taken off the market base brice. So I can't use these to work out the base price (as I am trying to do), because they are derived values as per tabel 7-32. So, at the end of the day, it seems like a bit of a judgment call on the part of the DM. Boop. Let's return to the special abilities page (table 7-14, 7-15). We have established that the special ability on this weapon has a CL of 11. (of course, the createor must be higher than that to create it). Oh - to make a weapon you must have a CL of at least three times the enhancement bonus - which we do not know - but that does not affect the CL of the type of enhancment. Anyway. Let's list them by CL and enhancment bonus Briliant energy. 16. +4 Dancing. 16. +4 Defending. 8. +1 Disruption. 14. +2. Distance. 6. +1 (also v. handy for my net.) Flaming. 10. +1. Flaming burst. 12. +2. Holy. 7. +2. (whaaa? Oh - it's divine.) Shocking Burst. 10. +2. Speed. 7. +3 (also out of band, but speed is immensly useful) Vicious. 9. +1. Apart from the really out-of-band weapons, CL 10 tends to be +1, and CL 12 tends to be +2. Since antimagic aura is CL 11, we'll say +2. Arguably, it might be bumped up a level, because it does more than simply extra damage and is v. useful (like speed weapons). But we'll leave it at +2 because it's quite specific - the aura is not a full on 6th level aura, but only applies to the creature entangled i the net. So a Antimagic throwing net +1 will be about 18,320 - as will a silencing/distance throwing net +1. It's a lot of shmuckers, but about the same as my ring of invisibility. A babau slime net +1 is considerably cheaper (8,320) and will trigger concentration checks. But my characer won't use one. A net of Buzzing Bee might be better for disabling casters - but the buzzing bee spell is better than a net of same: (no save, no SR, medium range, and my sorc can highten it to improve the DC). A siliencing net +1 - also 8320 shmuckers - might be the best bet, and it has a myriad of possible uses as well as being handy vs spellcasters in battle.
Nom 07-08-07, 08:27 AM	Some clarifications: (1) Listed CL numbers are estimates of what the designers thought felt right, and are in a few cases illegal. They are not in any way minimums and (for the most part) have no effect on the pricing. (2) The CL x3 bonus limit specifically applies to the enhancement bonus, not to bonus-equivalents for pricing. Example: the minimum CL for a vorpal weapon is 11, because that is the minimum CL required for a circle of death effect. And since you asked, the aligned weapons are only +2 because although they do +2d6 they only work against a subset of creatures and apply a penalty to non-aligned creatures trying to use them. If you're trying to add an antimagic ability, it will require antimagic field. This is a level 6 spell, and thus the minimum CL is 11. Bonus is completely different, and should be based on perceived power. Without knowing the exact effect you had in mind, it's hard to say.
kalstrand 07-08-07, 04:44 PM	It should be compared to a similar item. Antimagic Shackles can be found in the BOeD (I think) and cost around 130k. I would say a net that did the same thing would cost about the same.