Axe or club??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Axe or club??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
lycrof
12-03-04, 07:12 PM Me and my friend were argueing about what would win in real life an axe or a club. The weapons are the same weight and the two fighters are equally skilled. I am for the club but club is losing at my school 4 to 7.
Silimaure
12-03-04, 09:57 PM Depends who hits first, in my opinion.
Thanatos02
12-03-04, 10:52 PM The Axe wins, due to it being an axe. You know, with an edge and stuff.
Pazuzumaki
12-03-04, 11:33 PM You can't just say they are the same weight, because if it's a small wood club vs. a hatchet, my moneys of the axe fighter. If it's an enormis club vs. an axe of equivelent size, then it becomes a harder question. Also, what's the club made out of? An enormis club made out of foam poses a different threat then a long, steel shaft that can split open your head with little effort.

Oh, and if it's a NIGHT club, then the axe of equal weight chops it and it's patrons to bits.
Quarterstaff
12-04-04, 12:35 AM by the way unless the ax is sharpened for about an hour with every blow the ax really isnt that sharp

in a fight like a 3pd club versus a 3pd ax definatly the ax

in a fight like a 15pd club and the ax is 15pds definitly the club just because it can be readied for more blows quicker than the ax because the ax needs to be readied by tilting it with the ax head facing flat
simen_88
12-04-04, 11:14 AM An axe doesn't need to be sharp to be lethal. It just focuses all the power on a relatively small point and pushes all the flesh to the sides. As long as it is sharp enough to make a cut on impact, it is usually good enough.

On topic: A woodcutter's axe vs a baseball bat, the bat wins. It is much faster than the club due to it being lighter, and it has a larger area that deals damage.
Silimaure
12-06-04, 02:39 PM But you have to ask yourself, what are the conditions?

Are they heavily armored? Are they armorless? What is defined by "Of equal skill?"

I'm not sure this question can be answered here.
Cathon
12-06-04, 08:04 PM Well I'd rather be hit in the arm with a big club than with an axe, though either one will kill you if it hits you in the head or neck.

Of course, if you up the weight enough, the axe guy can be wielding a halberd, which I'd take over any club, since you can stab with it from a distance.

Or you could have a Frankish Throwing axe and take them out before they get to you.
simen_88
12-07-04, 11:48 AM Of course, if you up the weight enough, the axe guy can be wielding a halberd, which I'd take over any club, since you can stab with it from a distance.

Or you could have a Frankish Throwing axe and take them out before they get to you.
Yes. But if we up the weight to that level, the other chap has a lucerne hammer. Which is so scary, I would rather be fwapped with a halberd, just because I *might* not be smacked to pieces, and if I am, it's happening relatively quick.
Dracspero
12-07-04, 12:02 PM Depends who hits first, in my opinion.

Agreed 100% :D
pres_man
12-07-04, 12:46 PM Let's use a little bit of logic here. If a club were better than axe. Then the person using the axe would turn it so the blunt side was used for swinging and he would then be using a club also. An axe is a club + blade, which one would think would be better then just a club.
Thorak
12-07-04, 01:00 PM Unless we're talking about clubs big and heavy enough to guarantee broken bones with each hit, the axe. Because the club's doing tissue damage, while the axe is doing tissue damage and cleaving deeper to get at the important bits, and opening bleeding wounds. Hit the guy with an axe and back off. If you hit him good, he's got minutes before he falls over unconscious from blood loss. All you gotta do is stay out of reach.

Anywhere you can hit someone with a blunt weapon, a sharp weapon of the same weight will do more damage. For the very simple mathematical reason that force is mass times acceleration. Mass is the same, and the acceleration is the same. Therefore, the force is the same.

But in the axe's case, that force is direct along the edge, while the club directs it along a surface. Which means that the axe hits with greater pressure where it hits, doing more damage to what it hits. It's possible to hit someone with an axe and cut deeply into the muscle with a hit that a club would only bruise the muscle with.

Again; unless we're talking about a club so big it doesn't matter, because it smashes the bones when it hits anyway, the axe wins.

