attack overflows to damage [Archive] - Wizards Community

attack overflows to damage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
slaveryISfreedom
10-23-06, 02:37 AM What do you think of these houserules.

weapon focus - gives +1 to attack (no change)
greater weap focus - +2 to attack (no change)
weapon spec - gives +1 to attack (different)
stacks with weap focus and great weap focus
greater weap spec - +2 to attack (different)
replaces weap spec and stacks w/weap focus and greater weap focus

summary: so someone with all four of these feats gets a +4 to attack using the appropriate weapon

ok, that said,
for damage, roll normally for damage based on your weapon
do not add your str modifier, or 1.5 x str mod for a 2 handed weap, to that roll for dmg
instead for every point above the opponents ac you convert that into extra damage that you add to your roll.

example: goblin AC 13.
I make an attack with a dagger I roll a d20 and get a 8.
I add my attack bonus of 7, for a total of 15.

I hit, now I roll damage and get a 1 (result from the 1d4 for the dagger) and I add the overflow from my attack, which was 2.

thus doing 3 damage to the goblin.

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the reason I'm toying with this idea is because people that are very accurate should do more damage imo. for example we have an elf with 10 str 20 dex. level 1 fighter with weapon finesse.
normally he'd have +6 attack bonus and do 1d4+0 damage with a dagger.
with my mod he'd do 1d4+overflow from attack.

another thought that I just had was for rogues. using above houserules, replace each +1d6 sneak attack damage with a +1 to attack bonus that stacks with itself. (don't forget ppl you are sneak attacking will be flat footed so even more dmg)
----------------------------------
any thoughts are welcome
thanks again.
VonRichthofen
10-23-06, 05:39 AM Very bad idea.

You'll see only uber-dex builds in the future, since Strength doesn't do anything Dex can't do. (apart from ´carrying capacity, but do tell that to a min-maxer).

Completely breaks balance.

And, btw, your recast Weapon Spec feats aren't very logical either...
Ryu Katsuragi
10-23-06, 06:00 AM I'll admit, I like the idea. Then again, I always played a lot of World of Darkness (where I loved the idea that extra skill above what you need to hit improved damage through superior placement - Even if it did lead to no-one improving Strength, as Dexterity then effectively improved to-hit and damage)

As for uber-Dex builds... I don't see it. Only problem I can see is uber-Str builds getting even stronger. (As now, the monsters they could barely hit with Power Attack, they can simply attack normally - They'd just improve damage through overflow, even if it wasn't as much)

What about spellcasters? With rolls to-hit? Would a Psion's energy ray, requiring a touch hit get this bonus? (Which is where I can see the real abuse coming in. A 20th level Psion could easily do in the region of 20d6+80 to +90 with this rule (Great Wyrm, I'm looking at you)

Edit: Sorry, I just looked a little lower. I really do -not- agree with changing the Rogue's sneak attack. As it is, they're not the best of combatants (average BAB, low HD) and sneak attack is how they keep up with the group. Following these rules, the Fighter will easily be dealing out more damage through overflow.
jokotoko
10-23-06, 06:51 AM Hmm, I don't really like this change. For one, I would make the first level spell "true strike" an absolute killer at low to medium levels.
Second, it gives ranged attackers a huge benefit. At the moment, it is hard for an archer to get a decent damage bonus (at least if you stay core, not sure otherwise). With this system, the average archer is going to be far more deadly than (s)he is now.
VonRichthofen
10-23-06, 07:23 AM As for uber-Dex builds... I don't see it. Only problem I can see is uber-Str builds getting even stronger.

Why is that? Strength no longer gives damage bonus, thus it is a dump stat as long as you can carry whatever you need.

Dex gives the same as Str does, + Initiative, AC, AoO, Reflex saves & more skill-related advantages.

So yes, I point it out again: Strength becomes a dump stat, you may kindly forget about your uber-strength builds.
Archangel62
10-23-06, 07:26 AM I'd like to add the amount of confusion this would create when it comes to certain spells or abilites. Does this also mean that I deal more damage with targeted spells? Not to mention that it gets even worse as we step out of core and suddenly this design shreds everything universally. The thing is that this design will murder players...not to mention that dexterity will now be the only viable stat for combat.
Ryu Katsuragi
10-23-06, 07:26 AM Why is that? Strength no longer gives damage bonus, thus it is a dump stat as long as you can carry whatever you need.

Dex gives the same as Str does, + Initiative, AC, AoO, Reflex saves & more skill-related advantages.

So yes, I point it out again: Strength becomes a dump stat, you may kindly forget about your uber-strength builds.

Oh, sorry. o.o I only just noticed the post about that.

Yeah... without Strength bonus to AC, everyone will just be using two-weapon Dex builds.

