Axe of ____ [Archive] - Wizards Community

Axe of ____ [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Krug_the_smasher
03-30-06, 12:06 AM Im looking to make an axe. I am thinking of putting maybe a +1 enhancement on it, and getting it at about level 6-8. I also want to put a permenant level one spell on it, and i was just wondering what the formula for this is.

Thanks alot.
ChibiQueso
03-30-06, 01:12 AM Which level one spell? That would mean quite a bit. A battleaxe with Feather fall or obscuring mist on it would be one thing. Magic missile, it might as well be a spell storing weapon(moreover, that would be odd to rule on). And true strike? :nonono:
Krug_the_smasher
03-30-06, 02:35 PM Well, my DM told me that if i found the price of an Axe of True strike, he would let me use it. But, it isnt permenant, it is at will, as a free action. how much would a quickened True strike axe be? Or maybe 3/day as a free action? would it be cheaper to do t as an immediate action? or a swift action? i really dont know, since i have never done this before.
tarkin
03-30-06, 03:04 PM You want +20 to all your attacks, all the time? That is an Epic item.

Even 3/ a day as a free action is going to be over 200,000 gp.

People tend to seriously underestimate pricing for:

1) Weapons - having things activate either as a free action or worse on a hit is not a cheap thing. It is expensive.

2) Spells that are first level or cantrips.

Frankly, it is not the smartest thing to try and put a "permanent spell" on a weapon. Weapons already have a pricing system, don't ignore it and try to use the wonderous item pricing.

At level 6-8, you might be able to afford a +2 total weapon enchantment.

You should be thinking +1 with Flaming, +1 with Frost, or maybe a regular non-magical Adamantine weapon.

If you insist on using the Wonderous Item pricing, please remember to do it right.

That means:

1) Nothing that is priced by formula. No +'s to hit, no +'s to Armor, no +s to saves, etc. etc.

2) Weapons are unslooted. This raises the price.

3) Spells with short durations have significant price increases.

4) Certain things, such as healing and charm person, should not be done at will, no matter what. Those things are just too powerfull, and have seperate pricing mechanisms. Don't try to get too good a deal. For 6-8th level, ask yourself, would you rather have a +3 Shield or this item. If you say +3 shield, then it might be fairly priced. If not, then forget about it.

5) They do NOT activate for free. Instead they must use a command word to activate as a standard action. At 6-8th level you simply will not be able to afford a free action activation item, unless we are talking about featherfall.
Illion the Red
03-30-06, 03:12 PM Well, my DM told me that if i found the price of an Axe of True strike, he would let me use it. But, it isnt permenant, it is at will, as a free action. how much would a quickened True strike axe be? Or maybe 3/day as a free action? would it be cheaper to do t as an immediate action? or a swift action? i really dont know, since i have never done this before.

The price for this axe in my games: Your Character's Soul - as the only way you'd ever get something like this would be to make a deal with the devil...and dont' worry, he'll be around to collect on it soon.

Really, true strike is way too powerful to be allowed to be put into a weapon.
bondious
03-30-06, 03:14 PM Command word: Spell level x caster level x 1,800gp. This enables the spell-like ability to be used 5/day. To gain a lesser number of uses per day, divide the total cost by 5 and then multiply by the number (less then 5) desired.

True Strike (level 1) x caster level (1) x 1,800gp = 1,800gp to use True Strike as a standard action (as the spell) 5/day. You wanted to be used as a free action, though, presumably so you can utilize True Strike AND attack in the same round. You’ll need Quicken.

Now, for a Quickened spell I’m not sure if the spell level would go up, or the caster level. A Quickened True Strike would take up a 5th level spell slot, even though it is a 1st level spell, and a 5th level spell slot can only be cast by a 9th level caster. Then there’s also this:

Effects of Metamagic Feats on a Spell: In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast as a higher-level spell. Saving throw modifications are not changed unless stated otherwise in the feat description.

I’m thinking that since the spell level does not change, but it still takes a higher level caster to cast it, then this should be the formula:

True Strike (level 1) x caster level (9) x 1,800gp = 16,200gp for 5/day as a free action (once a round). So if you wanted it to be used 3/day it would cost 16,200gp divided by 5 and then multiplied by 3, or 9,720gp for 3/day.

