BAB + wildshape question [Archive] - Wizards Community

BAB + wildshape question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
RunLikeHell
01-26-06, 08:55 PM If a character has 1 attack and wildshapes into something with 3 attacks he gets the 3 attacks correct?

Now if the same character with 3 attacks normal wildshapes into the creature with 3 attacks how many attacks does he get?
ShinAkuma2
01-26-06, 09:33 PM When you use natural weapons, your BAB is irrelevant when figuring out number of attacks. You always use the number of attacks presented in the monster manual.

If your tiger (or whatever) has claw-claw-bite, it doesn't matter if your BAB is 2 or 20. You always get claw-claw-bite.
RunLikeHell
01-26-06, 09:48 PM A rhino has 1 attack. If i use a power that gives me claw attacks and another one that gives me a bite attack(serpent venom) what would happen?
Moon-Lancer
01-27-06, 12:08 AM basicly you would choose what is your pimary weapon.

An example is dire lion and charge of the trisaratops.

Your claws are primary, but you could use your horns from charge of the tri as primary, but that would make your claws, and bite both secondary. Most I think you can only have one primary attack while the others are secondary. I am not sure if spells that add new attack types let you chose what is primary or secondary, but in most cases just pick the spell or leave whats already primary and make the rest secondary.

In your case, The rinos horn will only do full strangth to damage, rather then 1.5 strangth to damage.

He will gain X Claw or whatever type and they will become secondary. He will add half his strangth to the secondary attacks, and they attack at a -5

*edit*

srd

Natural Weapons

Natural weapons are weapons that are physically a part of a creature. A creature making a melee attack with a natural weapon is considered armed and does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Likewise, it threatens any space it can reach. Creatures do not receive additional attacks from a high base attack bonus when using natural weapons. The number of attacks a creature can make with its natural weapons depends on the type of the attack—generally, a creature can make one bite attack, one attack per claw or tentacle, one gore attack, one sting attack, or one slam attack (although Large creatures with arms or arm-like limbs can make a slam attack with each arm). Refer to the individual monster descriptions.

Unless otherwise noted, a natural weapon threatens a critical hit on a natural attack roll of 20.

When a creature has more than one natural weapon, one of them (or sometimes a pair or set of them) is the primary weapon. All the creature’s remaining natural weapons are secondary.

The primary weapon is given in the creature’s Attack entry, and the primary weapon or weapons is given first in the creature’s Full Attack entry. A creature’s primary natural weapon is its most effective natural attack, usually by virtue of the creature’s physiology, training, or innate talent with the weapon. An attack with a primary natural weapon uses the creature’s full attack bonus. Attacks with secondary natural weapons are less effective and are made with a -5 penalty on the attack roll, no matter how many there are. (Creatures with the Multiattack feat take only a -2 penalty on secondary attacks.) This penalty applies even when the creature makes a single attack with the secondary weapon as part of the attack action or as an attack of opportunity.

----

I know that creatures with only 1 natural weapon do 1.5 strangth but it dosent say this. You can look at creatures with 1 natural weapon to see that it does. see wolf and rino.

I am actualy unsure that if a rino gets more natural weapons, if its damage with its horn is full damage or x1.5 damage.
Objulen
01-27-06, 12:51 AM You get the natural attacks, but you keep your BAB and do not recieve any extra attacks for extra limbs; otherwise you'd have everyone and their mother going around Polymorphed as a 12 headed pyro/cyrohydra. You get the two claws, and the bite, generally speaking.
Subedei
01-27-06, 05:09 AM Polymorphing into a 12 headed hydra gives you 12 bite attacks, certain feats will give you more bite attacks. I'm of the opinion that hydra is one of the best polymorph forms in existance (barring very high level things, that is).
Objulen
01-27-06, 01:59 PM Polymorphing into a 12 headed hydra gives you 12 bite attacks, certain feats will give you more bite attacks. I'm of the opinion that hydra is one of the best polymorph forms in existance (barring very high level things, that is).