Oh, and whoever said "you have to turn the blade" doesn't know how to use an axe. You don't have to "turn the blade" any more than you do with a sword. You turn your wrist, at the end of the swing, and that is done while you're swinging. It comes out just as fast as a club swipe.
simen_88
12-07-04, 01:26 PM It should be noted that most axes are too heavy at the end to wield them with one hand, thus impeding reach. A club has it's weight spread more balanced, so it would be possible to grab only at the end and swing it, although you would have to wait longer between blows.
The Legendary Two Sandals
12-07-04, 02:22 PM look at it like this a bat vs an axe and I'm a batman :D my self.
Silimaure
12-07-04, 02:31 PM I disagree, Thorak. A club doesn't have to be huge to break bones, it doesn't even have to break bones to do internal damage. And internal bleeding can be even worse then outside wounds, since you cannot bandage or tourniquet one.
Yoho1.5
12-07-04, 02:33 PM Long ago I was reading a paper and came across a crime story in which described an assault that was the result of an arguement between roomates. One roomate attacked the other with a replica sword, the victem of the sword attack responed by beating his attacker soundly with a broomstick. If I'm remembering right the by-line of the article was "Broomstick is mighter than the Sword". Maybe the club is mighter than the axe.
Alchahest
12-07-04, 06:28 PM first; police batons are steel bars wrapped in leather. they ARE damaging.
second, nobody is going to use a fifteen pound axe, because they don't exist. and anyone using a fifteen pound club (ie, a really big branch) is asking to be pushed over by someone not overbalanced by every swing.

I'd say it comes down to the skill of the combatants.
Talanall
12-07-04, 06:59 PM If we're talking about real life, between two fellows who're wearing normal street clothing and bashing away with axe or club? Too close to call, frankly. Either one of them can kill or incapacitate with a single blow. The human body is fragile.

In DnD? Depends on the level of the character. For example:

Let's take a pair of butt-naked human warriors, at level 1. Give one a club, and one a battleaxe. Each one has Str 13.

Each one has average NPC hit points for his level (4 hit points, in other words). The axe averages 5.5 hit points of damage. The club averages 4.5 points. Either way, the average damage associated with either weapon is going to leave its victim unconscious and bleeding. The axe might leave its victim slightly bloodier, but otherwise, it's really no contest. The axe is also slightly more likely to hit its victim and leave him dead instantly.

So at 1st level between two members of the same NPC class, who are basically equal in terms of skill, it models pretty much after real life. Either weapon is lethal, and to an extent which is functionally equal to the other.

It doesn't matter, in other words. Getting beaten with a stick is just as lethal as being hit with an axe, IRL.
Alchahest
12-07-04, 07:39 PM at first level, the club-wielder will be able to afford more armor, too ;)
Thorak
12-07-04, 09:36 PM I disagree, Thorak. A club doesn't have to be huge to break bones, it doesn't even have to break bones to do internal damage. And internal bleeding can be even worse then outside wounds, since you cannot bandage or tourniquet one.
Ahh, but internal bleeding tourniquets itself through building up pressure as it fills cavities. It'll kill you, but it'll take hours. Cut a guy's quad in half, and he's got minutes.

Not to mention, any blow with a bludgeoning weapon to the gut serious enough to do internal damage that serious would, delivered with an axe, slice through your intestines. Leaking the nicely septic contents into the rest of your body. Before modern times, if you got stabbed in the belly and the wound smelled of crap, you were a dead man, even if it took a few days. Internal bleeding at least has some chance of healing itself.
Vahenir
12-08-04, 04:29 AM I'm in the "guy who hits first" boat. Or at leat the guy who doesn't get hit by the other guy.

The weapon is fairly irrelevant. It's the hand that wields the weapon.

I could kill a man with a pencil. On the other hand, I bet someone could kill me with a pencil.

