attacks of oportunity [Archive] - Wizards Community

attacks of oportunity [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
celegar
04-15-06, 12:46 AM two questions,

1. when you are provoking attacks of opportunity, does the person who gets the attacks get to use trip attacks or the like for the attack. like when you are trying to sunder someones weapon, does the person who you are trying to sunder get to make their attack of op as a trip.

2. when you are prone, do you still get to make attacks of oportunity.
Krug_the_smasher
04-15-06, 12:55 AM 1) They can, but i belive they need the Improved trip feat. Other than that, i dont think you can.

2) I belive if you are flatfooted, you cannot make attacks of oppurtunity. The majority of the time that a character spends being prone is usually flatfooted, so No.
DaMullet
04-15-06, 01:06 AM I seem to recall somewhere in the SRD that all special attacks can be made as an AoO. I can't seem to find it, so I'll need someone else to back me up, but it's been mentioned that if you try to grapple without the feat, he can try to trip you (provoking unless he has the feat) to stop the grapple by knocking you prone.
Mitchell
04-15-06, 03:15 AM You may use a special attack during an attack of opportunity, but if doing so provokes an attack of opportunity against you, then that will be resolved first... If I decide to trip someone as my AoO, but I don't have improved trip, then they attack me as their AoO, I try to trip them as my AoO, and then the turn continues as normal.
You can only make an AoO if you threaten, so if you don't threaten for some reason (no weapon, for example), then you can't make the AoO. If in the above example the person provoking was unarmed (maybe that's why they were running), then they wouldn't get their AoO against you.
Only one AoO per character, unless you have combat reflexes, and then that can open up a whole series of events. If the character in the example decided to trip you as their AoO against your AoO, that provokes an AoO without improved trip, so you could make a second AoO against them. If you decided to sunder, but didn't have improved sunder and they had combat reflexes, that provokes a 2nd AoO and they would get another shot at you, and this could go on for however many attacks of opportunity you are allowed.

Complex answers to simple questions... That's what I'm all about. ;)
ShinAkuma2
04-15-06, 09:14 AM Grapple, Sunder, Trip, and Disarm can all be used as AoOs.

Being prone does NOT make you flat-footed. You still threaten as normal, albeit at a -4 penalty.
FEADIN1
04-15-06, 09:49 AM Grapple, Sunder, Trip, and Disarm can all be used as AoOs.

Being prone does NOT make you flat-footed. You still threaten as normal, albeit at a -4 penalty.
Agree :cool:
KmartKommando
04-15-06, 02:47 PM Actually, you can only use Trip as an AoO if you are using a weapon that can trip. An Unarmed trip can't be an AoO because you are not armed with an unarmed strike, unless you have Imroved Unarmed Strike and Improved Trip. Ditto for grappling on an AoO, IUS and Improved Grapple. Your free AoO comes from the opponent doing something that provokes in your threatened area, and if your mode of attack doesn't threaten, then there is no AoO.

Sunder and disarm, if made with weapons, can be used on an AoO. IUS and Improved Disarm can be used on an AOO as well.

On a side note, tripping with a weapon, even though it doesn't provoke an AoO, you can still be tripped in return or lose your weapon, even if you have Improved Trip, because the feat doesn't negate the counter-trip if you fail to trip. My DM overlooked that fact which would've changed the whole outcome of a nasty battle.

Check out the All About Attacks of Opportunity article on the main site.
ShinAkuma2
04-15-06, 11:53 PM Actually, you can only use Trip as an AoO if you are using a weapon that can trip. An Unarmed trip can't be an AoO because you are not armed with an unarmed strike, unless you have Imroved Unarmed Strike and Improved Trip. Ditto for grappling on an AoO, IUS and Improved Grapple. Your free AoO comes from the opponent doing something that provokes in your threatened area, and if your mode of attack doesn't threaten, then there is no AoO.

Accurate, except you do NOT need the feats to use them as AoOs. It's just better that way.
KmartKommando
04-23-06, 01:09 AM Ok, so how exactly do you take an AoO with a unarmed attack that doesn't threaten any area?

That's like taking an AoO with the dagger on your belt. Sure, it's a 'weapon' but you're not threatening anything with it.

You do need Improved Unarmed Strike to threaten without a weapon, then you can use an unarmed trip attack as an AoO, because you now threaten an area.

It's not rocket science. No threaten = no AoO

You can run around the unarmed wizard all day and not get tripped, but try it with a monk..
ShinAkuma2
04-23-06, 03:02 AM You can weild a tripping weapon. You can wear spiked gauntlets.

