Attack then Move? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Attack then Move? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
spaceadet
10-25-05, 04:59 AM Okay guys,
You get a move action and you get a standard action in one round. Half of the my party thinks that you can do them in either order, the other half thinks it must be move then attack.
Any clarification appreciated
eagleye
10-25-05, 05:08 AM You can attack, then move, but you have to watch out for AoO. Or could you attack, take a 5-foot step, and then move, avoiding the AoO?
Dhavaer
10-25-05, 05:18 AM 5-foot steps and moves aren't compatible. It's one or the other in a single round.But yes, you can take the move and standard actions in any order.
strumbleduck
10-25-05, 05:27 AM Either order.
spaceadet
10-25-05, 08:02 AM Thanks guys
Someone
10-25-05, 12:23 PM A handy thing to mention is that you can set up for a full-attack action, but after the first attack (i.e. the equivalent of an attack action), you can change up from the full attack to a move. e.g. you could get a lucky crit and drop your opponent with your first attack (when you figured it would take all of your attacks), you would then be able to make a move to some other part of the fight.
Sledged
10-25-05, 12:37 PM A handy thing to mention is that you can set up for a full-attack action, but after the first attack (i.e. the equivalent of an attack action), you can change up from the full attack to a move.This can only be done if you have Spring Attack or some special class feature (e.g. dervish dance). You can't attack in the middle of a move otherwise. If you don't have Spring Attack you take a 5' step then attack, you're stuck with a full attack action.
WombleHunter
10-25-05, 01:00 PM This can only be done if you have Spring Attack or some special class feature (e.g. dervish dance). You can't attack in the middle of a move otherwise. If you don't have Spring Attack you take a 5' step then attack, you're stuck with a full attack action.
This is misleading.

You can indeed change from a full attack to an attack and move after only one attack. You do not need to have the Spring Attack feat to do this (in fact, the feat means something very different, and I am confused as to why you think this). Note also that your remaining move action needn't actually be a move - you can spend it as normal (retrieving an item, for example).

The post to which you are replying doesn't mention attacking in the middle of a move nor taking a 5 foot step, so I'm not sure why you do.

In summary: You can declare a full attack, make your first attack and then change your mind, leaving you with a move action to use however you wish. You cannot take a 5 foot step and a normal move under any circumstances. Spring Attack allows you to move, make an attack action (not any standard action) and then move again, within the confines of a single move for you. In fact, you have to move both before and after the attack if you want to activate the AoO avoiding part of the feat, I think.
Sledged
10-25-05, 01:26 PM The post to which you are replying doesn't mention attacking in the middle of a move nor taking a 5 foot step, so I'm not sure why you do.Because for some reason I had "5 foot step" stuck in my head when I was reading the post.
cwslyclgh
10-25-05, 01:33 PM You cannot take a 5 foot step and a normal move under any circumstances.note however that with spring attack you could take 5 feet of movement, attack, and then take your remianing movement.

the difference is that taking 5 feet of movement might provoke attacks of opportunity, where as a "5 foot step" does not.
Centauri
10-25-05, 01:42 PM You can indeed change from a full attack to an attack and move after only one attack. What if your full attack was going to involve two-weapon fighting? Would you just make your first, primary-hand attack with a penalty, and then decide whether to take the rest of your attacks or move?
cwslyclgh
10-25-05, 01:49 PM Would you just make your first, primary-hand attack with a penalty, and then decide whether to take the rest of your attacks or move? yep
kalstrand
10-25-05, 08:46 PM note however that with spring attack you could take 5 feet of movement, attack, and then take your remianing movement.

the difference is that taking 5 feet of movement might provoke attacks of opportunity, where as a "5 foot step" does not.