It doesn't let you use all 12 attacks. That's the sort of thing it means when you don't get additional attacks from extra appendages -- heads count. Not only would that be utterly broken, it's just begging for abuse beyond belief, especially with something like Divine Metamagic + Persistant Spell for a Mystic Theurge.
keith187
01-27-06, 05:35 PM When you polymorph or wildshape into something you get that creatures natural attacks in the case of the hydra its natural attacks are 1 bite per head so you would infact get 12 bites for a 12headed hydra. If you want to shape into something really evil shape into a darktenticles only has 9HD so its not to hard to do it gets 12 tenticle attacks each attack that hits you can improved grab to grapple with an amazing +30 bonus. Its a large creature with a reach of 15. Not only that but each tenticle can hold a weapon of up to huge size its proficient with all simple and martial melee weapons. It has an enhanced multiweapon fighting ability when combined with ,ultiattack and multiweapon fighting makes it so it has no penatly for fighting with multipule limbs/weapons. The biggest disadvantage is its land speed is only 5ft but its got a swim speed of 20ft.
Objulen
01-27-06, 06:26 PM A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal.

Many DMs and players find this rule puzzling. Essentially, it means that if you suddenly find yourself with two extra arms you can't just pick up four weapons and wade into melee, use a four-handed weapon, fire and reload a heavy crossbow (even a repeating heavy crossbow) in the same round, or perform any other combat tricks that come to mind. You can make attacks that are "normal" for you or normal for your assumed form, but you can't combine them.

This is from the Polymorph article, #2, I dug up from http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040518a. Since Polymorph doesn't contradict it, it applies.

For the last phrase, it says that you can make attacks that are normal for you or normal for your assumed form... I suppose that means that you would get 12 bite attacks as a 12 headed hydra, but you couldn't use a mouth weapon (say, from Lords of Madness) to get 12 weapon attacks, since hydras don't normally use weapons.

