Arrow of Slaying VS. High Level Wizard [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arrow of Slaying VS. High Level Wizard [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
telldel
12-16-06, 03:45 PM This could be an easily answered question, but I'll ask anyway. What does a high level (over 15) wizard have to prevent sudden death from a Arrow of Slaying (greater or lesser). Would a contingency even work in this situation?

Thanks for posting your thoughts.

WHO YA GONNA TELL?

TELLDEL
UnrelentingHoror
12-16-06, 05:57 PM contingency with a death ward spell maybe? Thats a verry specific instance though and I think your overlooking the whole death effects being good at killing wizards issue altogether. So if I were you I'd just look for an item that gave me the effect of death ward all the time, keeps those nasty power word kill spells from killing you in round one as well as the arrow of slaying shenanigans you speak of.
Rulebook
12-16-06, 06:04 PM entropic shield?
Seerow
12-16-06, 06:13 PM Why are you even bothering with contingencies here?

A High level caster should ALWAYS have Death Ward up. Mind Blank too.
Damionte
12-16-06, 06:16 PM Or just letting someone in your lvl 6 party shoot and miss!

Aside form that it's a dc 20 fort save. Your 19th level protaganists has a base +6 +/Con +/Protective gear.

I'd say about a 50/50 shot on the save.

No fair sneaking away to other forum sections. You have a throng of folks waiting on info in the Magic Section.
telldel
12-16-06, 06:33 PM Or just letting someone in your lvl 6 party shoot and miss!

Aside form that it's a dc 20 fort save. Your 19th level protaganists has a base +6 +/Con +/Protective gear.

I'd say about a 50/50 shot on the save.

No fair sneaking away to other forum sections. You have a throng of folks waiting on info in the Magic Section.

LOL - I just thought that this question was better suited for this section. I also posted the thought at the bottom of the other thread as well.

DEATH WARD can not be cast by a wizard, right? It's a clerical spell. So my high-level wizard nemesis, while he may have a magical item, does not have the ability to cast death ward himself.

So here's the scenario - We kick in the door, surprise round, we fire four Arrows of Slaying at him. Two may hit, forcing him to do a 50/50 save - TWICE - against death. He fails one of them and DIES. YEAH!

Or does someone see a problem with this?

Telldel
Khael
12-16-06, 06:39 PM He beareth the +1 mithral chain shirt of twilight soulfire. Soulfire, for one of it's very useful properties, confers immunity to magical death effects. Like those arrows... And I know a lvl 15 can afford that by the normal money progression.
Damionte
12-16-06, 07:09 PM Yeah trust me, he has a muchbetter chance of having protection from death magic considering his availuable funds at 19 thna you guys have of affording 4 arrows of slaying at 2-4k gold apiece at lvl 6.

You guys should have more than a few thousand gold availuable to you in coin at this point.
runestar
12-16-06, 10:20 PM Where are you getting this 6th lv party thing from?:confused:

A spellcaster can easily use limited wish to mimic any spell he wants, be it death ward against instant kill spells, unhallow for a lich, heal when you are in deep trouble, or whatever fits the current situation.:)

I am assuming here that death ward does protect you against slaying weapons. I think it does, but I cannot be 100% sure.:embarrass

Else, pump your AC super high. Or focus on saves - lv15 wiz can manage a fort save of 18(base5, +5 from con of 20(base14+6 from con item), +5 cloak of resistance, +3 familiar). So he's going to fail on a natural 1 anyway...
Vaelan
12-17-06, 12:37 AM Or does someone see a problem with this?
Immunity to death effects. What BBEG Wizard isn't a Lich nowadays?
runestar
12-17-06, 02:10 AM Immunity to death effects. What BBEG Wizard isn't a Lich nowadays?
Not every spellcaster is necessarily a humanoid, dragon or mindflayer...;)
BW0222
12-17-06, 01:05 PM telldel

>This could be an easily answered question, but I'll ask
>anyway. What does a high level (over 15) wizard have to
>prevent sudden death from a Arrow of Slaying (greater or
>lesser). Would a contingency even work in this situation?