Spring Attack prevents AoO's from the defender of your attack. It will however allow someone else to make an AoO.
FlameLover
10-25-05, 09:20 PM You can also declare a Standard Attack Action but decide to turn it into a Full-Attack Action after the attack if you havn't used your Move Action yet (and if you can't do this then i'd houserule it). Just thought i'd point that out.
SALDAR
10-25-05, 09:51 PM You can also declare a Standard Attack Action but decide to turn it into a Full-Attack Action after the attack if you havn't used your Move Action yet (and if you can't do this then i'd houserule it). Just thought i'd point that out.
Actually, you cannot. See PHB pg 140, Multiple Attacks, and pg 143, Deciding between an Attack or Full Attack. You must decide before you begin to attack whether you are making an Attack (a standard action) or a Full Attack (a full round action).

If you choose Attack then you use your standard action for the round and have a move action left, you cannot change a standard action into a full round action after you have completed the standard action.

You will have to houserule it.
cwslyclgh
10-25-05, 10:04 PM Spring Attack prevents AoO's from the defender of your attack. It will however allow someone else to make an AoO. this doesn't contradict anything in my post... ie I never said that the person being attacked would be the one granted the AoO.
FlameLover
10-25-05, 10:24 PM Wow... well i've been playing with that rule and havn't found any abuses. Anyone see a reason not to allow it? I mean i can't think of how you'd benefit besides just changing your mind (so you can say Full-Attack and go Standard yet you can't go from Standard to Full? Weird). Ohwell, i have no probs with house ruling so if unless there is something i'm missing this shouldn't affect "balance" at all.
tui
10-26-05, 12:40 PM I also don't see anything wrong with it.

From the SRD: "Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack: After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out. If you’ve already taken a 5-foot step, you can’t use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action."

Granted that is in the Full Attack description.. but it sounds to me you can just declare "I attack the orc.", then decide whether it is a full attack or a standard attack after the first attack roll.