Does this help?

[EDIT: This is all, of course, by the formulas and rules presented to us by the Core and SRD. My thought is that the formula SHOULD be something like: True Strike (level 5) x caster level (9) x 1,800gp = 81,000gp for 5/day as a free action (once a round). Indeed, True Strike is pretty powerful, especially as a free action. As a standard action it's not too bad, since you have to spend a round to "charge up", especially if it is limited to a number of times per day. I was just giving the rules as I saw them.]
strumbleduck
03-30-06, 03:17 PM Here are my suggested prices for some of the items you mentioned:

Sword that lets you use true strike at will, as a free action: 3,920,000 gp.

Sword that lets you use true strike 3/day, as a free action: 2,352,000 gp.

Sword that lets you use true strike 3/day, as a swift or immediate action: 2,116,800 gp.

Obviously you won't be able to afford it by levels 6-8. I estimate you'll have to wait until about 36th level to afford one of these items.
tarkin
03-30-06, 03:20 PM Bondicious, even if you were correct that it was OK to use True Strike that way, you got it wrong.

When including metamagics, the level DOES change for pricing purposes. Go check the wands. It is pretty obvious if you bother to read the DMG.

But aside from that, why are you using the wonderous item method for a weapon? Cause he said he wanted it? Hm. Why don't we use the Armor pricing method, it is 1/2 the cost of weapons. If he asks for it, will you give it to him?

Nope, to price a weapon, you are supposed to use the weapon pricing system. That is +1, +2, +3,+4,+5. No spell level. No caster level. Cause you are not allowed to do that kind of stuff

Not unless your DM is running an anything goes game.
mvincent
03-30-06, 03:32 PM Im looking to make an axe. I am thinking of putting maybe a +1 enhancement on it, and getting it at about level 6-8. I also want to put a permenant level one spell on it, and i was just wondering what the formula for this is.You can find that here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm).

Well, my DM told me that if i found the price of an Axe of True strike, he would let me use it.You can find that here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050118a).
bondious
03-30-06, 03:39 PM Bondicious, even if you were correct that it WAS OK to use True Strike that way, you got it wrong.

When including metamagics, the level DOES change for pricing purposes. Go check the wands and scrolls. It is pretty obvious if you bother to read the DMG.

But aside from that, why are you using the wonderous item method for a weapon? Cause he said he wanted it?

Hm. Why don't we use the Armor pricing method, it is 1/2 the cost of weapons.

Nope, to price a weapon, you are supposed to use the weapon pricing system. That is +1, +2, +3,+4,+5. No spell level. No caster level. Cause you are not allowed to do that kind of stuff

Not unless your DM is running an anything goes game.

Tarkicin, I did indeed edit my last post, reflecting the change in spell level along with the corresponding change in caster level. And "yes", I do indeed read the DMG and the SRD and have at least a decent understanding of the game, thank you.

As for the wondrous item pricing, I'm simply using the system in place to add spell effects, from the table under the Item Creation section. That entry, if YOU read your DMG, says NOTHING about that being pricing SPECIFICALLY for wondrous items. Indeed, there are references to the following: wondrous items, potions, scrolls and wands.

Hm. Why don't we use the Armor pricing method, it is 1/2 the cost of weapons.

If your sarcasm or sense of right and wrong, or WHATEVER motivated you to say that, leads you to that conclusion, then by all means. I’ll stick to other methods.

Nope, to price a weapon, you are supposed to use the weapon pricing system. That is +1, +2, +3,+4,+5. No spell level. No caster level. Cause you are not allowed to do that kind of stuff

I’m thinking that this is open to debate, my friend. I’m sure there are examples in core and SRD of magic weapons with spell-like effects, such as the Dagger of Venom, a Flame Tongue or a Mace of Terror. All of THESE have spell-like effects added to them, which are not covered by the standard +1, +2, +3, etc system. In fact, they incorporate this system WITH the spell-like effects, don’t they?