Problem solved.
KmartKommando
04-23-06, 03:09 PM You can weild a tripping weapon. You can wear spiked gauntlets.

Problem solved.

My first line says " You can only trip as an AoO with a tripping weapon"

If you are wearing spiked gauntlets, then that is a weapon, not an unarmed strike, and you threaten with the spiked gauntlets, and last I heard, spiked gauntlets are not a tripping weapon.

Using spiked gauntlets to threaten, then using your AoO as an unarmed trip attack or unarmed disarm is munchkin, pure and simple, and against the letter and intent of the rules.
Centauri
04-23-06, 04:03 PM Using spiked gauntlets to threaten, then using your AoO as an unarmed trip attack or unarmed disarm is munchkin, pure and simple, and against the letter and intent of the rules. It gets worse. If you're weilding a non-tripping weapon and attempt to trip with an unarmed touch attack on your turn aren't you technically using an off-hand attack and therefore two-weapon fighting?
Sae Cael Oanar
04-23-06, 07:22 PM iirc you dont get twf penalties on aoos.

i think you should just try to sunder the weapon their sundering, it may not happen, but its definately the coolest thing that you can do.
KmartKommando
04-24-06, 01:23 AM It gets worse. If you're weilding a non-tripping weapon and attempt to trip with an unarmed touch attack on your turn aren't you technically using an off-hand attack and therefore two-weapon fighting?

Only if you attack with the weapon, and then try to trip, which would suffer the 2wf penalties.
And you still wouldn't be able to use the unarmed trip as an AoO.
Moribund
04-24-06, 02:45 PM In an earlier post Kmart said that you need Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Trip, Grab, Disarm to make those AoOs when unarmed. You only need Improved Unarmed Strike, because that feat alone allows you to threaten. You still provoke your own AoO if you attempt to use those maneuvers unarmed without the appropriate feats.
KmartKommando
04-24-06, 09:43 PM And I corrected myself a few posts down.

Only monks have IUS though, almost no one else ever takes it, but they still try to go along as if they have it.
SALDAR
04-26-06, 05:11 PM Unfortunately Unarmed Strike is not a trip weapon and, as such, cannot be used to make a trip attack (see PHB weapon descriptions in the Equipment chapter). Also, you make a trip attack with an unarmed melee touch attack or a trip weapon. An Unarmed Strike, whether from a monk or from a character with IUS, is an "armed" unarmed melee attack. It is neither an unarmed attack nor is it a touch attack. If you make a trip attack with an unarmed melee touch attack, as opposed to a trip weapon, you provoke an AoO. If you have Improved Trip you avoid this AoO and gain the other benefits of the feat.
MeepoTheMighty
04-26-06, 05:55 PM You don't need a trip weapon to trip. A trip weapon just allows you to drop the weapon if you fail your trip attempt and your opponent tries to trip you in response.
SALDAR
04-27-06, 05:07 PM You don't need a trip weapon to trip.
Actually you do. The weapons that can be used to make trip attacks state that they can be used to make trip attacks in their descriptions in the equipment chapter. The Trip section in the combat chapter also discusses tripping with a weapon and lists some of the weapons that can be used to make trip attacks.
misthalas
04-27-06, 10:20 PM two questions,

1. when you are provoking attacks of opportunity, does the person who gets the attacks get to use trip attacks or the like for the attack. like when you are trying to sunder someones weapon, does the person who you are trying to sunder get to make their attack of op as a trip.

2. when you are prone, do you still get to make attacks of oportunity.

1. Yes, you can make a trip attack for an AoO. If you try sunder enemy's weapon, your enemy can make a trip for his AoO. But remember if your enemy doesn't make a trip attack with a weapon or with Improved Trip, he provokes an AoO. Chained AoOs are resolved "Last In, First Out", so first you make AoO for be subject of tripping, next your enemy makes AoO for be subject of sundering, and finally you make your Sunder Attack.

2. Yes, but you have the penalties for being prone (-4 to your attack). When you're prone, your Threatened Squares don't dissappear. So you can make AoO but you have a -4 to your attack roll.
Wonton2006
04-27-06, 10:57 PM I remember when someone made a model in a thread that said attacking should provoke attacks of opportunity. His model involved four enemies (who are all in a free-for-all, I guess) with 18 Dex and Combat Reflexes. It's a good thing he put it into one of these:

Yup, a REAL good thing cause....