What about classes like Swashbuckler? Do they still gain Intelligence to damage?
VonRichthofen
10-23-06, 07:55 AM Yeah... without Strength bonus to AC...

:confused: Now you're having me confused indeed! :confused:

Thought you were saying damage... ;)
Ryu Katsuragi
10-23-06, 07:59 AM Ugh. x.x Sorry. Brain isn't working right on no sleep in two days, a whole bunch of energy drinks and pep pills.
VonRichthofen
10-23-06, 08:02 AM Please don't ruin your health for D&D - it's not worth it in the long run ;)
Archangel62
10-23-06, 08:04 AM I think what he meant was this, dex gives bonuses to AC, now with this rig it also gives bonuses to hit and damage. There is now no reason to ever wear heavy armor, instead it is best to get an impossibly high dexterity score, wear bracers of armor +8 and wear +5 Tunics of Thurrinak.
ZinFeir
10-23-06, 08:28 AM Am I reading it wrong or are you saying your To Hit - There AC = Extra damage? I'm all for that! Mosly because at 8th level I'm at +19 to hit, without dex I'm still at +14. I have a level in mage as well, so I'll True Strike for another +20 so thats +34 and say I roll a 10, thats 44 and its AC at best is a 20. Roll damage is a d8 with my bow is 4(average) is 28 damage! And what if I use Hunter's Mercy? Thats another +8 to damage which is 36. And the artifact wand of haste is beautyful, because thats one attack, I still have 3 more. That would classes with full BAB much more stronger. . .
Ryu Katsuragi
10-23-06, 08:32 AM No. He means, attack -over- their AC is extra damage. So, if you rolled 14 to hit, the enemy had 10AC, you do +4 damage.

Also, notice the under this system, Rogues get +1 per dice of sneak attack, not 1d6, and Strength no longer gives damage. BAB classes are actually hurt more. (No more decent Power Attacking)
slaveryISfreedom
10-24-06, 01:47 AM ok so you don't like it as stated.

what if I add the overflow ability only to weapons that you have applied the weapon finesse feat too (also allow you to apply weap finesse to ranged weapons.) if weapon finesse is not used then normal rules apply.

oh and good point about the true strike bit. For further info, our campaign is a zero magic campaign.
Nezkrul
10-24-06, 03:12 AM ok, well, heres my take.