And, as a final thought (or two), I once let a player add a spell effect to their enchanted sword that enabled them to cast Cure Light Wounds as a 1st level caster 5/day. This was activated as a standard action and cost them 2,700gp, since it was an unusual space limitation, in my opinion. This worked out just fine and didn’t overbalance or break my game. As for the Quickened True Strike ability, and my 81,000gp price (you did check my edit, right?), I guess you COULD multiply that cost by either 1.5 or by 2 (getting the totals of 121,500gp or 162,000gp, respectively). At THESE prices, I’m not to sure that many people would find that a 5/day free action True Strike would be worth it, but they’d DEFINITELY be paying for it, huh? And it would DEFINATLY be out of the price range of a 6th to 8th level character.
mvincent
03-30-06, 04:20 PM I once let a player add a spell effect to their enchanted sword that enabled them to cast Cure Light Wounds as a 1st level caster 5/day. This was activated as a standard action and cost them 2,700gp, since it was an unusual space limitation, in my opinion. This worked out just fine and didn’t overbalance or break my game.Certainly, many (most even) cases will work, but there are enough that don't that we often caution against creating entirely new magic items. There is much conflict with creating new items. DM's are (of course) free to do so, but players should probably not be.

A compromise would be to find pre-existing methods of doing what you want. An item could be made intelligent and thus capable of obtaining many different special abilities that might be what you want. Alternately, an item could be made slotless (assuming it already occupied a slot) for +50% in price, allowing it's ability to be added to virtually anything (including a weapon).
bondious
03-30-06, 04:38 PM Certainly, many (most even) cases will work, but there are enough that don't that we often caution against creating entirely new magic items. There is much conflict with creating new items. DM's are (of course) free to do so, but players should probably not be.

A compromise would be to finds pre-existing methods of doing what you want. An item could be made intelligent and thus capable of obtaining many different special abilities that might be what you want. Alternately, an item could be made slotless (assuming it already occupied a slot) for +50% in price, allowing it's ability to be added to virtually anything (including a weapon).