But if both men are of EQUAL training, I.E. they are both the pinnacle of warrior-hood. Then the odds are... it's going to be "The first lucky blow" wins the day. Since they'll both be going for vital areas (even a small, lightweight club can crush a throat), and they'll both be intelligent and studied enough to MOVE when the other guy swings... it'll be a long, excrutiating combat.
Thorak
12-08-04, 08:51 AM I should note that I'm also in the "whoever hits first" camp. My point is only that, on a per-hit basis, axes are deadlier than clubs. The same blow with a club that will break an elbow will, with an axe, break the elbow and cause a severe cut that possibly severs an artery. Obviously, though, if the club breaks the other guy's elbow first, the fight's gonna swing to the club-user.
Vahenir
12-08-04, 10:52 PM Heartily agreed, Thorak.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lycrof 12-03-04, 07:12 PM	Me and my friend were argueing about what would win in real life an axe or a club. The weapons are the same weight and the two fighters are equally skilled. I am for the club but club is losing at my school 4 to 7.
Silimaure 12-03-04, 09:57 PM	Depends who hits first, in my opinion.
Thanatos02 12-03-04, 10:52 PM	The Axe wins, due to it being an axe. You know, with an edge and stuff.
Pazuzumaki 12-03-04, 11:33 PM	You can't just say they are the same weight, because if it's a small wood club vs. a hatchet, my moneys of the axe fighter. If it's an enormis club vs. an axe of equivelent size, then it becomes a harder question. Also, what's the club made out of? An enormis club made out of foam poses a different threat then a long, steel shaft that can split open your head with little effort. Oh, and if it's a NIGHT club, then the axe of equal weight chops it and it's patrons to bits.
Quarterstaff 12-04-04, 12:35 AM	by the way unless the ax is sharpened for about an hour with every blow the ax really isnt that sharp in a fight like a 3pd club versus a 3pd ax definatly the ax in a fight like a 15pd club and the ax is 15pds definitly the club just because it can be readied for more blows quicker than the ax because the ax needs to be readied by tilting it with the ax head facing flat
simen_88 12-04-04, 11:14 AM	An axe doesn't need to be sharp to be lethal. It just focuses all the power on a relatively small point and pushes all the flesh to the sides. As long as it is sharp enough to make a cut on impact, it is usually good enough. On topic: A woodcutter's axe vs a baseball bat, the bat wins. It is much faster than the club due to it being lighter, and it has a larger area that deals damage.
Silimaure 12-06-04, 02:39 PM	But you have to ask yourself, what are the conditions? Are they heavily armored? Are they armorless? What is defined by "Of equal skill?" I'm not sure this question can be answered here.
Cathon 12-06-04, 08:04 PM	Well I'd rather be hit in the arm with a big club than with an axe, though either one will kill you if it hits you in the head or neck. Of course, if you up the weight enough, the axe guy can be wielding a halberd, which I'd take over any club, since you can stab with it from a distance. Or you could have a Frankish Throwing axe and take them out before they get to you.
simen_88 12-07-04, 11:48 AM	Of course, if you up the weight enough, the axe guy can be wielding a halberd, which I'd take over any club, since you can stab with it from a distance. Or you could have a Frankish Throwing axe and take them out before they get to you. Yes. But if we up the weight to that level, the other chap has a lucerne hammer. Which is so scary, I would rather be fwapped with a halberd, just because I might not be smacked to pieces, and if I am, it's happening relatively quick.
Dracspero 12-07-04, 12:02 PM	Depends who hits first, in my opinion. Agreed 100% :D
pres_man 12-07-04, 12:46 PM	Let's use a little bit of logic here. If a club were better than axe. Then the person using the axe would turn it so the blunt side was used for swinging and he would then be using a club also. An axe is a club + blade, which one would think would be better then just a club.
Thorak 12-07-04, 01:00 PM	Unless we're talking about clubs big and heavy enough to guarantee broken bones with each hit, the axe. Because the club's doing tissue damage, while the axe is doing tissue damage and cleaving deeper to get at the important bits, and opening bleeding wounds. Hit the guy with an axe and back off. If you hit him good, he's got minutes before he falls over unconscious from blood loss. All you gotta do is stay out of reach. Anywhere you can hit someone with a blunt weapon, a sharp weapon of the same weight will do more damage. For the very simple mathematical reason that force is mass times acceleration. Mass is the same, and the acceleration is the same. Therefore, the force is the same. But in the axe's case, that force is direct along the edge, while the club directs it along a surface. Which means that the axe hits with greater pressure where it hits, doing more damage to what it hits. It's possible to hit someone with an axe and cut deeply into the muscle with a hit that a club would only bruise the muscle with. Again; unless we're talking about a club so big it doesn't matter, because it smashes the bones when it hits anyway, the axe wins. Oh, and whoever said "you have to turn the blade" doesn't know how to use an axe. You don't have to "turn the blade" any more than you do with a sword. You turn your wrist, at the end of the swing, and that is done while you're swinging. It comes out just as fast as a club swipe.
