Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Uchiha_Arthas 12-03-07, 04:51 PM	Augment Crystals were introduced in MIC where it was stated that each weapon/armour could only have one Augment Crystal at a time. My basic question is how much do you think the ability to have an additional crystal slot cost? My detailed question is: I am currently designing a new magic weapon. I want it to keep the normal Augment Crystal slot, but have an additional slot that could only hold either the Lightning or Fire augment crystals. I am somewhat balancing it by making it require an hour to change crystals in that slot. So how much of a price do you think I should put for this ability.
Scion of Coldshard 12-05-07, 01:57 PM	I suppose an easy way would be to just make a +1 enhancement that gave the weapon an extra crystal slot.
ToastedAmphibian 12-05-07, 06:12 PM	I suppose an easy way would be to just make a +1 enhancement that gave the weapon an extra crystal slot. Hmm, i dont have a magic item compendium with me, so i cant say for sure without looking at what some of the crystal abilites do, but it seems likley that atleast a few of them would be the equivalent of +2 enhancment abilites or more. That would let you get a weapon that is much more powerfull than a weapon with the same "Effective Enhancment Bonus" To the OP, well, what you really want is a weapon that can change between two +1 enhancments that add a seperate type of damage? Id say that is signifigantly more usefull than a +1 Enhancment... but not worth a +2 enhancment. How about this: RainBow Flameing Type: weapon Price: +2 Activation: Swift or Full-Round, Mental Only A weapon with this enhacment may mimic the Freezin, Shocking, Flameing, or Acidic weapon properties as its user desiers, but may only mimic one at a time. Changing the type of energy damage dealt requiers a full round action that provokes an AoO. A weapon that contains the Freezing, Shocking, Flameing or Acidic weapon properties can also be a RainBow Flameing weapon, but the rainbow flameing property will not be able to mimic any effect that is already on the sword. Supressing or activating the elemental properties of a rainbow flameing weapon is a swift action, and the type of energy is the same as what was in effect when the weapon was las supressed. This enhancment is not considered the same as any of the enchancments it mimics for any reason, including qualification for the burst properties. RainBow Burst Type: weapon Requiers: Rainbow Flameing Price: +1 Activation: Immediate 2/day The wielder of a Rainbow Burst weapon who scores a critcal hit may immediatly activate the sword to deal an extra 1d10 damage of the type currently selected for his weapon (Using the rainbow flameing property). The Rainbow Flameing property need not be currently active for this ability to function. Uh.... you might want to come up with a less gay name? But thats your perogative. I thought "prismatic" would fit, but its probably already taken.
Scion of Coldshard 12-05-07, 06:18 PM	That would let you get a weapon that is much more powerfull than a weapon with the same "Effective Enhancment Bonus" But you have to pay for each. At that point we are talking about, at minimum, a +2 equivalent weapon plus the costs of two augmenting crystals. For some effects it will likely come out cheaper than the alternative.. but I am ok with that really ;)
ToastedAmphibian 12-05-07, 06:40 PM	You end up with a cheaper high end weapon that is probably MORE powerfull and MORE versatile. To me Cheaper+Better+Versatile=Unbalanced
Uchiha_Arthas 12-05-07, 08:27 PM	Hmm, i dont have a magic item compendium with me, so i cant say for sure without looking at what some of the crystal abilites do, but it seems likley that atleast a few of them would be the equivalent of +2 enhancment abilites or more. *Nods* Somewhat true, however there are restrictions and levels of crystals. Least (1500gp), Lesser (3000gp), Greater (6000gp). A Lesser (middle) level one of the appropriate type does precisley 1d6 points of damage and Greater level can do that and add a brief effect such as dazzelling for one round. The gemstones themselves have a large price tag. That would let you get a weapon that is much more powerfull than a weapon with the same "Effective Enhancment Bonus" To the OP, well, what you really want is a weapon that can change between two +1 enhancments that add a seperate type of damage? Id say that is signifigantly more usefull than a +1 Enhancment... but not worth a +2 enhancment. There already is an enchantment in MIC similar to this, Energy Aura for +2 which can switch between various energy types each time the weapon is activated. The additional gem slot I want would only be able to switch between those two gem types (Fire and Lightning) and require an hour to switch. How about this: RainBow Flameing Type: weapon Price: +2 Activation: Swift or Full-Round, Mental Only A weapon with this enhacment may mimic the Freezin, Shocking, Flameing, or Acidic weapon properties as its user desiers, but may only mimic one at a time. Changing the type of energy damage dealt requiers a full round action that provokes an AoO. A weapon that contains the Freezing, Shocking, Flameing or Acidic weapon properties can also be a RainBow Flameing weapon, but the rainbow flameing property will not be able to mimic any effect that is already on the sword. Supressing or activating the elemental properties of a rainbow flameing weapon is a swift action, and the type of energy is the same as what was in effect when the weapon was las supressed. This enhancment is not considered the same as any of the enchancments it mimics for any reason, including qualification for the burst properties. RainBow Burst Type: weapon Requiers: Rainbow Flameing Price: +1 Activation: Immediate 2/day The wielder of a Rainbow Burst weapon who scores a critcal hit may immediatly activate the sword to deal an extra 1d10 damage of the type currently selected for his weapon (Using the rainbow flameing property). The Rainbow Flameing property need not be currently active for this ability to function. Uh.... you might want to come up with a less gay name? But thats your perogative. I thought "prismatic" would fit, but its probably already taken. Your probably right about Prismatic being taken ;) and that does sound like a very nice weapon enchant. I might see if I can get my DM to let me use it for my other character's bow.:D