It was probably 4 pages long.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
celegar 04-15-06, 12:46 AM	two questions, 1. when you are provoking attacks of opportunity, does the person who gets the attacks get to use trip attacks or the like for the attack. like when you are trying to sunder someones weapon, does the person who you are trying to sunder get to make their attack of op as a trip. 2. when you are prone, do you still get to make attacks of oportunity.
Krug_the_smasher 04-15-06, 12:55 AM	1) They can, but i belive they need the Improved trip feat. Other than that, i dont think you can. 2) I belive if you are flatfooted, you cannot make attacks of oppurtunity. The majority of the time that a character spends being prone is usually flatfooted, so No.
DaMullet 04-15-06, 01:06 AM	I seem to recall somewhere in the SRD that all special attacks can be made as an AoO. I can't seem to find it, so I'll need someone else to back me up, but it's been mentioned that if you try to grapple without the feat, he can try to trip you (provoking unless he has the feat) to stop the grapple by knocking you prone.
Mitchell 04-15-06, 03:15 AM	You may use a special attack during an attack of opportunity, but if doing so provokes an attack of opportunity against you, then that will be resolved first... If I decide to trip someone as my AoO, but I don't have improved trip, then they attack me as their AoO, I try to trip them as my AoO, and then the turn continues as normal. You can only make an AoO if you threaten, so if you don't threaten for some reason (no weapon, for example), then you can't make the AoO. If in the above example the person provoking was unarmed (maybe that's why they were running), then they wouldn't get their AoO against you. Only one AoO per character, unless you have combat reflexes, and then that can open up a whole series of events. If the character in the example decided to trip you as their AoO against your AoO, that provokes an AoO without improved trip, so you could make a second AoO against them. If you decided to sunder, but didn't have improved sunder and they had combat reflexes, that provokes a 2nd AoO and they would get another shot at you, and this could go on for however many attacks of opportunity you are allowed. Complex answers to simple questions... That's what I'm all about. ;)
ShinAkuma2 04-15-06, 09:14 AM	Grapple, Sunder, Trip, and Disarm can all be used as AoOs. Being prone does NOT make you flat-footed. You still threaten as normal, albeit at a -4 penalty.
FEADIN1 04-15-06, 09:49 AM	Grapple, Sunder, Trip, and Disarm can all be used as AoOs. Being prone does NOT make you flat-footed. You still threaten as normal, albeit at a -4 penalty. Agree :cool:
KmartKommando 04-15-06, 02:47 PM	Actually, you can only use Trip as an AoO if you are using a weapon that can trip. An Unarmed trip can't be an AoO because you are not armed with an unarmed strike, unless you have Imroved Unarmed Strike and Improved Trip. Ditto for grappling on an AoO, IUS and Improved Grapple. Your free AoO comes from the opponent doing something that provokes in your threatened area, and if your mode of attack doesn't threaten, then there is no AoO. Sunder and disarm, if made with weapons, can be used on an AoO. IUS and Improved Disarm can be used on an AOO as well. On a side note, tripping with a weapon, even though it doesn't provoke an AoO, you can still be tripped in return or lose your weapon, even if you have Improved Trip, because the feat doesn't negate the counter-trip if you fail to trip. My DM overlooked that fact which would've changed the whole outcome of a nasty battle. Check out the All About Attacks of Opportunity article on the main site.
ShinAkuma2 04-15-06, 11:53 PM	Actually, you can only use Trip as an AoO if you are using a weapon that can trip. An Unarmed trip can't be an AoO because you are not armed with an unarmed strike, unless you have Imroved Unarmed Strike and Improved Trip. Ditto for grappling on an AoO, IUS and Improved Grapple. Your free AoO comes from the opponent doing something that provokes in your threatened area, and if your mode of attack doesn't threaten, then there is no AoO. Accurate, except you do NOT need the feats to use them as AoOs. It's just better that way.
KmartKommando 04-23-06, 01:09 AM	Ok, so how exactly do you take an AoO with a unarmed attack that doesn't threaten any area? That's like taking an AoO with the dagger on your belt. Sure, it's a 'weapon' but you're not threatening anything with it. You do need Improved Unarmed Strike to threaten without a weapon, then you can use an unarmed trip attack as an AoO, because you now threaten an area. It's not rocket science. No threaten = no AoO You can run around the unarmed wizard all day and not get tripped, but try it with a monk..
