Augment Crystal Pricing/Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Augment Crystal Pricing/Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nite_shade
06-03-07, 04:10 AM Hello! I was wondering if there was any way to obtain the approximate cost of an augment crystal through formula. I'm sure price tinkering would be necessary depending on what the properties are, but any guidelines (personal or otherwise) would be greatly appreciated.

In addition, I'm currently attempting to lash together an augment crystal that specializes in dealing nonlethal damage and perhaps capture. Going off other augment crystal patterns, I think it would be something like:

Least: The weapon deals only nonlethal damage.
Lesser: As the least crystal, except the weapon deals an extra 1d6 points of nonlethal damage.
Greater: As the lesser crystal, but the target is also unable to run or charge for 1 round if hit.

The greater crystal's effect is supposed to mimic Fatigue, only without the penalties to ability scores. The point would be to keep the target from fleeing, obviously. I'm not sure where the crystal as a whole would stand in terms of power or price, though, so help would again be appreciated. Thanks!

P.S.: One of my players was wondering what a balanced augment crystal that bestows Weapon Finesse would look like. Any ideas?
Armoracia Rusticana
06-03-07, 01:16 PM These are going to be quite expensive, if legal, ones. I'd object allowing them if I were DM. Reasons: as least crystals are usable with Masterwork weapons, it is not [usually] normal to set magic properties on least crystals. I mean, all damage is non-lethal? C'mon, that's Mefcifull weapon! With minimal cost 8000 (obligate enhancement and +1 cost category). +1d6 nonlethal damage costs another +1 category... my answer would be stright no.

Though I's allow Least crystal: -2 penalty to deal non-lethal damage instead of -4; Lesser: weapon deals non-lethal damage only; Greater: as Lesser, and deals +1d6 damage. Price as Energy Assault Crystals.

As for Finesse Crystal - I'm no-no type of DM, as it seems. Again, that crystal is going to buy a feat for probably low money. But feats are costly at all levels, and money are cheap at high levels.

I'd allow weapon quality (+1 price category, most likely) that automatically makes wielder of weapon benefit of Weapon Finesse feat when using that weapon (i.e. add Dex instead of Str on melee attack rolls). That quality would have been applied to finessable weapons only. I'd even allow advanced version, that adds Dex to attack and damage rolls. For the cost of +2 category.
Nite_shade
06-03-07, 02:32 PM Perhaps I am wrong, but doesn't the Merciful special ability allow the weapon to deal extra damage as well as have the weapon deal only nonlethal damage? I am not sure how the balance of a campaign would be affected if nonlethal damage was easier to use, so please explain (I sincerely mean this). However, if it is indeed overpowered, perhaps I could change it to something like:

Least: The weapon deals an extra 1 point of nonlethal damage.
Lesser: The weapon deals an extra 1d6 points of nonlethal damage.
Greater: As lesser, but all damage the weapon deals is nonlethal as well.

Would something like this be sufficient, even if the growth order may need to be changed? It would be more of an equivalent to the Merciful special ability. Or, of course, I could use your idea. I personally feel that this may be going a bit too far in both cases, and that people (including myself) may shy away from it. Crystals of energy assault bestow a +1 enhancement by their lesser forms, so I thought something similar would be acceptable.

Thank you very much for your help thus far!
Armoracia Rusticana
06-04-07, 06:35 AM Yes, that would do.

As to the Mercifull property, it can be set On or Off as standard action. Nice thing to mention on that one - that's my favored theoretical way to make Frenzied Berserker _somewhat_ party-friendly. once he turned his Mercifull Greatsword of Uberness On and have gone nuts, he just can't turn it Off by strick reading of Rage class feature. That's just priceless. And thus I am quite sure that Mercifull can be set on or off.

That shows how game balance is involved, by the way. Having a friendly FB in a party is a matter of game balance.

Also, specific Exalted feat disallows you to deal lethal damage to certain creature types - and when you are not forced to attack with crappy sap or crappy -4 on attack rolls, that is also a matter of game balance.

Also, non-lethal damage is way better when you must beat anyone (PC or NPC) without killing him. Examples vary from tavern brawls where weapons are often disallowed and consequences for murder is harsh - to hostage kidnapping. You want him live, don't you?

