Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CelestialBarbarian 02-03-07, 07:39 PM	The 3.0 book Masters of the Wild has four arrows of curing: arrow of cure light wounds: 107 gp arrow of cure moderate wounds: 607 gp arrow of cure serious wounds: 2807 gp arrow of cure critical wounds: 2807 gp Does anyone know how they calculated these prices? One of my players would like to see if he can create or buy an arrow of heal, but I don't know how they calculated these other arrow prices. Also, just out of curiosity, have the arrows of cure appeared anywhere in 3.5? Thanks! :)
Fallenangel359 02-03-07, 08:55 PM	technically 50 arrows of spellstoring would be 2000 gold, or 40 gold a piece, before the spell is cast. If you want to store 50 charges of cure light from a wand into it, thats another 750 gold. Thats 55 gold a piece. If you are an artificer aiming for some healing, you could craft a wand of cure light, and the arrows.
Mogofeiden 02-03-07, 09:12 PM	The only way you can have spell storing arrows is if you use the arrows as improvised melee weapons as in a melee attack. Spell Storing is specifically a melee enhancement, it cannot be bestowed upon ammunition or ranged weapons. Not to put a damper on the OPs idea but aren't curing arrows contradictory, since the arrows are supposed to inflict damage not to cure it?! :rolleyes: Also, how efficient can cure arrows be when soft cover and shooting into melee come into play?
CelestialBarbarian 02-03-07, 09:40 PM	I didn't invent the idea for these items; they appear in Master's of the Wild. I'd just like to know how they determined the prices for them. Thanks.
RavenDrake 02-03-07, 09:59 PM	Actually, it's a really good idea, "Hey look, the fighter's in melee 35 feet away and low health, let me rapidshot a pair of Cure light Arrows at him." Or, conversely, "Let's bow down some undead." At any rate, for the price... here's how it looks to me: Normally a use activated on time use item is spell level x caster level x 50gp. Lets look: Cure Light Arrow: 107gp 1 x 1 x 50= 50gp Cure Moderate Arrow = 607gp 2 x 3 x 50 = 300gp Cure Serious Arrow = 1507gp 3 x 5 x 50gp = 750gp Cure Critical Arrow = 2807gp 4 x 7 x 50gp = 1400gp Seems to me theyr'e simply priced at double the cost of normal one shot item plus 7gp to cover the arrow(the magic +1 enhancement seems to be subsumed into the extra gp paid out for the item.) For heal, if you follow that basic guideline(and don't find it abuseive), it should cost: 6(spell level) x 11(minimum caster level) x 100gp(double normal) + 7gp=6607gp for a +1 arrow that casts Heal on a successful strike. I'm not sure that I would necessarily allow that item in the game, simply because of the strength of heal, though it is much less powerful than it was in 3.0.
CelestialBarbarian 02-03-07, 10:26 PM	Actually, it's a really good idea, "Hey look, the fighter's in melee 35 feet away and low health, let me rapidshot a pair of Cure light Arrows at him." Or, conversely, "Let's bow down some undead." At any rate, for the price... here's how it looks to me: Normally a use activated on time use item is spell level x caster level x 50gp. Lets look: Cure Light Arrow: 107gp 1 x 1 x 50= 50gp Cure Moderate Arrow = 607gp 2 x 3 x 50 = 300gp Cure Serious Arrow = 1507gp 3 x 5 x 50gp = 750gp Cure Critical Arrow = 2807gp 4 x 7 x 50gp = 1400gp Seems to me theyr'e simply priced at double the cost of normal one shot item plus 7gp to cover the arrow(the magic +1 enhancement seems to be subsumed into the extra gp paid out for the item.) For heal, if you follow that basic guideline(and don't find it abuseive), it should cost: 6(spell level) x 11(minimum caster level) x 100gp(double normal) + 7gp=6607gp for a +1 arrow that casts Heal on a successful strike. I'm not sure that I would necessarily allow that item in the game, simply because of the strength of heal, though it is much less powerful than it was in 3.0. Thanks very much--that's very helpful! :cool: Edit: An arrow of cure critical heals and average of 25 hit points. An arrow of heal would cure 110 hit points. I decided to scale the price of the arrow of heal proportionately to the price of the arrow of cure critical wounds; 110/25 = 4.4. An arrow of cure critical wounds costs 2807, minus 7 for the masterwork arrow, equals 2800. 2800 x 4.4 = 12,320. 12,320 +7 = 12,327.