the game's called dungeons and DRAGONS

you know what a dragon's base attack is + its insane str mod + the spells it can cast to boost its attack rolls? dead players.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
slaveryISfreedom 10-23-06, 02:37 AM	What do you think of these houserules. weapon focus - gives +1 to attack (no change) greater weap focus - +2 to attack (no change) weapon spec - gives +1 to attack (different) stacks with weap focus and great weap focus greater weap spec - +2 to attack (different) replaces weap spec and stacks w/weap focus and greater weap focus summary: so someone with all four of these feats gets a +4 to attack using the appropriate weapon ok, that said, for damage, roll normally for damage based on your weapon do not add your str modifier, or 1.5 x str mod for a 2 handed weap, to that roll for dmg instead for every point above the opponents ac you convert that into extra damage that you add to your roll. example: goblin AC 13. I make an attack with a dagger I roll a d20 and get a 8. I add my attack bonus of 7, for a total of 15. I hit, now I roll damage and get a 1 (result from the 1d4 for the dagger) and I add the overflow from my attack, which was 2. thus doing 3 damage to the goblin. ---------------------------------- the reason I'm toying with this idea is because people that are very accurate should do more damage imo. for example we have an elf with 10 str 20 dex. level 1 fighter with weapon finesse. normally he'd have +6 attack bonus and do 1d4+0 damage with a dagger. with my mod he'd do 1d4+overflow from attack. another thought that I just had was for rogues. using above houserules, replace each +1d6 sneak attack damage with a +1 to attack bonus that stacks with itself. (don't forget ppl you are sneak attacking will be flat footed so even more dmg) ---------------------------------- any thoughts are welcome thanks again.
VonRichthofen 10-23-06, 05:39 AM	Very bad idea. You'll see only uber-dex builds in the future, since Strength doesn't do anything Dex can't do. (apart from ´carrying capacity, but do tell that to a min-maxer). Completely breaks balance. And, btw, your recast Weapon Spec feats aren't very logical either...
Ryu Katsuragi 10-23-06, 06:00 AM	I'll admit, I like the idea. Then again, I always played a lot of World of Darkness (where I loved the idea that extra skill above what you need to hit improved damage through superior placement - Even if it did lead to no-one improving Strength, as Dexterity then effectively improved to-hit and damage) As for uber-Dex builds... I don't see it. Only problem I can see is uber-Str builds getting even stronger. (As now, the monsters they could barely hit with Power Attack, they can simply attack normally - They'd just improve damage through overflow, even if it wasn't as much) What about spellcasters? With rolls to-hit? Would a Psion's energy ray, requiring a touch hit get this bonus? (Which is where I can see the real abuse coming in. A 20th level Psion could easily do in the region of 20d6+80 to +90 with this rule (Great Wyrm, I'm looking at you) Edit: Sorry, I just looked a little lower. I really do -not- agree with changing the Rogue's sneak attack. As it is, they're not the best of combatants (average BAB, low HD) and sneak attack is how they keep up with the group. Following these rules, the Fighter will easily be dealing out more damage through overflow.
jokotoko 10-23-06, 06:51 AM	Hmm, I don't really like this change. For one, I would make the first level spell "true strike" an absolute killer at low to medium levels. Second, it gives ranged attackers a huge benefit. At the moment, it is hard for an archer to get a decent damage bonus (at least if you stay core, not sure otherwise). With this system, the average archer is going to be far more deadly than (s)he is now.
VonRichthofen 10-23-06, 07:23 AM	As for uber-Dex builds... I don't see it. Only problem I can see is uber-Str builds getting even stronger. Why is that? Strength no longer gives damage bonus, thus it is a dump stat as long as you can carry whatever you need. Dex gives the same as Str does, + Initiative, AC, AoO, Reflex saves & more skill-related advantages. So yes, I point it out again: Strength becomes a dump stat, you may kindly forget about your uber-strength builds.
Archangel62 10-23-06, 07:26 AM	I'd like to add the amount of confusion this would create when it comes to certain spells or abilites. Does this also mean that I deal more damage with targeted spells? Not to mention that it gets even worse as we step out of core and suddenly this design shreds everything universally. The thing is that this design will murder players...not to mention that dexterity will now be the only viable stat for combat.
Ryu Katsuragi 10-23-06, 07:26 AM	Why is that? Strength no longer gives damage bonus, thus it is a dump stat as long as you can carry whatever you need. Dex gives the same as Str does, + Initiative, AC, AoO, Reflex saves & more skill-related advantages. So yes, I point it out again: Strength becomes a dump stat, you may kindly forget about your uber-strength builds. Oh, sorry. o.o I only just noticed the post about that. Yeah... without Strength bonus to AC, everyone will just be using two-weapon Dex builds. What about classes like Swashbuckler? Do they still gain Intelligence to damage?
VonRichthofen 10-23-06, 07:55 AM	Yeah... without Strength bonus to AC... :confused: Now you're having me confused indeed! :confused: Thought you were saying damage... ;)
Ryu Katsuragi 10-23-06, 07:59 AM	Ugh. x.x Sorry. Brain isn't working right on no sleep in two days, a whole bunch of energy drinks and pep pills.
VonRichthofen 10-23-06, 08:02 AM	Please don't ruin your health for D&D - it's not worth it in the long run ;)
Archangel62 10-23-06, 08:04 AM	I think what he meant was this, dex gives bonuses to AC, now with this rig it also gives bonuses to hit and damage. There is now no reason to ever wear heavy armor, instead it is best to get an impossibly high dexterity score, wear bracers of armor +8 and wear +5 Tunics of Thurrinak.
ZinFeir 10-23-06, 08:28 AM	Am I reading it wrong or are you saying your To Hit - There AC = Extra damage? I'm all for that! Mosly because at 8th level I'm at +19 to hit, without dex I'm still at +14. I have a level in mage as well, so I'll True Strike for another +20 so thats +34 and say I roll a 10, thats 44 and its AC at best is a 20. Roll damage is a d8 with my bow is 4(average) is 28 damage! And what if I use Hunter's Mercy? Thats another +8 to damage which is 36. And the artifact wand of haste is beautyful, because thats one attack, I still have 3 more. That would classes with full BAB much more stronger. . .
Ryu Katsuragi 10-23-06, 08:32 AM	No. He means, attack -over- their AC is extra damage. So, if you rolled 14 to hit, the enemy had 10AC, you do +4 damage. Also, notice the under this system, Rogues get +1 per dice of sneak attack, not 1d6, and Strength no longer gives damage. BAB classes are actually hurt more. (No more decent Power Attacking)
slaveryISfreedom 10-24-06, 01:47 AM	ok so you don't like it as stated. what if I add the overflow ability only to weapons that you have applied the weapon finesse feat too (also allow you to apply weap finesse to ranged weapons.) if weapon finesse is not used then normal rules apply. oh and good point about the true strike bit. For further info, our campaign is a zero magic campaign.
Nezkrul 10-24-06, 03:12 AM	ok, well, heres my take. the game's called dungeons and DRAGONS you know what a dragon's base attack is + its insane str mod + the spells it can cast to boost its attack rolls? dead players.