Arrows of Spell Storing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arrows of Spell Storing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CrazyMarv
10-07-06, 07:23 PM In the DMG is says that ammunition such as arrows can be enchanted 50 at a time. Me and my gaming group were wondering if this means that all 50 count as 1 weapon. In the case of Spell Storing would it let you make 50 arrows and put an inflict spell into all 50 at once? Or would you need 50 spells, one for each arrow?

The main idea is using 50 Shurikens and the Master Thrower class to lay the beatdown, then pick up the Shuriken after the fight and repeat later. If it only takes one spell per 50 shuriken it would work rather well. Anyway, we're not sure how this works and were wondering what everyone else thinks.
Rulebook
10-07-06, 07:25 PM hey quick, show me where spell storing is, on the ranged weapon enhancements

cmon... it'll be easy once you can answer that one.
Titan W
10-07-06, 07:30 PM In the DMG is says that ammunition such as arrows can be enchanted 50 at a time. Me and my gaming group were wondering if this means that all 50 count as 1 weapon. In the case of Spell Storing would it let you make 50 arrows and put an inflict spell into all 50 at once? Or would you need 50 spells, one for each arrow?

The main idea is using 50 Shurikens and the Master Thrower class to lay the beatdown, then pick up the Shuriken after the fight and repeat later. If it only takes one spell per 50 shuriken it would work rather well. Anyway, we're not sure how this works and were wondering what everyone else thinks.

What the above poster said plus the fact that shuriken and other enchanted ammunition are destroyed after use and thus cannot be recovered.
Dalthbar
10-07-06, 07:30 PM First, spell storing isn't in the ranged weapons list, and I'd argue that this extends to their ammo as well. It ONLY appears in the melee weapon list.

Second, the spell storing text states:
Any time the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires.
Many people (myself included) interperate this as meaning that if you're not wielding the weapon then you can't activate the item (even as a free action). This would mean you could use an arrow as an improvised weapon in your hand and activate it, but not when it's fired from a bow (assuming that you have a DM that allows it in the first place!)

Third, the spell storing ability allows you to cast spells into an item. After you're done, you have 50 separate items that you can cast spells into _individually_. There's no reason to treat the 50 pieces of ammo as "one weapon". The "50 for the price of one regulare weapon" ammo rule for pricing magical enchantments is just for pricing - not for any other aspect of the item(s) created.
DragonChild_
10-07-06, 07:31 PM It doesn't matter if spell storing isn't on the ranged weapon enhancements. You can still have Spell Storing arrows, just like you can have Keen Arrows. If you counted only weapons that were on that chart, then you'd never be able to make non-core enhancements on arrows. The only enhancements you can't put on arrows are those that specifically say you can't. Spell storing is not one of them. Save your snark and shove it, because you're wrong. That "list" is ONLY for random enhancements. If it wasn't, why would they mention if you can put stuff on arrows or not in the text?

As to the OP's question...

From my understanding, you'd need to cast an inflict spell 50 times. However, shurikens count as ammunition, which means that after you throw them, they're destroyed (unless you miss, in which case they have a 50% chance of being destroyed). Daggers, and similiar weapons wouldn't be destroyed. However, you'd have to recast inflict spells into them, and would need to pay full price for each.
runestar
10-08-06, 01:06 AM It does seem possible, though I would rule that you need to cast each spell to be stored separately for each arrow, so 50 times for 50 arrows.:)
baltasar_basilius
10-08-06, 01:31 AM hey quick, show me where spell storing is, on the ranged weapon enhancements

cmon... it'll be easy once you can answer that one.
you're showing an "argumentum ad ignorantiam". simply because you aren't given direct examples of existence, something therefore cannot be. yes, arrows can be spell storing. If they happen to take spell storing off the melee weapon enhancement section right before printing, would you suddenly not be able to place it on ranged NOR melee? the description for spell storing says nothing of ranged. and if you dont happen to like that, you can make a house rule if you want.

i look at spell storing arrows like this. a spell storing longsword can be used much more than 50 times, but a spell must be cast for each individual hit. will all these arrows be used at once? or will they be used at diffrent times like casting multiple spells? if a wizard was planning on making multiple scrolls of the same thing at once, would he cast one spell for all? The DMG or another books doesn't address your question directly, but common sense says no. and im guessing your dm will say that too.

And why would you want all your arrows to be the same? i think the best use for making spell storing arrows would be to make tons of diffrent ones for diffrent situations you might be in. i think it would rock if someone played with something like a batman's utility belt of arrows.
Dalthbar
10-08-06, 01:39 AM My issue with spell storing ammo is that there's no way to activate it correctly.

If you activate it as a free action while you're holding it, it can't go off on the target. This may be a cute way of casting a cure spell ahead of time by your healer and heal yourself before you shoot/throw, but that's not what we're talking about, now is it?

Once the ammo is thrown or shot it's no longer in your possession (e.g., you're not wielding it). At this point, you can't activate it. So when it hits the target, nothing happens (aside from the destruction of said ammo).

In order for this to work, you need to change how the spell storing enchantment works. This wouldn't be unbalanced or difficult, but it'd need to be done in order for it to work.
risner
10-08-06, 09:51 AM The rules appear to allow 50 +1 spell storing arrows for the price of 8,000 gp.

You would absolutely have to cast 50 spells to "charge" them all.

They would break on a hit and they would still retain the spell on a miss (if you won the 50% chance.)