At those levels,...

First, your average wizard isn't likely to get into situatios where folks can easily shoot him. He'll be held up in his tower, secret workshop, etc. He has servants to handle mundane things and isn't likely to need to head out that often. When he does travel, it would be to specific places.

Second, anyone of that level wouldn't be travelling or staying alone. When out he will be travelling with his assistants and/or body guards who will be handling security -- detecting magic, searching rooms he will later be teleporting into, etc. I wouldn't put it past him to have a divination spells cast any time he though he was going anywhere with any risk.

Third, in most cases he would have both mundane and magical protections up -- both in his place and while travelling or visiting. Three assistants dressed exactly as the wizard, cloaks of displacement, protection from arrows, contingency spells, projected image, invisibility, ten body guards, etc., etc.

Yes, a single bullet can kill a rich industrialist, world leader, or drug lord. The trick is getting near enough to one.
runestar
12-17-06, 10:03 PM Yes, a single bullet can kill a rich industrialist, world leader, or drug lord. The trick is getting near enough to one.
In an era why scry-and-die tactics can be considered to be the norm, its not that hard an objective as you make it seem.;)
Chaos Theory
12-17-06, 10:13 PM In an era why scry-and-die tactics can be considered to be the norm, its not that hard an objective as you make it seem.;)

Thats where the DM's good judgment comes into play. If you are allowing scry and kill spell combos, well its not good. Whats to stop the BBEG from just scrying with kill spells till the entire party rolls natural ones on their save?

As a DM I would never allow such an action, its a game breaker and a half.
runestar
12-17-06, 10:34 PM Thats where the DM's good judgment comes into play. If you are allowing scry and kill spell combos, well its not good. Whats to stop the BBEG from just scrying with kill spells till the entire party rolls natural ones on their save?
The question then comes as to why every single wiz capable of casting teleport twice doesn't do it. The answer has been answered by Elminster in the FRCS.:)
Vaelan
12-17-06, 11:23 PM Not every spellcaster is necessarily a humanoid, dragon or mindflayer...;)
It is a level 15 Wizard. I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say that every level 15 Wizard is a humanoid, dragon, or mindflayer.
concerro
12-18-06, 02:28 AM He beareth the +1 mithral chain shirt of twilight soulfire. Soulfire, for one of it's very useful properties, confers immunity to magical death effects. Like those arrows... And I know a lvl 15 can afford that by the normal money progression.

what book is the mithral chain shirt of twilight soulfire in?
tarkin
12-18-06, 11:57 AM By level 15, the wizard should have some form of concealment/miss chance up in combat, and probably out of combat as well.

A simple thing like a minor Cloak of Displacment provides a 20% miss chance.

Mirror Images/Projected Image, etc. work very well against things like this
Khael
12-18-06, 12:53 PM what book is the mithral chain shirt of twilight soulfire in?

It's a combo, mithral chainshirts are core, and both twilight and soulfire are in BOVD.
Witch
12-18-06, 12:57 PM Why are you even bothering with contingencies here?

A High level caster should ALWAYS have Death Ward up. Mind Blank too.

Not Mind Blank. It removes Morale Bonuses.
Ainamacar
12-18-06, 03:26 PM Greater Mirror Image from PHB2 is an immediate action to cast. Use Foresight or an Uncanny Dodge-like class feature (Divine Oracle has Prescient Sense, for example) to avoid being flat-footed. No surprise rounds, ever, and before the first arrow comes near there are 8 images of the wizard walking around.

I did the math, and even if we assume every arrow hits either the mage or an image, and he has a 50% chance of making the save, the probability he survives is about .775. This is compared to them all hitting without protections, his chance of making all 4 saves is a paltry .0625.

