Attacking while Jumping? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Attacking while Jumping? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ithamar
09-20-07, 06:52 PM Are there any specific rules for attacking in the middle of a jump? Can it be done?

I did a forum search, and also perused the FAQ, and did not find anything specifically related to this question.

The situation involves a standard fighter type, no special jump related feats, trying to hit an enemy flying above him. Can the fighter run, jump, attack in mid-air, and then land?

Opinions and/or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Howie23
09-20-07, 07:16 PM Are there any specific rules for attacking in the middle of a jump? Can it be done?

I did a forum search, and also perused the FAQ, and did not find anything specifically related to this question.

The situation involves a standard fighter type, no special jump related feats, trying to hit an enemy flying above him. Can the fighter run, jump, attack in mid-air, and then land?

Opinions and/or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks!

A jump is just part of movement. The action sequence nature of the game requires you to complete your move before attacking. Spring Attack is the exception, and there are similar feats for spells, ranged attacks, mounted, flying, etc.

However, "If you run out of movement mid-jump, your next action (either on this turn or, if necessary, on your next turn) must be a move action to complete the jump." (SRD, Jump Skill, same in PHB) Per that rule, you cannot finish a movement and attack mid-air without a feat that allows it (Spring Attack, for example).

That said, there is a long tradition of ignoring that, and many choose to allow it as a houserule.

David
ToastedAmphibian
09-20-07, 07:25 PM You could attempt an overrun however..... If you dnot have improved overrun, they will probably just avoid you, so majke sure he has it. On teh plus side.... if he fails, he stays in mid air if the target is more than 10 ft off the ground.
Consequences. If you succeed in knocking your opponent prone, you can continue your movement as normal. If you fail and are knocked prone in turn, you have to move 5 feet back the way you came and fall prone, ending your movement there. If you fail but are not knocked prone, you have to move 5 feet back the way you came, ending your movement there. If that square is occupied, you fall prone in that square.

Read "The way you came" as "Down" :}
Put on a more serious note, if the creature dosnt have perfect manuverability (And mabey even if it does, depending on your dm) it is now on the ground, and prone. In your square. Meaning if it trys to get up, you get an AoO, and unless it teleports you will probably get a full attack on it next round. Much better than trying to swat at it. Hopefully its not too much bigger than you.)
anomalousman
09-20-07, 09:33 PM I'm the fighter in question. The FAQ strongly suggests that charging would allow the attack to occur. If you do a double move charge (including a jump) and end up in mid air (but in range of a flying opponent), can you complete the charge action (and attack) before falling to the ground as a move action next turn?
pandoria
09-20-07, 09:39 PM Theres a feat u can take from complete warriors, its called Raptor School,its a tactical feat.Its kinda cool. hope that helps.
TheGreatSanguini
09-20-07, 10:01 PM Charge is kind of stretching it, though I can understand and appreciate the logic behind it.

A charge is a full round action in which you move double your movement and place an attack at then end of your movement. This would mean that, in the case of attacking while jumping, your turn would have to end in the air after your attack. Since you cannot end your turn in the air unless you have actually run out of movement with which to complete your jump, this can be very tricky to pull off successfully, and (as some would rule) impossible.

Personally, if one of my players were to attempt it, I'd toss it up to a "gray area". I'd end up giving them a chance at it, with a -4 to hit because of the combined difficulty of it. But, that's my ruling and not yours - it is, in many ways, a gray area.

Additionally, there's another feat from Complete Adventurer, Leap Attack. However, it just like a normal charge, uses the attack as you land from the jump rather than in the air.
anomalousman
09-20-07, 10:12 PM Yes, I think I could arrange to finish my turn in the air without too much pain (I have Twisted Charge), but I can see that it's right on the edge.
Johnny_Angel
09-21-07, 02:29 AM I would say it's possible.

"I ready an attack for when I jump to a height at which I can hit him."

This would require making a jump checking which would allow you to jump to the height required to reach the opponent. This option is probably the easiest, and works for nearly any type of jumping attack (IMO.)

OR

"I want to jump across the chasm; I want to ready an attack for when I pass by him."