I wouldn't allow you to have different spells in the 50 arrows (since all other weapon enhancements provide the same bonus when used on arrows, I would not allow 50 arrows with 50 or even 2 different spells.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CrazyMarv 10-07-06, 07:23 PM	In the DMG is says that ammunition such as arrows can be enchanted 50 at a time. Me and my gaming group were wondering if this means that all 50 count as 1 weapon. In the case of Spell Storing would it let you make 50 arrows and put an inflict spell into all 50 at once? Or would you need 50 spells, one for each arrow? The main idea is using 50 Shurikens and the Master Thrower class to lay the beatdown, then pick up the Shuriken after the fight and repeat later. If it only takes one spell per 50 shuriken it would work rather well. Anyway, we're not sure how this works and were wondering what everyone else thinks.
Rulebook 10-07-06, 07:25 PM	hey quick, show me where spell storing is, on the ranged weapon enhancements cmon... it'll be easy once you can answer that one.
Titan W 10-07-06, 07:30 PM	In the DMG is says that ammunition such as arrows can be enchanted 50 at a time. Me and my gaming group were wondering if this means that all 50 count as 1 weapon. In the case of Spell Storing would it let you make 50 arrows and put an inflict spell into all 50 at once? Or would you need 50 spells, one for each arrow? The main idea is using 50 Shurikens and the Master Thrower class to lay the beatdown, then pick up the Shuriken after the fight and repeat later. If it only takes one spell per 50 shuriken it would work rather well. Anyway, we're not sure how this works and were wondering what everyone else thinks. What the above poster said plus the fact that shuriken and other enchanted ammunition are destroyed after use and thus cannot be recovered.
Dalthbar 10-07-06, 07:30 PM	First, spell storing isn't in the ranged weapons list, and I'd argue that this extends to their ammo as well. It ONLY appears in the melee weapon list. Second, the spell storing text states: Any time the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires. Many people (myself included) interperate this as meaning that if you're not wielding the weapon then you can't activate the item (even as a free action). This would mean you could use an arrow as an improvised weapon in your hand and activate it, but not when it's fired from a bow (assuming that you have a DM that allows it in the first place!) Third, the spell storing ability allows you to cast spells into an item. After you're done, you have 50 separate items that you can cast spells into _individually_. There's no reason to treat the 50 pieces of ammo as "one weapon". The "50 for the price of one regulare weapon" ammo rule for pricing magical enchantments is just for pricing - not for any other aspect of the item(s) created.
DragonChild_ 10-07-06, 07:31 PM	It doesn't matter if spell storing isn't on the ranged weapon enhancements. You can still have Spell Storing arrows, just like you can have Keen Arrows. If you counted only weapons that were on that chart, then you'd never be able to make non-core enhancements on arrows. The only enhancements you can't put on arrows are those that specifically say you can't. Spell storing is not one of them. Save your snark and shove it, because you're wrong. That "list" is ONLY for random enhancements. If it wasn't, why would they mention if you can put stuff on arrows or not in the text? As to the OP's question... From my understanding, you'd need to cast an inflict spell 50 times. However, shurikens count as ammunition, which means that after you throw them, they're destroyed (unless you miss, in which case they have a 50% chance of being destroyed). Daggers, and similiar weapons wouldn't be destroyed. However, you'd have to recast inflict spells into them, and would need to pay full price for each.
runestar 10-08-06, 01:06 AM	It does seem possible, though I would rule that you need to cast each spell to be stored separately for each arrow, so 50 times for 50 arrows.:)
baltasar_basilius 10-08-06, 01:31 AM	hey quick, show me where spell storing is, on the ranged weapon enhancements cmon... it'll be easy once you can answer that one. you're showing an "argumentum ad ignorantiam". simply because you aren't given direct examples of existence, something therefore cannot be. yes, arrows can be spell storing. If they happen to take spell storing off the melee weapon enhancement section right before printing, would you suddenly not be able to place it on ranged NOR melee? the description for spell storing says nothing of ranged. and if you dont happen to like that, you can make a house rule if you want. i look at spell storing arrows like this. a spell storing longsword can be used much more than 50 times, but a spell must be cast for each individual hit. will all these arrows be used at once? or will they be used at diffrent times like casting multiple spells? if a wizard was planning on making multiple scrolls of the same thing at once, would he cast one spell for all? The DMG or another books doesn't address your question directly, but common sense says no. and im guessing your dm will say that too. And why would you want all your arrows to be the same? i think the best use for making spell storing arrows would be to make tons of diffrent ones for diffrent situations you might be in. i think it would rock if someone played with something like a batman's utility belt of arrows.
Dalthbar 10-08-06, 01:39 AM	My issue with spell storing ammo is that there's no way to activate it correctly. If you activate it as a free action while you're holding it, it can't go off on the target. This may be a cute way of casting a cure spell ahead of time by your healer and heal yourself before you shoot/throw, but that's not what we're talking about, now is it? Once the ammo is thrown or shot it's no longer in your possession (e.g., you're not wielding it). At this point, you can't activate it. So when it hits the target, nothing happens (aside from the destruction of said ammo). In order for this to work, you need to change how the spell storing enchantment works. This wouldn't be unbalanced or difficult, but it'd need to be done in order for it to work.
risner 10-08-06, 09:51 AM	The rules appear to allow 50 +1 spell storing arrows for the price of 8,000 gp. You would absolutely have to cast 50 spells to "charge" them all. They would break on a hit and they would still retain the spell on a miss (if you won the 50% chance.) I wouldn't allow you to have different spells in the 50 arrows (since all other weapon enhancements provide the same bonus when used on arrows, I would not allow 50 arrows with 50 or even 2 different spells.)