Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RedWyrm 07-17-07, 06:49 PM	Can an Assassin's Death Attack kill Monster Larger than him? And Monster that the DM consider Bosses?? If he can, i think that is very unfair, because with one blow (for example) he can kill a powerfull Behir. Please answer.
DM Zoc 07-17-07, 06:53 PM	Unless it says somewhere that you can't target something larger than you (I've seen some that do), then it's a valid target. Whether the DM considers something a "boss" or not has no effect on the game rules. Note that large creatures tend to have good Fort saves, and will probably resist the death attack. Also keep in mind that a level 8/9 spellcaster can cast spells that kill instantly, without three rounds of study.
Eikre 07-18-07, 01:22 AM	Aha. Kneejerking at it's finest.
RobbyPants 07-18-07, 12:20 PM	Note that large creatures tend to have good Fort saves, and will probably resist the death attack. Also keep in mind that a level 8/9 spellcaster can cast spells that kill instantly, without three rounds of study. Aha. Kneejerking at it's finest. Agreed and agreed. Unless the assassin character takes the full 10 levels of the PrC, has a good Int mod, and boosts his save DC with Ability Focus, most enemies worth Death Attacking will resist the attempt. Even still, many might still resist it. If you give your assassin a 16 or 17 on Int, lets say, his DC will only be 14 at level 1. At that point, it's not too hard for something with lots of HP to make a DC 14 Fort save. If the creature doesn't have lots of HP, then chances are, a regular Sneak Attack will do the trick anyway. If his Int is increased to 20 by assassin level 10 (level 15 character), and he has Ability Focus(Death Attack), the DC will be 27. At that point, it's starting to be an issue, but at level 15, a lot of "bosses" will either be immune to crits, have a high Fort save, or be able to see the assassin before he can set up the attack in three rounds. A clever DM can come up with dozens of ways to twart this without it looking like cheesy DM metagaming. And, in all realism, most evil bosses of any real power are probably going to go to great lengths to protect themselves against assassination attempts.
Khael 07-18-07, 12:55 PM	If he can, i think that is very unfair, because with one blow (for example) he can kill a powerfull Behir. Please answer. Given you sacrificed three rounds, during which it is entirely possible that Behir was eating your party, to do so, granting said Behir a save it is good at, and using RobbyPants' assasin build above, requires a 6 or more to overcome... No. I do not think it is unfair. Even if you could sneak up on it to get those three rounds without getting your party in trouble frankly, I'd say that was poor planning on the DM's part - His 'boss' was never going to be a good one if he was relying entirely on the party assassin to fail at what could be called his purpose for existing. As it stands below are some good points to death attack: Instant death/paralysis on failed save. And some bad ones: Takes three rounds study. Close combat only - Open to AoO most likely You get one go, then have to restudy- miss or passed save irrespective And lastly: While studying the victim, the assassin can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the assassin or recognize the assassin as an enemy. Which means you pretty much get only one death attack per encounter - after that everyone knows you're hostile. For everyone viewing, in no way am I saying assassin aren't useful little blighters - just not exactly overpowered.
zelf_gale 07-18-07, 03:46 PM	As a DM I'd fudge a die roll for a NPC only if it kills the NPC or a PC at a really bad time, as in climatically critical time or potentially plot killing time.
TheDirfe 07-18-07, 03:55 PM	As a DM I'd fudge a die roll for a NPC only if it kills the NPC or a PC at a really bad time, as in climatically critical time or potentially plot killing time. :eek: Naughty naughty, don't go fudging the dice. If it happens in a climatically critical time, it makes for a more interesting one.
Vharuck 07-18-07, 04:02 PM	However, a Death Attack can only be used with a Sneak Attack, and according to the Rogue class description's definition of and rules for Sneak Attack: A rogue can sneak attack only living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks. The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach. Bold mine. So sneak attacking a massive kraken when you can only reach the ends of the tentacles seems illogical, and the class ability even allows these exceptions to occur.
RobbyPants 07-18-07, 04:37 PM	As a DM I'd fudge a die roll for a NPC only if it kills the NPC or a PC at a really bad time, as in climatically critical time or potentially plot killing time. I hope nobody in your game plays assassins or save-or-die casters. :eek: It begs the question: why even roll the dice if you know the outcome before hand? A better (IMO) solution would be to have your BBEG have protections against certain types of one-hit-kill effects. It's one of those things that just makes sense in the game world. You don't get to be a BBEG by leaving your back exposed all the time.
Geogoose 07-18-07, 04:47 PM	As a DM I'd fudge a die roll for a NPC only if it kills the NPC or a PC at a really bad time, as in climatically critical time or potentially plot killing time. What constitutes a really bad time? If you allowed the NPC to engage the PC's in combat, why would it be bad if the PC's won? Think of Big Trouble in Little China. A quick surprise kill on the BBEG can still be fun and entertaining. Go with the flow.