- Jump check
- Readied Attack
- success or failure of the attempt to cross the chasm based on the jump check

Depending on the DM you may be required to make a DEX check to see if you can contorty/twist your body enough to hit the opponent effectively while in the process of your jump. Some DMs might impose a -2 circumstance penalty on your jump due to being less able to leap effectively while attacking. It's really the DM's call.
Howie23
09-21-07, 12:14 PM Charge is kind of stretching it, though I can understand and appreciate the logic behind it.

A charge is a full round action in which you move double your movement and place an attack at then end of your movement. This would mean that, in the case of attacking while jumping, your turn would have to end in the air after your attack. Since you cannot end your turn in the air unless you have actually run out of movement with which to complete your jump, this can be very tricky to pull off successfully, and (as some would rule) impossible.

I'd agree that charge has the possibility of being a possible, albeit rare, work around on this (Edit: within the RAW, but probably not the spirit, likely why you're referring to it as grey). I'm not familiar with Twisted Charge, so this may not apply to anomalousman, but a long jump is permitted during a charge. It doesn't get much elevation (1/4 of the distance). A running high jump isn't permitted during a charge due to the change of direction (I suspect Twisted Charge will avoid that problem).

However, I'd suggest that permitting the charge to complete would be consistent with a viewpoint that an interrupted charge cannot be converted to movement or other actions (interrupt: "I ready to cast grease in front of the bbn if he charges" or similar)

As to the suggestion of using a ready action to ready an attack in the midst of a move, this is a non-standard use of ready. In many cases, it will be an action in the midst of another action (a readied action is a standard action that ends the characters turn). More power to you if this works for your group's style of play.

David
1 ton ghost
09-21-07, 02:13 PM sure, why not.
i encourage that kind of initiative anyway. you're supposed to perform heroic/dramatic actions. even if it fails, it inspires your party to do likewise and gets the blood moving.

