Attack of Opportunity and Regular Attack [Archive] - Wizards Community

Attack of Opportunity and Regular Attack [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheScribe
09-23-04, 01:29 AM There seems to be a contradiction in the rules. On one page it says that an AoO is an "extra" action in addition to your regular action.

Then on the next page it seems to imply that if you make your regular attack after making an AoO it is at a penalty and only if you can make multiple attacks per round. Which is correct?

Also, if you make your attack of opportunity after your regular attack (which it seems that anybody can do) the AoO is not subject to penalty.

Can someone please clarify this?
FenixNightShade
09-23-04, 03:14 AM Ummm

SRD quote:

You make your attack of opportunity, however, at your normal attack bonus-even if you’ve already attacked in the round

i think this answers your question.
Joe Khol
09-23-04, 07:52 AM It would help if you said which edition and which book, gave the page numbers and quoted the lines you think contradict each other.
TheScribe
09-23-04, 12:17 PM From the 3.5 rules

Sometimes a combatant in a melee lets her guard down. In this case, combatants near her can take advantage of her lapse in defense to attack her for free. These free attacks are called attacks of opportunity.
and then...

An experienced character gets additional regular melee attacks (by using the full attack action), but at a lower attack bonus. You make your attack of opportunity, however, at your normal attack bonus—even if you’ve already attacked in the round.

An attack of opportunity “interrupts” the normal flow of actions in the round. If an attack of opportunity is provoked, immediately resolve the attack of opportunity, then continue with the next character’s turn (or complete the current turn, if the attack of opportunity was provoked in the midst of a character’s turn).

The way I read this is even if you have already attacked in the current round, you can use your Attack of Opportunity at no penalty at some later point in the same round, thus effectively giving the attacker an extra free attack, but...

If a player is lower on the initiative ladder and makes an Attack of Opportunity early in the round, that player can only make their regular attack if they have multiple attacks per round and then at the penalty for multiple attacks.

Is this correct? And if so, what is the logic behind it--it seems to me that an Attack of Opportunity should just simply always be counted as a second attack and penalized appropriately.
FitzNighteyes
09-23-04, 12:54 PM Is this correct?

No.

The two sentances are saying: Normally, if you have more than one attack when using a full-attack, they decrease by 5 for each attack after the first. However, in the special case of an AoO, the AoO always uses the full attack bonuses.

That's all. An AoO never counts as one of your normal attacks for the round.

Also, barring the Combat Reflexes feat, you can only take AoOs after your first action. Characters get one AoO (or # = Dex with Comb. Ref.) per round, and a round is from the beginning of the characters turn to right before the beginning of their next turn. "Lower on the initiative ladder" has no meaning after the first round of combat, since combat initiative is circular. The limit on AoOs per round is not from init count 20 to init count 1.
Gold Katana
09-23-04, 12:55 PM No. AoO's are "free". They are made with your highest BAB regardless of whether you've already attacked. They have no impact on your regular full attack action, no matter when they occur.

Edit - well stated, Fitz.
TheScribe
09-23-04, 01:14 PM Okay, thanks very much guys. The help is much appreciated.

I've only recently started playing third edition after a ten year break from D&D, which is why I don't really have a grasp of the new rules yet.
FitzNighteyes
09-23-04, 01:42 PM The initiative system takes getting used to, since this is the first edition that has circular rounds. In the old editions, each "round" was a discrete thing. In this sytem, rounds (from the old perspective) exist only to count down from init count 20 (or more) to init count 1, ie determine action order.

You don't declare an action at the "begining" of a round, since there isn't one (except possibly in round 1). You declare your action when it gets to your point in the initiative count. And there is no acting first or last after you start combat, just a sequence of actions.

And when something lasts for a number or rounds, it starts when you take the action (on your turn), and ends right before your turn that number of "rounds" (ie cycles from one turn to another) later. Another way to look at it is from one point in the init count to the same count when it comes up again (although that can be problematic when two characters have the same init count).
nodwyck
09-23-04, 01:47 PM No. AoO's are "free". They are made with your highest BAB regardless of whether you've already attacked. They have no impact on your regular full attack action, no matter when they occur.