simen_88 12-07-04, 01:26 PM	It should be noted that most axes are too heavy at the end to wield them with one hand, thus impeding reach. A club has it's weight spread more balanced, so it would be possible to grab only at the end and swing it, although you would have to wait longer between blows.
The Legendary Two Sandals 12-07-04, 02:22 PM	look at it like this a bat vs an axe and I'm a batman :D my self.
Silimaure 12-07-04, 02:31 PM	I disagree, Thorak. A club doesn't have to be huge to break bones, it doesn't even have to break bones to do internal damage. And internal bleeding can be even worse then outside wounds, since you cannot bandage or tourniquet one.
Yoho1.5 12-07-04, 02:33 PM	Long ago I was reading a paper and came across a crime story in which described an assault that was the result of an arguement between roomates. One roomate attacked the other with a replica sword, the victem of the sword attack responed by beating his attacker soundly with a broomstick. If I'm remembering right the by-line of the article was "Broomstick is mighter than the Sword". Maybe the club is mighter than the axe.
Alchahest 12-07-04, 06:28 PM	first; police batons are steel bars wrapped in leather. they ARE damaging. second, nobody is going to use a fifteen pound axe, because they don't exist. and anyone using a fifteen pound club (ie, a really big branch) is asking to be pushed over by someone not overbalanced by every swing. I'd say it comes down to the skill of the combatants.
Talanall 12-07-04, 06:59 PM	If we're talking about real life, between two fellows who're wearing normal street clothing and bashing away with axe or club? Too close to call, frankly. Either one of them can kill or incapacitate with a single blow. The human body is fragile. In DnD? Depends on the level of the character. For example: Let's take a pair of butt-naked human warriors, at level 1. Give one a club, and one a battleaxe. Each one has Str 13. Each one has average NPC hit points for his level (4 hit points, in other words). The axe averages 5.5 hit points of damage. The club averages 4.5 points. Either way, the average damage associated with either weapon is going to leave its victim unconscious and bleeding. The axe might leave its victim slightly bloodier, but otherwise, it's really no contest. The axe is also slightly more likely to hit its victim and leave him dead instantly. So at 1st level between two members of the same NPC class, who are basically equal in terms of skill, it models pretty much after real life. Either weapon is lethal, and to an extent which is functionally equal to the other. It doesn't matter, in other words. Getting beaten with a stick is just as lethal as being hit with an axe, IRL.
Alchahest 12-07-04, 07:39 PM	at first level, the club-wielder will be able to afford more armor, too ;)
Thorak 12-07-04, 09:36 PM	I disagree, Thorak. A club doesn't have to be huge to break bones, it doesn't even have to break bones to do internal damage. And internal bleeding can be even worse then outside wounds, since you cannot bandage or tourniquet one. Ahh, but internal bleeding tourniquets itself through building up pressure as it fills cavities. It'll kill you, but it'll take hours. Cut a guy's quad in half, and he's got minutes. Not to mention, any blow with a bludgeoning weapon to the gut serious enough to do internal damage that serious would, delivered with an axe, slice through your intestines. Leaking the nicely septic contents into the rest of your body. Before modern times, if you got stabbed in the belly and the wound smelled of crap, you were a dead man, even if it took a few days. Internal bleeding at least has some chance of healing itself.
Vahenir 12-08-04, 04:29 AM	I'm in the "guy who hits first" boat. Or at leat the guy who doesn't get hit by the other guy. The weapon is fairly irrelevant. It's the hand that wields the weapon. I could kill a man with a pencil. On the other hand, I bet someone could kill me with a pencil. But if both men are of EQUAL training, I.E. they are both the pinnacle of warrior-hood. Then the odds are... it's going to be "The first lucky blow" wins the day. Since they'll both be going for vital areas (even a small, lightweight club can crush a throat), and they'll both be intelligent and studied enough to MOVE when the other guy swings... it'll be a long, excrutiating combat.
Thorak 12-08-04, 08:51 AM	I should note that I'm also in the "whoever hits first" camp. My point is only that, on a per-hit basis, axes are deadlier than clubs. The same blow with a club that will break an elbow will, with an axe, break the elbow and cause a severe cut that possibly severs an artery. Obviously, though, if the club breaks the other guy's elbow first, the fight's gonna swing to the club-user.
Vahenir 12-08-04, 10:52 PM	Heartily agreed, Thorak.