The fact of the matter is, an unsurprised wizard can do more than this, and he'll be sure to have his AC sky high as well, so these numbers are conservative. Unless they can defeat the illusion and his AC, this is one safe wizard.
Fargren
12-18-06, 04:14 PM It's a combo, mithral chainshirts are core, and both twilight and soulfire are in BOVD.
BOED, actually.
Edymnion
12-18-06, 04:28 PM BOED, actually.Yup, which is a good reason not to allow them, IMO. Actually, I don't allow Twlight in my games, as it is entirely too powerful for it's cost.

Maybe 5% per +1 equivolent, but the way it is now? Uh uh.
Count Arioch the 28th
12-18-06, 06:37 PM Whats to stop the BBEG from just scrying with kill spells till the entire party rolls natural ones on their save?

The rules of the game, see the spell. You can't cast death spells through scry.

You can however use it to get a bead on something with Teleport.

However, your point is rational. Depending on your campaign world, magic might have been around for some time, someone at some point learned you can use scry and teleport tactics, and at some point should have came up with a defense against it.

Unfortunately, WotC doesn't see it that way, so there really isn't much you can do.
Vaelan
12-18-06, 08:24 PM However, your point is rational. Depending on your campaign world, magic might have been around for some time, someone at some point learned you can use scry and teleport tactics, and at some point should have came up with a defense against it.

Unfortunately, WotC doesn't see it that way, so there really isn't much you can do.
Other than make your own spells.

Also, the tactic is handily defeated by a spellcaster of equal power. Anticipate Teleport and any of the numerous defenses against Scrying suffice.
ZomB
12-19-06, 12:17 AM A Scarab of Protection has to be common at this level and also as already mentioned a Minor Cloak of Displacement (20% miss chance) - I invested in the cloak for my 12th level caster. Always on items are preferable to reactive guards.
Sphyre
12-19-06, 01:01 AM Immunity to death effects. What BBEG Wizard isn't a Lich nowadays?

Not every spellcaster is necessarily a humanoid, dragon or mindflayer...;)

My current campaign the BBEG is an Ulitharid... :D Not an Alhoon.
Ioreck
12-19-06, 01:18 AM Arrow of slaying? on a wizard? pffft