Edit - well stated, Fitz.

and of course, if you have used flurry of blows, TWF, power attack, combat expertise or anything else that gave you a penalty to your regular attack (until your next turn), the penalties apply for the AoO, too.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheScribe 09-23-04, 01:29 AM	There seems to be a contradiction in the rules. On one page it says that an AoO is an "extra" action in addition to your regular action. Then on the next page it seems to imply that if you make your regular attack after making an AoO it is at a penalty and only if you can make multiple attacks per round. Which is correct? Also, if you make your attack of opportunity after your regular attack (which it seems that anybody can do) the AoO is not subject to penalty. Can someone please clarify this?
FenixNightShade 09-23-04, 03:14 AM	Ummm SRD quote: You make your attack of opportunity, however, at your normal attack bonus-even if you’ve already attacked in the round i think this answers your question.
Joe Khol 09-23-04, 07:52 AM	It would help if you said which edition and which book, gave the page numbers and quoted the lines you think contradict each other.
TheScribe 09-23-04, 12:17 PM	From the 3.5 rules Sometimes a combatant in a melee lets her guard down. In this case, combatants near her can take advantage of her lapse in defense to attack her for free. These free attacks are called attacks of opportunity. and then... An experienced character gets additional regular melee attacks (by using the full attack action), but at a lower attack bonus. You make your attack of opportunity, however, at your normal attack bonus—even if you’ve already attacked in the round. An attack of opportunity “interrupts” the normal flow of actions in the round. If an attack of opportunity is provoked, immediately resolve the attack of opportunity, then continue with the next character’s turn (or complete the current turn, if the attack of opportunity was provoked in the midst of a character’s turn). The way I read this is even if you have already attacked in the current round, you can use your Attack of Opportunity at no penalty at some later point in the same round, thus effectively giving the attacker an extra free attack, but... If a player is lower on the initiative ladder and makes an Attack of Opportunity early in the round, that player can only make their regular attack if they have multiple attacks per round and then at the penalty for multiple attacks. Is this correct? And if so, what is the logic behind it--it seems to me that an Attack of Opportunity should just simply always be counted as a second attack and penalized appropriately.
FitzNighteyes 09-23-04, 12:54 PM	Is this correct? No. The two sentances are saying: Normally, if you have more than one attack when using a full-attack, they decrease by 5 for each attack after the first. However, in the special case of an AoO, the AoO always uses the full attack bonuses. That's all. An AoO never counts as one of your normal attacks for the round. Also, barring the Combat Reflexes feat, you can only take AoOs after your first action. Characters get one AoO (or # = Dex with Comb. Ref.) per round, and a round is from the beginning of the characters turn to right before the beginning of their next turn. "Lower on the initiative ladder" has no meaning after the first round of combat, since combat initiative is circular. The limit on AoOs per round is not from init count 20 to init count 1.
Gold Katana 09-23-04, 12:55 PM	No. AoO's are "free". They are made with your highest BAB regardless of whether you've already attacked. They have no impact on your regular full attack action, no matter when they occur. Edit - well stated, Fitz.
TheScribe 09-23-04, 01:14 PM	Okay, thanks very much guys. The help is much appreciated. I've only recently started playing third edition after a ten year break from D&D, which is why I don't really have a grasp of the new rules yet.
FitzNighteyes 09-23-04, 01:42 PM	The initiative system takes getting used to, since this is the first edition that has circular rounds. In the old editions, each "round" was a discrete thing. In this sytem, rounds (from the old perspective) exist only to count down from init count 20 (or more) to init count 1, ie determine action order. You don't declare an action at the "begining" of a round, since there isn't one (except possibly in round 1). You declare your action when it gets to your point in the initiative count. And there is no acting first or last after you start combat, just a sequence of actions. And when something lasts for a number or rounds, it starts when you take the action (on your turn), and ends right before your turn that number of "rounds" (ie cycles from one turn to another) later. Another way to look at it is from one point in the init count to the same count when it comes up again (although that can be problematic when two characters have the same init count).
nodwyck 09-23-04, 01:47 PM	No. AoO's are "free". They are made with your highest BAB regardless of whether you've already attacked. They have no impact on your regular full attack action, no matter when they occur. Edit - well stated, Fitz. and of course, if you have used flurry of blows, TWF, power attack, combat expertise or anything else that gave you a penalty to your regular attack (until your next turn), the penalties apply for the AoO, too.