Scion of Coldshard 12-06-07, 01:29 AM	To me Cheaper+Better+Versatile=Unbalanced Ah, so you already think that weapon crystals are unbalanced before the discussion is even started. That doesnt help much for this topic ;)
Breetai 12-06-07, 11:10 AM	Ah, so you already think that weapon crystals are unbalanced before the discussion is even started. That doesn't help much for this topic ;) Whats to discuss? The crystal augments are just making existing abilities in a superior cheaper fashion. It's not just augments IMO it's items all over the MIC. They essentially took the standards set by the DMG and lowered them for powergamers. It basically takes all the experince we have making magic items understanding game balance ect... and threw it out the window. My current group is so disgustingly powerful I'm really getting bored. CR's 5 - 6 higher than our level are no challenge as a result. I don't understand why people find this style of play fun.
Scion of Coldshard 12-06-07, 12:19 PM	Whats to discuss? The crystal augments are just making existing abilities in a superior cheaper fashion. He said, 'Cheaper+Better+Versatile=Unbalanced' which means that he should also think that weapon crystals in general are unbalanced.. which means that he is unlikely to view anything that will allow extra use of them to be balanced unless the cost is too high for the option to really be viable. If he doesnt feel that weapon crystals are unbalanced then the equation he gave does not hold true for all cases, which means that he may have to rethink his position. In a thread where someone is asking for help in how to make an idea work coming in with the preconcieved notion that what the idea is based on is wrong is typically going to lead to poor results. As for the rest of your post I would simply say that you are wrong and being insulting while you do it. There are many items in the dmg that are simply unuseable at thier price tags while there are other combinations of gear that some characters will often want that are prohibitively expensive because of item slot rules. As an example, take a look at the ring of regeneration. If this thing was reduced to 1/10 of its current price it would still be a bad deal for a normal campaign. I am not saying it is all perfect, merely that they are improving on the design in some ways over time as they notice problems.. Not all of the time, but at least occasionally it does happen.
Damned slayer 12-06-07, 12:39 PM	Whats to discuss? The crystal augments are just making existing abilities in a superior cheaper fashion. It's not just augments IMO it's items all over the MIC. They essentially took the standards set by the DMG and lowered them for powergamers. It basically takes all the experince we have making magic items understanding game balance ect... and threw it out the window. My current group is so disgustingly powerful I'm really getting bored. CR's 5 - 6 higher than our level are no challenge as a result. I don't understand why people find this style of play fun. As far as I'm concerned crystals ain't broken yet (lvl5) and I am the DM, I find them useful and like the idea of being able to change abilities without carrying 2 sets of weapon/armor Usually the 1st problem is not the publications its the people using them BTW what is the average stats of character?? and do you respect the wealth by level table or even the item level chart in the MIC that says what item lvl character should have?? if you're folllowing all those things you could consider playing the monster a little bit wiser like not throwing casters in mele... Or at least change the type of monsters you're facing A monster of CR2+ than your group (if you are 4 as the game was designed) IF played correctly or at least take 1 or 2 PC with him
1 ton ghost 12-06-07, 02:21 PM	firstly, to the OP, i definetly would NOT add another slot to any weapon. you're looking for an easy out and there's a reason they limit it to 1 only. you're doing the accountant thing, not the adventuring thing. the crystals have the ability to upset balance in many instances, this is just going too far IMO, but it's not my campaign. i would advise heavilly against is all. Breetai raises some good points. alot of the new powers are cheap and easilly available, plus you can switch them out to other weapons in your armory to exploit DR and the like. this sort of versatility can be very unbalanced, however, a great many of the crystals make sense and are practical and/or priced right. upping the hardness adding light to the weapon the quick draw one etc. nice, simple mods, nothing fancy. little things like that. but, dumping on something that is pretty much the province of Ghost Touch for alot less $ seems off, especially when you can apply it to another weapon, like say, if this one was sundered, or your tank is out of commission, etc. long story short, i had to change the price of some of these and ommit a few altogether.