ShinAkuma2 04-23-06, 03:02 AM	You can weild a tripping weapon. You can wear spiked gauntlets. Problem solved.
KmartKommando 04-23-06, 03:09 PM	You can weild a tripping weapon. You can wear spiked gauntlets. Problem solved. My first line says " You can only trip as an AoO with a tripping weapon" If you are wearing spiked gauntlets, then that is a weapon, not an unarmed strike, and you threaten with the spiked gauntlets, and last I heard, spiked gauntlets are not a tripping weapon. Using spiked gauntlets to threaten, then using your AoO as an unarmed trip attack or unarmed disarm is munchkin, pure and simple, and against the letter and intent of the rules.
Centauri 04-23-06, 04:03 PM	Using spiked gauntlets to threaten, then using your AoO as an unarmed trip attack or unarmed disarm is munchkin, pure and simple, and against the letter and intent of the rules. It gets worse. If you're weilding a non-tripping weapon and attempt to trip with an unarmed touch attack on your turn aren't you technically using an off-hand attack and therefore two-weapon fighting?
Sae Cael Oanar 04-23-06, 07:22 PM	iirc you dont get twf penalties on aoos. i think you should just try to sunder the weapon their sundering, it may not happen, but its definately the coolest thing that you can do.
KmartKommando 04-24-06, 01:23 AM	It gets worse. If you're weilding a non-tripping weapon and attempt to trip with an unarmed touch attack on your turn aren't you technically using an off-hand attack and therefore two-weapon fighting? Only if you attack with the weapon, and then try to trip, which would suffer the 2wf penalties. And you still wouldn't be able to use the unarmed trip as an AoO.
Moribund 04-24-06, 02:45 PM	In an earlier post Kmart said that you need Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Trip, Grab, Disarm to make those AoOs when unarmed. You only need Improved Unarmed Strike, because that feat alone allows you to threaten. You still provoke your own AoO if you attempt to use those maneuvers unarmed without the appropriate feats.
KmartKommando 04-24-06, 09:43 PM	And I corrected myself a few posts down. Only monks have IUS though, almost no one else ever takes it, but they still try to go along as if they have it.
SALDAR 04-26-06, 05:11 PM	Unfortunately Unarmed Strike is not a trip weapon and, as such, cannot be used to make a trip attack (see PHB weapon descriptions in the Equipment chapter). Also, you make a trip attack with an unarmed melee touch attack or a trip weapon. An Unarmed Strike, whether from a monk or from a character with IUS, is an "armed" unarmed melee attack. It is neither an unarmed attack nor is it a touch attack. If you make a trip attack with an unarmed melee touch attack, as opposed to a trip weapon, you provoke an AoO. If you have Improved Trip you avoid this AoO and gain the other benefits of the feat.
MeepoTheMighty 04-26-06, 05:55 PM	You don't need a trip weapon to trip. A trip weapon just allows you to drop the weapon if you fail your trip attempt and your opponent tries to trip you in response.
SALDAR 04-27-06, 05:07 PM	You don't need a trip weapon to trip. Actually you do. The weapons that can be used to make trip attacks state that they can be used to make trip attacks in their descriptions in the equipment chapter. The Trip section in the combat chapter also discusses tripping with a weapon and lists some of the weapons that can be used to make trip attacks.
misthalas 04-27-06, 10:20 PM	two questions, 1. when you are provoking attacks of opportunity, does the person who gets the attacks get to use trip attacks or the like for the attack. like when you are trying to sunder someones weapon, does the person who you are trying to sunder get to make their attack of op as a trip. 2. when you are prone, do you still get to make attacks of oportunity. 1. Yes, you can make a trip attack for an AoO. If you try sunder enemy's weapon, your enemy can make a trip for his AoO. But remember if your enemy doesn't make a trip attack with a weapon or with Improved Trip, he provokes an AoO. Chained AoOs are resolved "Last In, First Out", so first you make AoO for be subject of tripping, next your enemy makes AoO for be subject of sundering, and finally you make your Sunder Attack. 2. Yes, but you have the penalties for being prone (-4 to your attack). When you're prone, your Threatened Squares don't dissappear. So you can make AoO but you have a -4 to your attack roll.
Wonton2006 04-27-06, 10:57 PM	I remember when someone made a model in a thread that said attacking should provoke attacks of opportunity. His model involved four enemies (who are all in a free-for-all, I guess) with 18 Dex and Combat Reflexes. It's a good thing he put it into one of these: Yup, a REAL good thing cause.... It was probably 4 pages long.