So, I find your modification to be the better one. Non-lethal damage can't affect Undead and Constructs and hosed with Regeneration. But later on anyone has energy Resistance if not Immunity. Ergo, it is somehow balanced.
Knightblde
06-04-07, 10:31 AM Least: The weapon deals only nonlethal damage.
Lesser: As the least crystal, except the weapon deals an extra 1d6 points of nonlethal damage.
Greater: As the lesser crystal, but the target is also unable to run or charge for 1 round if hit.

The Least version that you have listed is a feat found in Exhaulted Deeds, at least it is very close to it. Least crystals can copy Feats, such as Quick Draw, so I would allow it.

The Lesser version that you have listed is like a +1 weapon. These cystals have also been know to do that. There is a crystal that copies the returning feature, to an extent, so again, I would allow this.

The third one is way to powerful. While this seems to be in line with the idea behind the crystal, it appears to be overpowering. It also breaks from subduing to lowering the targets ability to fight. You only have to move 10' to charge, I would seriously consider taking that out. As for run, if you truly mean run (x3 x4 or x5 movement) then I feel this is in line, and within power.

I like the line that you have gone with, most people just want to kill, kill, kill.

As for price:
Least: 500 gp
Lesser: 1,500 gp
Greater: 3,500 gp

Prices are just guesses.
Merestil Haye
06-04-07, 01:07 PM The greater crystal's effect is supposed to mimic Fatigue, only without the penalties to ability scores. The point would be to keep the target from fleeing, obviously. I'm not sure where the crystal as a whole would stand in terms of power or price, though, so help would again be appreciated. Thanks!The greater crystal's effect would be far more palatable if the victim received a Fort save to negate the fatigue effect.

My suggestion would be to revise it to a Slow effect for one round, subject to the creature failing a DC14 Fort save. Then as a special note, if the affected creature is under the influence of a Haste spell, the Haste is dispelled instead.
Knightblde
06-04-07, 05:43 PM I have found that I refuse to use any weapon that has an attack that grants a saving throw to avoid. If I am going to pay up to 38,000 gp, if it is only a +1 enchantment, and I have to make sure all the conditions are right (correct type of creature) AND I have the variable of hitting or not, why would I waste my time with it?!

Seriously, DC 14 is what 50% at level 1, but at level 10 it is like 20%, so as it goes the more I level, the less I want this feature on my weapon. I just don't see the point.

And this is not to fault the poster, I know he is following the WoTC example. I just refuse to use them myself as value vs. cost is way to low.