ShinAkuma2 02-03-07, 11:08 PM	Just for reference, what does MotW say about these Cure arrows? Do they do no damage? Otherwise, it seems a CLW Arrow is good for, on average, 1 point of healing, and that's assuming no Point Blank Shot, enhancement bonuses, Composite Strength rating, etc. is added.
Bounces 02-03-07, 11:12 PM	I think that they seem more in line with doing positive energy damage to undead badies than anything else.
crimsonwolf 02-04-07, 01:40 AM	actully ... its considered a blunt arrow i think... so umm..subdual damage? or whatever it is.....also i think its another possiblity it turns into a ray attack.. instead of a damage atack....
Xeviat-DM 02-04-07, 01:45 AM	They specifically don't deal damage. And I think the 7 gp covers the masterwork cost: 7x50 is 350, which is close to the cost of 50 masterwork arrows ... I think the DMG lists 50 MW arrows as 350 if I remember correctly. I like them.
CelestialBarbarian 02-04-07, 01:56 AM	Just for reference, what does MotW say about these Cure arrows? Do they do no damage? Otherwise, it seems a CLW Arrow is good for, on average, 1 point of healing, and that's assuming no Point Blank Shot, enhancement bonuses, Composite Strength rating, etc. is added. Yes, they do no damage. :)
Banning 02-04-07, 03:28 AM	<.< Another cool idea with healing are healing traps. Thats right! You make a trap the triggers a healing spell and then resets itself. Those are SWEET, plus if theres ever undead... >D
RavenDrake 02-04-07, 04:37 AM	Yes, it says in the description that the arrows deal no damage and instead trigger the Cure effect when they strike (I sort of envision them transforming into mystical energy when they strike, infusing the target with a bolt of white energy.... something like that). They were a really interesting idea that I'm kinda sad never saw reprinting anywhere else...
Draxo 02-04-07, 05:03 AM	I can see it now.. Tan.. Caro is going to die if he doesnt recieve help.. "Dont worry.. i can help him!" *Tan pulls out a bow and an arrow and shoots the dying Caro* "What the hells are you doing!?"
mvincent 02-04-07, 04:25 PM	50 arrows of spellstoring would be 2000 goldWeapons have to be at least +1 to have further enhancements The only way you can have spell storing arrows is if you use the arrows as improvised melee weapons as in a melee attack. Spell Storing is specifically a melee enhancement, it cannot be bestowed upon ammunition or ranged weapons.Obligatory notes regarding spell-storing on ranged weapons: 1) The random magic item creations charts are generally not exclusionary (i.e. you can make things, like scrolls, wands and potions, that are not listed). If it was the designers intent to have the weapon tables indicate excluded combinations, it does not seem supported by precedent. 2) Even if you are excluding certain combinations (based on those tables), there are still ranged weapons on the melee weapon table, and melee weapons on the ranged weapon table. You can still roll up ranged spell-storing weapons (like spell-storing throwing daggers and such), so the issue needs to be addressed regardless. 3) Strict RAW says that the wielder of a spell-storing weapon decides (after hitting their opponent) if the stored spell will be cast or not. To many this implies that a spell-storing throwing dagger would not function if thrown (since it is no longer 'wielded'). This is a DM call. 4) Even if a DM rules against #3, a spell-storing arrow could still theoretically be used as an improvised melee weapon 5) There are balance issues with spell-storing ammunition (even if used as improvised melee weapons), and such items seem outside the scope of the game's intent. DM's are advised to disallow or limit spell-storing ammunition unless they are very comfortable with such balance issues.