I agree, and as a DM (about 95% of all my gaming experience) I wouldn't let my players create something like this on their own. Hell, unless they're purchasing standard and inexpensive magic items they usually have to approve their purchases with me before they get thier stuff. I was simply answering the OP's question.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Krug_the_smasher 03-30-06, 12:06 AM	Im looking to make an axe. I am thinking of putting maybe a +1 enhancement on it, and getting it at about level 6-8. I also want to put a permenant level one spell on it, and i was just wondering what the formula for this is. Thanks alot.
ChibiQueso 03-30-06, 01:12 AM	Which level one spell? That would mean quite a bit. A battleaxe with Feather fall or obscuring mist on it would be one thing. Magic missile, it might as well be a spell storing weapon(moreover, that would be odd to rule on). And true strike? :nonono:
Krug_the_smasher 03-30-06, 02:35 PM	Well, my DM told me that if i found the price of an Axe of True strike, he would let me use it. But, it isnt permenant, it is at will, as a free action. how much would a quickened True strike axe be? Or maybe 3/day as a free action? would it be cheaper to do t as an immediate action? or a swift action? i really dont know, since i have never done this before.
tarkin 03-30-06, 03:04 PM	You want +20 to all your attacks, all the time? That is an Epic item. Even 3/ a day as a free action is going to be over 200,000 gp. People tend to seriously underestimate pricing for: 1) Weapons - having things activate either as a free action or worse on a hit is not a cheap thing. It is expensive. 2) Spells that are first level or cantrips. Frankly, it is not the smartest thing to try and put a "permanent spell" on a weapon. Weapons already have a pricing system, don't ignore it and try to use the wonderous item pricing. At level 6-8, you might be able to afford a +2 total weapon enchantment. You should be thinking +1 with Flaming, +1 with Frost, or maybe a regular non-magical Adamantine weapon. If you insist on using the Wonderous Item pricing, please remember to do it right. That means: 1) Nothing that is priced by formula. No +'s to hit, no +'s to Armor, no +s to saves, etc. etc. 2) Weapons are unslooted. This raises the price. 3) Spells with short durations have significant price increases. 4) Certain things, such as healing and charm person, should not be done at will, no matter what. Those things are just too powerfull, and have seperate pricing mechanisms. Don't try to get too good a deal. For 6-8th level, ask yourself, would you rather have a +3 Shield or this item. If you say +3 shield, then it might be fairly priced. If not, then forget about it. 5) They do NOT activate for free. Instead they must use a command word to activate as a standard action. At 6-8th level you simply will not be able to afford a free action activation item, unless we are talking about featherfall.
Illion the Red 03-30-06, 03:12 PM	Well, my DM told me that if i found the price of an Axe of True strike, he would let me use it. But, it isnt permenant, it is at will, as a free action. how much would a quickened True strike axe be? Or maybe 3/day as a free action? would it be cheaper to do t as an immediate action? or a swift action? i really dont know, since i have never done this before. The price for this axe in my games: Your Character's Soul - as the only way you'd ever get something like this would be to make a deal with the devil...and dont' worry, he'll be around to collect on it soon. Really, true strike is way too powerful to be allowed to be put into a weapon.
bondious 03-30-06, 03:14 PM	Command word: Spell level x caster level x 1,800gp. This enables the spell-like ability to be used 5/day. To gain a lesser number of uses per day, divide the total cost by 5 and then multiply by the number (less then 5) desired. True Strike (level 1) x caster level (1) x 1,800gp = 1,800gp to use True Strike as a standard action (as the spell) 5/day. You wanted to be used as a free action, though, presumably so you can utilize True Strike AND attack in the same round. You’ll need Quicken. Now, for a Quickened spell I’m not sure if the spell level would go up, or the caster level. A Quickened True Strike would take up a 5th level spell slot, even though it is a 1st level spell, and a 5th level spell slot can only be cast by a 9th level caster. Then there’s also this: Effects of Metamagic Feats on a Spell: In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast as a higher-level spell. Saving throw modifications are not changed unless stated otherwise in the feat description. I’m thinking that since the spell level does not change, but it still takes a higher level caster to cast it, then this should be the formula: True Strike (level 1) x caster level (9) x 1,800gp = 16,200gp for 5/day as a free action (once a round). So if you wanted it to be used 3/day it would cost 16,200gp divided by 5 and then multiplied by 3, or 9,720gp for 3/day. Does this help? [EDIT: This is all, of course, by the formulas and rules presented to us by the Core and SRD. My thought is that the formula SHOULD be something like: True Strike (level 5) x caster level (9) x 1,800gp = 81,000gp for 5/day as a free action (once a round). Indeed, True Strike is pretty powerful, especially as a free action. As a standard action it's not too bad, since you have to spend a round to "charge up", especially if it is limited to a number of times per day. I was just giving the rules as I saw them.]
strumbleduck 03-30-06, 03:17 PM	Here are my suggested prices for some of the items you mentioned: Sword that lets you use true strike at will, as a free action: 3,920,000 gp. Sword that lets you use true strike 3/day, as a free action: 2,352,000 gp. Sword that lets you use true strike 3/day, as a swift or immediate action: 2,116,800 gp. Obviously you won't be able to afford it by levels 6-8. I estimate you'll have to wait until about 36th level to afford one of these items.