Happy Gaming!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nite_shade 06-03-07, 04:10 AM	Hello! I was wondering if there was any way to obtain the approximate cost of an augment crystal through formula. I'm sure price tinkering would be necessary depending on what the properties are, but any guidelines (personal or otherwise) would be greatly appreciated. In addition, I'm currently attempting to lash together an augment crystal that specializes in dealing nonlethal damage and perhaps capture. Going off other augment crystal patterns, I think it would be something like: Least: The weapon deals only nonlethal damage. Lesser: As the least crystal, except the weapon deals an extra 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. Greater: As the lesser crystal, but the target is also unable to run or charge for 1 round if hit. The greater crystal's effect is supposed to mimic Fatigue, only without the penalties to ability scores. The point would be to keep the target from fleeing, obviously. I'm not sure where the crystal as a whole would stand in terms of power or price, though, so help would again be appreciated. Thanks! P.S.: One of my players was wondering what a balanced augment crystal that bestows Weapon Finesse would look like. Any ideas?
Armoracia Rusticana 06-03-07, 01:16 PM	These are going to be quite expensive, if legal, ones. I'd object allowing them if I were DM. Reasons: as least crystals are usable with Masterwork weapons, it is not [usually] normal to set magic properties on least crystals. I mean, all damage is non-lethal? C'mon, that's Mefcifull weapon! With minimal cost 8000 (obligate enhancement and +1 cost category). +1d6 nonlethal damage costs another +1 category... my answer would be stright no. Though I's allow Least crystal: -2 penalty to deal non-lethal damage instead of -4; Lesser: weapon deals non-lethal damage only; Greater: as Lesser, and deals +1d6 damage. Price as Energy Assault Crystals. As for Finesse Crystal - I'm no-no type of DM, as it seems. Again, that crystal is going to buy a feat for probably low money. But feats are costly at all levels, and money are cheap at high levels. I'd allow weapon quality (+1 price category, most likely) that automatically makes wielder of weapon benefit of Weapon Finesse feat when using that weapon (i.e. add Dex instead of Str on melee attack rolls). That quality would have been applied to finessable weapons only. I'd even allow advanced version, that adds Dex to attack and damage rolls. For the cost of +2 category.
Nite_shade 06-03-07, 02:32 PM	Perhaps I am wrong, but doesn't the Merciful special ability allow the weapon to deal extra damage as well as have the weapon deal only nonlethal damage? I am not sure how the balance of a campaign would be affected if nonlethal damage was easier to use, so please explain (I sincerely mean this). However, if it is indeed overpowered, perhaps I could change it to something like: Least: The weapon deals an extra 1 point of nonlethal damage. Lesser: The weapon deals an extra 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. Greater: As lesser, but all damage the weapon deals is nonlethal as well. Would something like this be sufficient, even if the growth order may need to be changed? It would be more of an equivalent to the Merciful special ability. Or, of course, I could use your idea. I personally feel that this may be going a bit too far in both cases, and that people (including myself) may shy away from it. Crystals of energy assault bestow a +1 enhancement by their lesser forms, so I thought something similar would be acceptable. Thank you very much for your help thus far!
Armoracia Rusticana 06-04-07, 06:35 AM	Yes, that would do. As to the Mercifull property, it can be set On or Off as standard action. Nice thing to mention on that one - that's my favored theoretical way to make Frenzied Berserker _somewhat_ party-friendly. once he turned his Mercifull Greatsword of Uberness On and have gone nuts, he just can't turn it Off by strick reading of Rage class feature. That's just priceless. And thus I am quite sure that Mercifull can be set on or off. That shows how game balance is involved, by the way. Having a friendly FB in a party is a matter of game balance. Also, specific Exalted feat disallows you to deal lethal damage to certain creature types - and when you are not forced to attack with crappy sap or crappy -4 on attack rolls, that is also a matter of game balance. Also, non-lethal damage is way better when you must beat anyone (PC or NPC) without killing him. Examples vary from tavern brawls where weapons are often disallowed and consequences for murder is harsh - to hostage kidnapping. You want him live, don't you? So, I find your modification to be the better one. Non-lethal damage can't affect Undead and Constructs and hosed with Regeneration. But later on anyone has energy Resistance if not Immunity. Ergo, it is somehow balanced.
Knightblde 06-04-07, 10:31 AM	Least: The weapon deals only nonlethal damage. Lesser: As the least crystal, except the weapon deals an extra 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. Greater: As the lesser crystal, but the target is also unable to run or charge for 1 round if hit. The Least version that you have listed is a feat found in Exhaulted Deeds, at least it is very close to it. Least crystals can copy Feats, such as Quick Draw, so I would allow it. The Lesser version that you have listed is like a +1 weapon. These cystals have also been know to do that. There is a crystal that copies the returning feature, to an extent, so again, I would allow this. The third one is way to powerful. While this seems to be in line with the idea behind the crystal, it appears to be overpowering. It also breaks from subduing to lowering the targets ability to fight. You only have to move 10' to charge, I would seriously consider taking that out. As for run, if you truly mean run (x3 x4 or x5 movement) then I feel this is in line, and within power. I like the line that you have gone with, most people just want to kill, kill, kill. As for price: Least: 500 gp Lesser: 1,500 gp Greater: 3,500 gp Prices are just guesses.
Merestil Haye 06-04-07, 01:07 PM	The greater crystal's effect is supposed to mimic Fatigue, only without the penalties to ability scores. The point would be to keep the target from fleeing, obviously. I'm not sure where the crystal as a whole would stand in terms of power or price, though, so help would again be appreciated. Thanks!The greater crystal's effect would be far more palatable if the victim received a Fort save to negate the fatigue effect. My suggestion would be to revise it to a Slow effect for one round, subject to the creature failing a DC14 Fort save. Then as a special note, if the affected creature is under the influence of a Haste spell, the Haste is dispelled instead.
Knightblde 06-04-07, 05:43 PM	I have found that I refuse to use any weapon that has an attack that grants a saving throw to avoid. If I am going to pay up to 38,000 gp, if it is only a +1 enchantment, and I have to make sure all the conditions are right (correct type of creature) AND I have the variable of hitting or not, why would I waste my time with it?! Seriously, DC 14 is what 50% at level 1, but at level 10 it is like 20%, so as it goes the more I level, the less I want this feature on my weapon. I just don't see the point. And this is not to fault the poster, I know he is following the WoTC example. I just refuse to use them myself as value vs. cost is way to low. Happy Gaming!