Darth Sephiroth 02-04-07, 04:37 PM	They seem to be an Elven Clerics best friend and a reason to take a craft feat
CelestialBarbarian 02-04-07, 08:51 PM	Weapons have to be at least +1 to have further enhancements Obligatory notes regarding spell-storing on ranged weapons: 1) The random magic item creations charts are generally not exclusionary (i.e. you can make things, like scrolls, wands and potions, that are not listed). If it was the designers intent to have the weapon tables indicate excluded combinations, it does not seem supported by precedent. 2) Even if you are excluding certain combinations (based on those tables), there are still ranged weapons on the melee weapon table, and melee weapons on the ranged weapon table. You can still roll up ranged spell-storing weapons (like spell-storing throwing daggers and such), so the issue needs to be addressed regardless. 3) Strict RAW says that the wielder of a spell-storing weapon decides (after hitting their opponent) if the stored spell will be cast or not. To many this implies that a spell-storing throwing dagger would not function if thrown (since it is no longer 'wielded'). This is a DM call. 4) Even if a DM rules against #3, a spell-storing arrow could still theoretically be used as an improvised melee weapon 5) There are balance issues with spell-storing ammunition (even if used as improvised melee weapons), and such items seem outside the scope of the game's intent. DM's are advised to disallow or limit spell-storing ammunition unless they are very comfortable with such balance issues. These items, which appeared in 3.0, where not spell-storing items but single-use items, a cross between a weapon and a wondrous item. (Note, however, that they require Craft Magic Arms and Armor rather than Craft Wondrous Item; I think though for 3.5 I'll require both feats.) So while the debate over spell-storing ammunition might be interesting in its own right, it really doesn't apply here.
CelestialBarbarian 02-04-07, 11:48 PM	Thanks very much--that's very helpful! :cool: Edit: An arrow of cure critical heals and average of 25 hit points. An arrow of heal would cure 110 hit points. I decided to scale the price of the arrow of heal proportionately to the price of the arrow of cure critical wounds; 110/25 = 4.4. An arrow of cure critical wounds costs 2807, minus 7 for the masterwork arrow, equals 2800. 2800 x 4.4 = 12,320. 12,320 +7 = 12,327. I'm thinking about also allowing an arrow of greater healing with a market price of 19,047 that would cure 170 points of damage to the target. Does the price seem too inexpensive for that much healing, or does it sound about right? Thanks! :)
mato_hibiki 02-05-07, 04:02 PM	Personally, I like this idea. I'm going to wind up playing in a heavily undead infested campaign sometime in the near future, and I'll need these. Arrow of cure serious wounds, and manyshot. Not only deal damage to all the undead in range, but pelt your friends and heal them too! Just as good as a cleric casting mass cure spells in an undead mob! Me likey. Maybe somebody should come up with a ranged buff/healer build for this.
mvincent 02-05-07, 04:17 PM	while the debate over spell-storing ammunition might be interesting in its own right, it really doesn't apply here.Hey now: I was just helping clarify what other people were talking about. I even used small font so as not to intrude too much. You really can't expect threads not to deviate on these boards though. But yes (for anyone that wasn't already aware) spell-storing is entirely different from what the initial post was talking about.
CelestialBarbarian 02-05-07, 08:55 PM	Personally, I like this idea. I'm going to wind up playing in a heavily undead infested campaign sometime in the near future, and I'll need these. Arrow of cure serious wounds, and manyshot. Not only deal damage to all the undead in range, but pelt your friends and heal them too! Just as good as a cleric casting mass cure spells in an undead mob! Me likey. Maybe somebody should come up with a ranged buff/healer build for this. According to the text in Masters of the Wild, undead get to save for half damage.