Antimagic arrow people!!!! everything goes *fizzle* the moment it touches the ground... or the target...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
telldel 12-16-06, 03:45 PM	This could be an easily answered question, but I'll ask anyway. What does a high level (over 15) wizard have to prevent sudden death from a Arrow of Slaying (greater or lesser). Would a contingency even work in this situation? Thanks for posting your thoughts. WHO YA GONNA TELL? TELLDEL
UnrelentingHoror 12-16-06, 05:57 PM	contingency with a death ward spell maybe? Thats a verry specific instance though and I think your overlooking the whole death effects being good at killing wizards issue altogether. So if I were you I'd just look for an item that gave me the effect of death ward all the time, keeps those nasty power word kill spells from killing you in round one as well as the arrow of slaying shenanigans you speak of.
Rulebook 12-16-06, 06:04 PM	entropic shield?
Seerow 12-16-06, 06:13 PM	Why are you even bothering with contingencies here? A High level caster should ALWAYS have Death Ward up. Mind Blank too.
Damionte 12-16-06, 06:16 PM	Or just letting someone in your lvl 6 party shoot and miss! Aside form that it's a dc 20 fort save. Your 19th level protaganists has a base +6 +/Con +/Protective gear. I'd say about a 50/50 shot on the save. No fair sneaking away to other forum sections. You have a throng of folks waiting on info in the Magic Section.
telldel 12-16-06, 06:33 PM	Or just letting someone in your lvl 6 party shoot and miss! Aside form that it's a dc 20 fort save. Your 19th level protaganists has a base +6 +/Con +/Protective gear. I'd say about a 50/50 shot on the save. No fair sneaking away to other forum sections. You have a throng of folks waiting on info in the Magic Section. LOL - I just thought that this question was better suited for this section. I also posted the thought at the bottom of the other thread as well. DEATH WARD can not be cast by a wizard, right? It's a clerical spell. So my high-level wizard nemesis, while he may have a magical item, does not have the ability to cast death ward himself. So here's the scenario - We kick in the door, surprise round, we fire four Arrows of Slaying at him. Two may hit, forcing him to do a 50/50 save - TWICE - against death. He fails one of them and DIES. YEAH! Or does someone see a problem with this? Telldel
Khael 12-16-06, 06:39 PM	He beareth the +1 mithral chain shirt of twilight soulfire. Soulfire, for one of it's very useful properties, confers immunity to magical death effects. Like those arrows... And I know a lvl 15 can afford that by the normal money progression.
Damionte 12-16-06, 07:09 PM	Yeah trust me, he has a muchbetter chance of having protection from death magic considering his availuable funds at 19 thna you guys have of affording 4 arrows of slaying at 2-4k gold apiece at lvl 6. You guys should have more than a few thousand gold availuable to you in coin at this point.
runestar 12-16-06, 10:20 PM	Where are you getting this 6th lv party thing from?:confused: A spellcaster can easily use limited wish to mimic any spell he wants, be it death ward against instant kill spells, unhallow for a lich, heal when you are in deep trouble, or whatever fits the current situation.:) I am assuming here that death ward does protect you against slaying weapons. I think it does, but I cannot be 100% sure.:embarrass Else, pump your AC super high. Or focus on saves - lv15 wiz can manage a fort save of 18(base5, +5 from con of 20(base14+6 from con item), +5 cloak of resistance, +3 familiar). So he's going to fail on a natural 1 anyway...
Vaelan 12-17-06, 12:37 AM	Or does someone see a problem with this? Immunity to death effects. What BBEG Wizard isn't a Lich nowadays?
runestar 12-17-06, 02:10 AM	Immunity to death effects. What BBEG Wizard isn't a Lich nowadays? Not every spellcaster is necessarily a humanoid, dragon or mindflayer...;)
BW0222 12-17-06, 01:05 PM	telldel >This could be an easily answered question, but I'll ask >anyway. What does a high level (over 15) wizard have to >prevent sudden death from a Arrow of Slaying (greater or >lesser). Would a contingency even work in this situation? At those levels,... First, your average wizard isn't likely to get into situatios where folks can easily shoot him. He'll be held up in his tower, secret workshop, etc. He has servants to handle mundane things and isn't likely to need to head out that often. When he does travel, it would be to specific places. Second, anyone of that level wouldn't be travelling or staying alone. When out he will be travelling with his assistants and/or body guards who will be handling security -- detecting magic, searching rooms he will later be teleporting into, etc. I wouldn't put it past him to have a divination spells cast any time he though he was going anywhere with any risk. Third, in most cases he would have both mundane and magical protections up -- both in his place and while travelling or visiting. Three assistants dressed exactly as the wizard, cloaks of displacement, protection from arrows, contingency spells, projected image, invisibility, ten body guards, etc., etc. Yes, a single bullet can kill a rich industrialist, world leader, or drug lord. The trick is getting near enough to one.