as long as it's a straight line, etc., i'd say it's valid.
it's been used before, ex)enemy must be hit or he escapes, heals, etc. scenario: attacker moves to charge, small obstruction (body pile, 1 patch of difficult terrain, etc) i allow a jump to clear it provided it's in a straight line and he's up to speed and can maintain it. little sketchy, but what the Hell...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ithamar 09-20-07, 06:52 PM	Are there any specific rules for attacking in the middle of a jump? Can it be done? I did a forum search, and also perused the FAQ, and did not find anything specifically related to this question. The situation involves a standard fighter type, no special jump related feats, trying to hit an enemy flying above him. Can the fighter run, jump, attack in mid-air, and then land? Opinions and/or advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
Howie23 09-20-07, 07:16 PM	Are there any specific rules for attacking in the middle of a jump? Can it be done? I did a forum search, and also perused the FAQ, and did not find anything specifically related to this question. The situation involves a standard fighter type, no special jump related feats, trying to hit an enemy flying above him. Can the fighter run, jump, attack in mid-air, and then land? Opinions and/or advice would be appreciated. Thanks! A jump is just part of movement. The action sequence nature of the game requires you to complete your move before attacking. Spring Attack is the exception, and there are similar feats for spells, ranged attacks, mounted, flying, etc. However, "If you run out of movement mid-jump, your next action (either on this turn or, if necessary, on your next turn) must be a move action to complete the jump." (SRD, Jump Skill, same in PHB) Per that rule, you cannot finish a movement and attack mid-air without a feat that allows it (Spring Attack, for example). That said, there is a long tradition of ignoring that, and many choose to allow it as a houserule. David
ToastedAmphibian 09-20-07, 07:25 PM	You could attempt an overrun however..... If you dnot have improved overrun, they will probably just avoid you, so majke sure he has it. On teh plus side.... if he fails, he stays in mid air if the target is more than 10 ft off the ground. Consequences. If you succeed in knocking your opponent prone, you can continue your movement as normal. If you fail and are knocked prone in turn, you have to move 5 feet back the way you came and fall prone, ending your movement there. If you fail but are not knocked prone, you have to move 5 feet back the way you came, ending your movement there. If that square is occupied, you fall prone in that square. Read "The way you came" as "Down" :} Put on a more serious note, if the creature dosnt have perfect manuverability (And mabey even if it does, depending on your dm) it is now on the ground, and prone. In your square. Meaning if it trys to get up, you get an AoO, and unless it teleports you will probably get a full attack on it next round. Much better than trying to swat at it. Hopefully its not too much bigger than you.)
anomalousman 09-20-07, 09:33 PM	I'm the fighter in question. The FAQ strongly suggests that charging would allow the attack to occur. If you do a double move charge (including a jump) and end up in mid air (but in range of a flying opponent), can you complete the charge action (and attack) before falling to the ground as a move action next turn?
pandoria 09-20-07, 09:39 PM	Theres a feat u can take from complete warriors, its called Raptor School,its a tactical feat.Its kinda cool. hope that helps.
TheGreatSanguini 09-20-07, 10:01 PM	Charge is kind of stretching it, though I can understand and appreciate the logic behind it. A charge is a full round action in which you move double your movement and place an attack at then end of your movement. This would mean that, in the case of attacking while jumping, your turn would have to end in the air after your attack. Since you cannot end your turn in the air unless you have actually run out of movement with which to complete your jump, this can be very tricky to pull off successfully, and (as some would rule) impossible. Personally, if one of my players were to attempt it, I'd toss it up to a "gray area". I'd end up giving them a chance at it, with a -4 to hit because of the combined difficulty of it. But, that's my ruling and not yours - it is, in many ways, a gray area. Additionally, there's another feat from Complete Adventurer, Leap Attack. However, it just like a normal charge, uses the attack as you land from the jump rather than in the air.
anomalousman 09-20-07, 10:12 PM	Yes, I think I could arrange to finish my turn in the air without too much pain (I have Twisted Charge), but I can see that it's right on the edge.
Johnny_Angel 09-21-07, 02:29 AM	I would say it's possible. "I ready an attack for when I jump to a height at which I can hit him." This would require making a jump checking which would allow you to jump to the height required to reach the opponent. This option is probably the easiest, and works for nearly any type of jumping attack (IMO.) OR "I want to jump across the chasm; I want to ready an attack for when I pass by him." - Jump check - Readied Attack - success or failure of the attempt to cross the chasm based on the jump check Depending on the DM you may be required to make a DEX check to see if you can contorty/twist your body enough to hit the opponent effectively while in the process of your jump. Some DMs might impose a -2 circumstance penalty on your jump due to being less able to leap effectively while attacking. It's really the DM's call.
Howie23 09-21-07, 12:14 PM	Charge is kind of stretching it, though I can understand and appreciate the logic behind it. A charge is a full round action in which you move double your movement and place an attack at then end of your movement. This would mean that, in the case of attacking while jumping, your turn would have to end in the air after your attack. Since you cannot end your turn in the air unless you have actually run out of movement with which to complete your jump, this can be very tricky to pull off successfully, and (as some would rule) impossible. I'd agree that charge has the possibility of being a possible, albeit rare, work around on this (Edit: within the RAW, but probably not the spirit, likely why you're referring to it as grey). I'm not familiar with Twisted Charge, so this may not apply to anomalousman, but a long jump is permitted during a charge. It doesn't get much elevation (1/4 of the distance). A running high jump isn't permitted during a charge due to the change of direction (I suspect Twisted Charge will avoid that problem). However, I'd suggest that permitting the charge to complete would be consistent with a viewpoint that an interrupted charge cannot be converted to movement or other actions (interrupt: "I ready to cast grease in front of the bbn if he charges" or similar) As to the suggestion of using a ready action to ready an attack in the midst of a move, this is a non-standard use of ready. In many cases, it will be an action in the midst of another action (a readied action is a standard action that ends the characters turn). More power to you if this works for your group's style of play. David
1 ton ghost 09-21-07, 02:13 PM	sure, why not. i encourage that kind of initiative anyway. you're supposed to perform heroic/dramatic actions. even if it fails, it inspires your party to do likewise and gets the blood moving. as long as it's a straight line, etc., i'd say it's valid. it's been used before, ex)enemy must be hit or he escapes, heals, etc. scenario: attacker moves to charge, small obstruction (body pile, 1 patch of difficult terrain, etc) i allow a jump to clear it provided it's in a straight line and he's up to speed and can maintain it. little sketchy, but what the Hell...