CelestialBarbarian 02-05-07, 08:57 PM	Hey now: I was just helping clarify what other people were talking about. I even used small font so as not to intrude too much. You really can't expect threads not to deviate on these boards though. But yes (for anyone that wasn't already aware) spell-storing is entirely different from what the initial post was talking about. I didn't intend my comments as a criticism. I just meant that we don't need to resolve the spell storing on ammunition issue to price the arrows of curing.
RavenDrake 02-05-07, 11:14 PM	According to the text in Masters of the Wild, undead get to save for half damage. Correct, the arrows effectively cast the spell when they strike, which means it will affect creatures as the spell would (Undead get a save for half, Golems would be immune to thier effect, etc). I am curious, though, as to whether anyone would allow arrows of Inflict to exist at the same price...
CelestialBarbarian 02-06-07, 01:27 AM	Correct, the arrows effectively cast the spell when they strike, which means it will affect creatures as the spell would (Undead get a save for half, Golems would be immune to thier effect, etc). I am curious, though, as to whether anyone would allow arrows of Inflict to exist at the same price... I thought about that, but as my players aren't asking about it, I'm not going to worry about it now. :)
Adrian_Crane 02-06-07, 10:38 AM	Another approach: hypodermics. Get a bunch of Tiny/Diminutive arrows of Cure Wounds, and hand them out to people who can't UMD wands or cast healing spells. To use them, just jab yourself with one (like drinking a potion, provokes AoO). The question is, are they better than a potion? You could certainly carry more, and they're not as fragile (especially if you use teeny metal crossbow bolts instead). It's an interesting alternate concept, though.
CelestialBarbarian 02-06-07, 10:41 AM	Another approach: hypodermics. Get a bunch of Tiny/Diminutive arrows of Cure Wounds, and hand them out to people who can't UMD wands or cast healing spells. To use them, just jab yourself with one (like drinking a potion, provokes AoO). The question is, are they better than a potion? You could certainly carry more, and they're not as fragile (especially if you use teeny metal crossbow bolts instead). It's an interesting alternate concept, though. Expensive for the average person, but very clever for PCs! Of course this could be leading down the slipperly slope to taking an idea that's good in concept and abusing it. :)
The Crystal Mind 02-07-07, 10:17 AM	Yes, it could be abused, but then, just look at the Char Op boards :) Personally, I like the Diminuitive crossbow bolts, as you could use them underwater. Ever try to uncork a potion under water?
CelestialBarbarian 02-07-07, 10:34 AM	Yes, it could be abused, but then, just look at the Char Op boards :) Personally, I like the Diminuitive crossbow bolts, as you could use them underwater. Ever try to uncork a potion under water? My current players wouldn't abuse these things as they're not optimizers, much less munchkins. I did for a while have a munchkiny player in the group, although most of his abuses were based on not knowing the rules, like using Maximize Spell to maximize the d20 roll on a dispel magic, and casting an offensive spell to "break" your time stop and do damage to your enemies. At one point a flying member of the party dropped a wand of magic missiles and the falling damage destroyed it; I was going to have it explode, doing damage equal to the remaining charges, but as I joked about it the munkiny player's wheels started turning and I could see him planning to use dropped wands as bombs, so I didn't have it explode. I think the explosion would have been fun under the circumstances, but with the munchkiny player around I couldn't afford to establish a precedent that he would then abuse. We've since parted company with him. :) Anyway I think I'm going to allow the various arrows of curing/healing as follows: Specific Weapon Market Price arrow of cure light wounds 107 gp arrow of cure moderate wounds 607 gp arrow of cure serious wounds 1,507 gp arrow of cure critical wounds 2,807 gp arrow of cure fatal wounds 4,507 gp arrow of healing 12,327 gp arrow of greater healing 19,047 gp Do the prices seem reasonable, especially for the arrow of healing and arrow of greater healing? Are those prices high enough for what they do? Thanks! :)