runestar 12-17-06, 10:03 PM	Yes, a single bullet can kill a rich industrialist, world leader, or drug lord. The trick is getting near enough to one. In an era why scry-and-die tactics can be considered to be the norm, its not that hard an objective as you make it seem.;)
Chaos Theory 12-17-06, 10:13 PM	In an era why scry-and-die tactics can be considered to be the norm, its not that hard an objective as you make it seem.;) Thats where the DM's good judgment comes into play. If you are allowing scry and kill spell combos, well its not good. Whats to stop the BBEG from just scrying with kill spells till the entire party rolls natural ones on their save? As a DM I would never allow such an action, its a game breaker and a half.
runestar 12-17-06, 10:34 PM	Thats where the DM's good judgment comes into play. If you are allowing scry and kill spell combos, well its not good. Whats to stop the BBEG from just scrying with kill spells till the entire party rolls natural ones on their save? The question then comes as to why every single wiz capable of casting teleport twice doesn't do it. The answer has been answered by Elminster in the FRCS.:)
Vaelan 12-17-06, 11:23 PM	Not every spellcaster is necessarily a humanoid, dragon or mindflayer...;) It is a level 15 Wizard. I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say that every level 15 Wizard is a humanoid, dragon, or mindflayer.
concerro 12-18-06, 02:28 AM	He beareth the +1 mithral chain shirt of twilight soulfire. Soulfire, for one of it's very useful properties, confers immunity to magical death effects. Like those arrows... And I know a lvl 15 can afford that by the normal money progression. what book is the mithral chain shirt of twilight soulfire in?
tarkin 12-18-06, 11:57 AM	By level 15, the wizard should have some form of concealment/miss chance up in combat, and probably out of combat as well. A simple thing like a minor Cloak of Displacment provides a 20% miss chance. Mirror Images/Projected Image, etc. work very well against things like this
Khael 12-18-06, 12:53 PM	what book is the mithral chain shirt of twilight soulfire in? It's a combo, mithral chainshirts are core, and both twilight and soulfire are in BOVD.
Witch 12-18-06, 12:57 PM	Why are you even bothering with contingencies here? A High level caster should ALWAYS have Death Ward up. Mind Blank too. Not Mind Blank. It removes Morale Bonuses.
Ainamacar 12-18-06, 03:26 PM	Greater Mirror Image from PHB2 is an immediate action to cast. Use Foresight or an Uncanny Dodge-like class feature (Divine Oracle has Prescient Sense, for example) to avoid being flat-footed. No surprise rounds, ever, and before the first arrow comes near there are 8 images of the wizard walking around. I did the math, and even if we assume every arrow hits either the mage or an image, and he has a 50% chance of making the save, the probability he survives is about .775. This is compared to them all hitting without protections, his chance of making all 4 saves is a paltry .0625. The fact of the matter is, an unsurprised wizard can do more than this, and he'll be sure to have his AC sky high as well, so these numbers are conservative. Unless they can defeat the illusion and his AC, this is one safe wizard.
Fargren 12-18-06, 04:14 PM	It's a combo, mithral chainshirts are core, and both twilight and soulfire are in BOVD. BOED, actually.
Edymnion 12-18-06, 04:28 PM	BOED, actually.Yup, which is a good reason not to allow them, IMO. Actually, I don't allow Twlight in my games, as it is entirely too powerful for it's cost. Maybe 5% per +1 equivolent, but the way it is now? Uh uh.
Count Arioch the 28th 12-18-06, 06:37 PM	Whats to stop the BBEG from just scrying with kill spells till the entire party rolls natural ones on their save? The rules of the game, see the spell. You can't cast death spells through scry. You can however use it to get a bead on something with Teleport. However, your point is rational. Depending on your campaign world, magic might have been around for some time, someone at some point learned you can use scry and teleport tactics, and at some point should have came up with a defense against it. Unfortunately, WotC doesn't see it that way, so there really isn't much you can do.
Vaelan 12-18-06, 08:24 PM	However, your point is rational. Depending on your campaign world, magic might have been around for some time, someone at some point learned you can use scry and teleport tactics, and at some point should have came up with a defense against it. Unfortunately, WotC doesn't see it that way, so there really isn't much you can do. Other than make your own spells. Also, the tactic is handily defeated by a spellcaster of equal power. Anticipate Teleport and any of the numerous defenses against Scrying suffice.
ZomB 12-19-06, 12:17 AM	A Scarab of Protection has to be common at this level and also as already mentioned a Minor Cloak of Displacement (20% miss chance) - I invested in the cloak for my 12th level caster. Always on items are preferable to reactive guards.
Sphyre 12-19-06, 01:01 AM	Immunity to death effects. What BBEG Wizard isn't a Lich nowadays? Not every spellcaster is necessarily a humanoid, dragon or mindflayer...;) My current campaign the BBEG is an Ulitharid... :D Not an Alhoon.
Ioreck 12-19-06, 01:18 AM	Arrow of slaying? on a wizard? pffft Antimagic arrow people!!!! everything goes fizzle the moment it touches the ground... or the target...