Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tony111 12-05-05, 04:14 PM	Suppose we have a situation like this: O = empty square A = monster (huge) P = human with guisarme (reach) OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO OOOAAAOOOO OOOAAAOOOO OOOAAAOOOO OOOPOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO Can P attack A from his current square? If yes, then does the attack have any cover penalties? (I.E. does a creature grant itself cover)? If P also has a bite attack (alter self = troglodyte), can P first take the bite attack and then five foot step back and attack with the guisarme? Help. -Tony
Lord Lorac Silvanos 12-05-05, 04:33 PM	Not by the RAW. From the SRD: Reach Weapons: Glaives, guisarmes, lances, longspears, ranseurs, spiked chains, and whips are reach weapons. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren’t adjacent to him or her. Most reach double the wielder’s natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. Yes, you may bite and then step back to attack with the guisarme. The only movement you can take during a full attack is a 5-foot step. You may take the step before, after, or between your attacks.
Tony111 12-05-05, 04:47 PM	Hey, I love that gazebo things you have sigged. Back on topic: Not by the RAW. One could argue that the lower right corner of A is not adjacent to P. Yes, you may bite and then step back to attack with the guisarme. When attacking with primary and secondary attacks (guisarme primary, bite secondary) is it required that the primary attack are rolled first? For example, could a brown bear attack with bite and then claws? If no, then how can P attack with bite then guisarme? -Tony
Lord Lorac Silvanos 12-05-05, 05:01 PM	Hey, I love that gazebo things you have sigged. Yeah, it is quite funny :D Back on topic: One could argue that the lower right corner of A is not adjacent to P. Indeed it is not adjacent, but the entry for reach does not talk about squares, it talks about targets and creatures. (Unlike AoO, for instance) I see your point of course, but doing it by squares I would argue that even if I was in the middle square the creature would be tall enough for me to still use reach etc. and suddenly there would be no restriction of reach weapons against creatures larger than medium. When attacking with primary and secondary attacks (guisarme primary, bite secondary) is it required that the primary attack are rolled first? No, you can use the attacks in the order you wish. The only restriction that I am aware of is this: From the SRD: If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two weapons, you can strike with either weapon first. If you are using a double weapon, you can strike with either part of the weapon first. Remember also that if you want to do a full attack you cannot apply more than half the creature’s Strength bonus to the bite attack. (You could have done that if that was the only attack made in that round) For example, could a brown bear attack with bite and then claws? If no, then how can P attack with bite then guisarme? Yes:-)
Zherog 12-05-05, 05:49 PM	Indeed it is not adjacent, but the entry for reach does not talk about squares, it talks about targets and creatures. (Unlike AoO, for instance) I see your point of course, but doing it by squares I would argue that even if I was in the middle square the creature would be tall enough for me to still use reach etc. and suddenly there would be no restriction of reach weapons against creatures larger than medium. I have a hunch making that "reach" attack is OK. But as LLS points out, the text leans the other way. No, you can use the attacks in the order you wish. The only restriction that I am aware of is this: If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two weapons, you can strike with either weapon first. If you are using a double weapon, you can strike with either part of the weapon first. And by your own quote, you cannot take the secondary attack (the bite) before the weapon attacks, as they are made at a lower attack bonus (-5 off the primary).
Lord Lorac Silvanos 12-05-05, 06:08 PM	And by your own quote, you cannot take the secondary attack (the bite) before the weapon attacks, as they are made at a lower attack bonus (-5 off the primary). The bolded part only refers to iterative attacks. I bolded that to stress that this was the tricky part and that there was a restriction to what I had said in the previous sentence about making attacks in any order. :) Read the rest of the quote and you will see that it is indeed possible to attack with different weapons in any order you wish. The quote, however, does imply that you will have to finish with that weapon once you start swinging it if you have iterative attacks or are using ITWF.