tarkin 03-30-06, 03:20 PM	Bondicious, even if you were correct that it was OK to use True Strike that way, you got it wrong. When including metamagics, the level DOES change for pricing purposes. Go check the wands. It is pretty obvious if you bother to read the DMG. But aside from that, why are you using the wonderous item method for a weapon? Cause he said he wanted it? Hm. Why don't we use the Armor pricing method, it is 1/2 the cost of weapons. If he asks for it, will you give it to him? Nope, to price a weapon, you are supposed to use the weapon pricing system. That is +1, +2, +3,+4,+5. No spell level. No caster level. Cause you are not allowed to do that kind of stuff Not unless your DM is running an anything goes game.
mvincent 03-30-06, 03:32 PM	Im looking to make an axe. I am thinking of putting maybe a +1 enhancement on it, and getting it at about level 6-8. I also want to put a permenant level one spell on it, and i was just wondering what the formula for this is.You can find that here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm). Well, my DM told me that if i found the price of an Axe of True strike, he would let me use it.You can find that here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050118a).
bondious 03-30-06, 03:39 PM	Bondicious, even if you were correct that it WAS OK to use True Strike that way, you got it wrong. When including metamagics, the level DOES change for pricing purposes. Go check the wands and scrolls. It is pretty obvious if you bother to read the DMG. But aside from that, why are you using the wonderous item method for a weapon? Cause he said he wanted it? Hm. Why don't we use the Armor pricing method, it is 1/2 the cost of weapons. Nope, to price a weapon, you are supposed to use the weapon pricing system. That is +1, +2, +3,+4,+5. No spell level. No caster level. Cause you are not allowed to do that kind of stuff Not unless your DM is running an anything goes game. Tarkicin, I did indeed edit my last post, reflecting the change in spell level along with the corresponding change in caster level. And "yes", I do indeed read the DMG and the SRD and have at least a decent understanding of the game, thank you. As for the wondrous item pricing, I'm simply using the system in place to add spell effects, from the table under the Item Creation section. That entry, if YOU read your DMG, says NOTHING about that being pricing SPECIFICALLY for wondrous items. Indeed, there are references to the following: wondrous items, potions, scrolls and wands. Hm. Why don't we use the Armor pricing method, it is 1/2 the cost of weapons. If your sarcasm or sense of right and wrong, or WHATEVER motivated you to say that, leads you to that conclusion, then by all means. I’ll stick to other methods. Nope, to price a weapon, you are supposed to use the weapon pricing system. That is +1, +2, +3,+4,+5. No spell level. No caster level. Cause you are not allowed to do that kind of stuff I’m thinking that this is open to debate, my friend. I’m sure there are examples in core and SRD of magic weapons with spell-like effects, such as the Dagger of Venom, a Flame Tongue or a Mace of Terror. All of THESE have spell-like effects added to them, which are not covered by the standard +1, +2, +3, etc system. In fact, they incorporate this system WITH the spell-like effects, don’t they? And, as a final thought (or two), I once let a player add a spell effect to their enchanted sword that enabled them to cast Cure Light Wounds as a 1st level caster 5/day. This was activated as a standard action and cost them 2,700gp, since it was an unusual space limitation, in my opinion. This worked out just fine and didn’t overbalance or break my game. As for the Quickened True Strike ability, and my 81,000gp price (you did check my edit, right?), I guess you COULD multiply that cost by either 1.5 or by 2 (getting the totals of 121,500gp or 162,000gp, respectively). At THESE prices, I’m not to sure that many people would find that a 5/day free action True Strike would be worth it, but they’d DEFINITELY be paying for it, huh? And it would DEFINATLY be out of the price range of a 6th to 8th level character.
mvincent 03-30-06, 04:20 PM	I once let a player add a spell effect to their enchanted sword that enabled them to cast Cure Light Wounds as a 1st level caster 5/day. This was activated as a standard action and cost them 2,700gp, since it was an unusual space limitation, in my opinion. This worked out just fine and didn’t overbalance or break my game.Certainly, many (most even) cases will work, but there are enough that don't that we often caution against creating entirely new magic items. There is much conflict with creating new items. DM's are (of course) free to do so, but players should probably not be. A compromise would be to find pre-existing methods of doing what you want. An item could be made intelligent and thus capable of obtaining many different special abilities that might be what you want. Alternately, an item could be made slotless (assuming it already occupied a slot) for +50% in price, allowing it's ability to be added to virtually anything (including a weapon).
bondious 03-30-06, 04:38 PM	Certainly, many (most even) cases will work, but there are enough that don't that we often caution against creating entirely new magic items. There is much conflict with creating new items. DM's are (of course) free to do so, but players should probably not be. A compromise would be to finds pre-existing methods of doing what you want. An item could be made intelligent and thus capable of obtaining many different special abilities that might be what you want. Alternately, an item could be made slotless (assuming it already occupied a slot) for +50% in price, allowing it's ability to be added to virtually anything (including a weapon). I agree, and as a DM (about 95% of all my gaming experience) I wouldn't let my players create something like this on their own. Hell, unless they're purchasing standard and inexpensive magic items they usually have to approve their purchases with me before they get thier stuff. I was simply answering the OP's question.