That's just nasty. Get a Bull Strength and a few other buffs on you, and you would be an aboslute terror; if you were a level master transmogrifist, that would give you fast healing 22 as well.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RunLikeHell 01-26-06, 08:55 PM	If a character has 1 attack and wildshapes into something with 3 attacks he gets the 3 attacks correct? Now if the same character with 3 attacks normal wildshapes into the creature with 3 attacks how many attacks does he get?
ShinAkuma2 01-26-06, 09:33 PM	When you use natural weapons, your BAB is irrelevant when figuring out number of attacks. You always use the number of attacks presented in the monster manual. If your tiger (or whatever) has claw-claw-bite, it doesn't matter if your BAB is 2 or 20. You always get claw-claw-bite.
RunLikeHell 01-26-06, 09:48 PM	A rhino has 1 attack. If i use a power that gives me claw attacks and another one that gives me a bite attack(serpent venom) what would happen?
Moon-Lancer 01-27-06, 12:08 AM	basicly you would choose what is your pimary weapon. An example is dire lion and charge of the trisaratops. Your claws are primary, but you could use your horns from charge of the tri as primary, but that would make your claws, and bite both secondary. Most I think you can only have one primary attack while the others are secondary. I am not sure if spells that add new attack types let you chose what is primary or secondary, but in most cases just pick the spell or leave whats already primary and make the rest secondary. In your case, The rinos horn will only do full strangth to damage, rather then 1.5 strangth to damage. He will gain X Claw or whatever type and they will become secondary. He will add half his strangth to the secondary attacks, and they attack at a -5 edit srd Natural Weapons Natural weapons are weapons that are physically a part of a creature. A creature making a melee attack with a natural weapon is considered armed and does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Likewise, it threatens any space it can reach. Creatures do not receive additional attacks from a high base attack bonus when using natural weapons. The number of attacks a creature can make with its natural weapons depends on the type of the attack—generally, a creature can make one bite attack, one attack per claw or tentacle, one gore attack, one sting attack, or one slam attack (although Large creatures with arms or arm-like limbs can make a slam attack with each arm). Refer to the individual monster descriptions. Unless otherwise noted, a natural weapon threatens a critical hit on a natural attack roll of 20. When a creature has more than one natural weapon, one of them (or sometimes a pair or set of them) is the primary weapon. All the creature’s remaining natural weapons are secondary. The primary weapon is given in the creature’s Attack entry, and the primary weapon or weapons is given first in the creature’s Full Attack entry. A creature’s primary natural weapon is its most effective natural attack, usually by virtue of the creature’s physiology, training, or innate talent with the weapon. An attack with a primary natural weapon uses the creature’s full attack bonus. Attacks with secondary natural weapons are less effective and are made with a -5 penalty on the attack roll, no matter how many there are. (Creatures with the Multiattack feat take only a -2 penalty on secondary attacks.) This penalty applies even when the creature makes a single attack with the secondary weapon as part of the attack action or as an attack of opportunity. ---- I know that creatures with only 1 natural weapon do 1.5 strangth but it dosent say this. You can look at creatures with 1 natural weapon to see that it does. see wolf and rino. I am actualy unsure that if a rino gets more natural weapons, if its damage with its horn is full damage or x1.5 damage.
Objulen 01-27-06, 12:51 AM	You get the natural attacks, but you keep your BAB and do not recieve any extra attacks for extra limbs; otherwise you'd have everyone and their mother going around Polymorphed as a 12 headed pyro/cyrohydra. You get the two claws, and the bite, generally speaking.
Subedei 01-27-06, 05:09 AM	Polymorphing into a 12 headed hydra gives you 12 bite attacks, certain feats will give you more bite attacks. I'm of the opinion that hydra is one of the best polymorph forms in existance (barring very high level things, that is).
Objulen 01-27-06, 01:59 PM	Polymorphing into a 12 headed hydra gives you 12 bite attacks, certain feats will give you more bite attacks. I'm of the opinion that hydra is one of the best polymorph forms in existance (barring very high level things, that is). It doesn't let you use all 12 attacks. That's the sort of thing it means when you don't get additional attacks from extra appendages -- heads count. Not only would that be utterly broken, it's just begging for abuse beyond belief, especially with something like Divine Metamagic + Persistant Spell for a Mystic Theurge.
keith187 01-27-06, 05:35 PM	When you polymorph or wildshape into something you get that creatures natural attacks in the case of the hydra its natural attacks are 1 bite per head so you would infact get 12 bites for a 12headed hydra. If you want to shape into something really evil shape into a darktenticles only has 9HD so its not to hard to do it gets 12 tenticle attacks each attack that hits you can improved grab to grapple with an amazing +30 bonus. Its a large creature with a reach of 15. Not only that but each tenticle can hold a weapon of up to huge size its proficient with all simple and martial melee weapons. It has an enhanced multiweapon fighting ability when combined with ,ultiattack and multiweapon fighting makes it so it has no penatly for fighting with multipule limbs/weapons. The biggest disadvantage is its land speed is only 5ft but its got a swim speed of 20ft.
Objulen 01-27-06, 06:26 PM	A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal. Many DMs and players find this rule puzzling. Essentially, it means that if you suddenly find yourself with two extra arms you can't just pick up four weapons and wade into melee, use a four-handed weapon, fire and reload a heavy crossbow (even a repeating heavy crossbow) in the same round, or perform any other combat tricks that come to mind. You can make attacks that are "normal" for you or normal for your assumed form, but you can't combine them. This is from the Polymorph article, #2, I dug up from http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040518a. Since Polymorph doesn't contradict it, it applies. For the last phrase, it says that you can make attacks that are normal for you or normal for your assumed form... I suppose that means that you would get 12 bite attacks as a 12 headed hydra, but you couldn't use a mouth weapon (say, from Lords of Madness) to get 12 weapon attacks, since hydras don't normally use weapons. That's just nasty. Get a Bull Strength and a few other buffs on you, and you would be an aboslute terror; if you were a level master transmogrifist, that would give you fast healing 22 as well.