Sure, you could decide that's a house rule, but it is certainly the intent of RAW..
Nom
10-26-05, 06:31 PM Actually, there is no reason not to assume that "I attack the orc" always declares a normal full attack if the PC has the capacity to make one. Unless using a standard action only special ability (like Manyshot), an aborted full attack works just like a standard action attack and a move action.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
spaceadet 10-25-05, 04:59 AM	Okay guys, You get a move action and you get a standard action in one round. Half of the my party thinks that you can do them in either order, the other half thinks it must be move then attack. Any clarification appreciated
eagleye 10-25-05, 05:08 AM	You can attack, then move, but you have to watch out for AoO. Or could you attack, take a 5-foot step, and then move, avoiding the AoO?
Dhavaer 10-25-05, 05:18 AM	5-foot steps and moves aren't compatible. It's one or the other in a single round.But yes, you can take the move and standard actions in any order.
strumbleduck 10-25-05, 05:27 AM	Either order.
spaceadet 10-25-05, 08:02 AM	Thanks guys
Someone 10-25-05, 12:23 PM	A handy thing to mention is that you can set up for a full-attack action, but after the first attack (i.e. the equivalent of an attack action), you can change up from the full attack to a move. e.g. you could get a lucky crit and drop your opponent with your first attack (when you figured it would take all of your attacks), you would then be able to make a move to some other part of the fight.
Sledged 10-25-05, 12:37 PM	A handy thing to mention is that you can set up for a full-attack action, but after the first attack (i.e. the equivalent of an attack action), you can change up from the full attack to a move.This can only be done if you have Spring Attack or some special class feature (e.g. dervish dance). You can't attack in the middle of a move otherwise. If you don't have Spring Attack you take a 5' step then attack, you're stuck with a full attack action.
WombleHunter 10-25-05, 01:00 PM	This can only be done if you have Spring Attack or some special class feature (e.g. dervish dance). You can't attack in the middle of a move otherwise. If you don't have Spring Attack you take a 5' step then attack, you're stuck with a full attack action. This is misleading. You can indeed change from a full attack to an attack and move after only one attack. You do not need to have the Spring Attack feat to do this (in fact, the feat means something very different, and I am confused as to why you think this). Note also that your remaining move action needn't actually be a move - you can spend it as normal (retrieving an item, for example). The post to which you are replying doesn't mention attacking in the middle of a move nor taking a 5 foot step, so I'm not sure why you do. In summary: You can declare a full attack, make your first attack and then change your mind, leaving you with a move action to use however you wish. You cannot take a 5 foot step and a normal move under any circumstances. Spring Attack allows you to move, make an attack action (not any standard action) and then move again, within the confines of a single move for you. In fact, you have to move both before and after the attack if you want to activate the AoO avoiding part of the feat, I think.
Sledged 10-25-05, 01:26 PM	The post to which you are replying doesn't mention attacking in the middle of a move nor taking a 5 foot step, so I'm not sure why you do.Because for some reason I had "5 foot step" stuck in my head when I was reading the post.
cwslyclgh 10-25-05, 01:33 PM	You cannot take a 5 foot step and a normal move under any circumstances.note however that with spring attack you could take 5 feet of movement, attack, and then take your remianing movement. the difference is that taking 5 feet of movement might provoke attacks of opportunity, where as a "5 foot step" does not.
Centauri 10-25-05, 01:42 PM	You can indeed change from a full attack to an attack and move after only one attack. What if your full attack was going to involve two-weapon fighting? Would you just make your first, primary-hand attack with a penalty, and then decide whether to take the rest of your attacks or move?
cwslyclgh 10-25-05, 01:49 PM	Would you just make your first, primary-hand attack with a penalty, and then decide whether to take the rest of your attacks or move? yep
kalstrand 10-25-05, 08:46 PM	note however that with spring attack you could take 5 feet of movement, attack, and then take your remianing movement. the difference is that taking 5 feet of movement might provoke attacks of opportunity, where as a "5 foot step" does not. Spring Attack prevents AoO's from the defender of your attack. It will however allow someone else to make an AoO.
FlameLover 10-25-05, 09:20 PM	You can also declare a Standard Attack Action but decide to turn it into a Full-Attack Action after the attack if you havn't used your Move Action yet (and if you can't do this then i'd houserule it). Just thought i'd point that out.
SALDAR 10-25-05, 09:51 PM	You can also declare a Standard Attack Action but decide to turn it into a Full-Attack Action after the attack if you havn't used your Move Action yet (and if you can't do this then i'd houserule it). Just thought i'd point that out. Actually, you cannot. See PHB pg 140, Multiple Attacks, and pg 143, Deciding between an Attack or Full Attack. You must decide before you begin to attack whether you are making an Attack (a standard action) or a Full Attack (a full round action). If you choose Attack then you use your standard action for the round and have a move action left, you cannot change a standard action into a full round action after you have completed the standard action. You will have to houserule it.
cwslyclgh 10-25-05, 10:04 PM	Spring Attack prevents AoO's from the defender of your attack. It will however allow someone else to make an AoO. this doesn't contradict anything in my post... ie I never said that the person being attacked would be the one granted the AoO.
FlameLover 10-25-05, 10:24 PM	Wow... well i've been playing with that rule and havn't found any abuses. Anyone see a reason not to allow it? I mean i can't think of how you'd benefit besides just changing your mind (so you can say Full-Attack and go Standard yet you can't go from Standard to Full? Weird). Ohwell, i have no probs with house ruling so if unless there is something i'm missing this shouldn't affect "balance" at all.
tui 10-26-05, 12:40 PM	I also don't see anything wrong with it. From the SRD: "Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack: After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out. If you’ve already taken a 5-foot step, you can’t use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action." Granted that is in the Full Attack description.. but it sounds to me you can just declare "I attack the orc.", then decide whether it is a full attack or a standard attack after the first attack roll. Sure, you could decide that's a house rule, but it is certainly the intent of RAW..
Nom 10-26-05, 06:31 PM	Actually, there is no reason not to assume that "I attack the orc" always declares a normal full attack if the PC has the capacity to make one. Unless using a standard action only special ability (like Manyshot), an aborted full attack works just like a standard action attack and a move action.