Post/Author/DateTime	Post
OzyBurrfoot 09-29-06, 12:03 PM	I'm starting a game that includes a rogue who has taken the Whisper Knife prestige class from Races of Stone and so has a focus on using daggers. What the player wants is a replenishing bag of daggers similar to the Quiver of Elhonna. To just get the game started what I gave him was a bag that gave him an unlimited supply of of non-magical, non-masterworked daggers for 6,000 gp. What I'd like to do is figure a better (and correct) way to do something like this, maybe even including a way to make the daggers magical, or of different materials.
Deathmond 09-29-06, 02:23 PM	This seems like a decent way to do it...Take the quiver of ehlonna, make it produce daggers instead, and call it finished :D maybe make it a bit more expensive as daggers are more expensive than arows (I think...)
Ogreman 09-29-06, 02:59 PM	Or, use one dagger with the greater returning ability. That way the character can attack with it constantly. I believe it's a +3 ability, but I don't remember where I saw it. Maybe the Arms & Equipment Guide?
Karma 09-29-06, 05:13 PM	I had a similar rogue in my game that had a thing for throwing daggers. I gave her The Belt of Sharp and Shiny Objects. Essentially it was a bandoleer of daggers that allowed two daggers to be drawn and thrown per attack. All of the daggers had the returning quality. If you moved before the daggers you just threw returned, there was a 50% chance that they would still return to your previous position. Each of the 10 daggers could be imbued with an energy burst quality for the price (per dagger) but nothing more. If a dagger was keep out of the bandoleer for more than 24 hours, it lost all magical qualities until reunited with the set at which point it became a +1 returning dagger again. I could have made it a powerfull relic left by some ancient knife-fighter... but that seemed pretty groovie for a 8th level character.
RecycledDM 09-29-06, 05:44 PM	How about a dagger sheath that instantaneously replenishes itself with a new, normal, non-magical (well, masterwork maybe...) dagger as soon as one is drawn. With the quickdraw feat, one could draw as many daggers from it in a round as one can wield or throw. But they aren't "real" daggers...rather some kind of semi-real "shadow" daggers, such that one round after being drawn they disappear (that way the item can't be used as a money fountain, or to arm an army). Perhaps the sheath can produce daggers made from special materials (silver, cold iron, etc.) or that, while not adding any magic bonuses, can get around damage reductions (e.g., DR/magic), but only one dagger per spoken command word (which takes up an action), and only a limited number of times per day. Ultimately, the only real difference between this and carrying around ALOT of daggers is weight savings. As for crafting requirements and costs...I don't know.
OzyBurrfoot 09-30-06, 02:05 AM	How about a dagger sheath that instantaneously replenishes itself with a new, normal, non-magical (well, masterwork maybe...) dagger as soon as one is drawn. With the quickdraw feat, one could draw as many daggers from it in a round as one can wield or throw. But they aren't "real" daggers...rather some kind of semi-real "shadow" daggers, such that one round after being drawn they disappear (that way the item can't be used as a money fountain, or to arm an army). Perhaps the sheath can produce daggers made from special materials (silver, cold iron, etc.) or that, while not adding any magic bonuses, can get around damage reductions (e.g., DR/magic), but only one dagger per spoken command word (which takes up an action), and only a limited number of times per day. Ultimately, the only real difference between this and carrying around ALOT of daggers is weight savings. As for crafting requirements and costs...I don't know. Hmm, I like this idea, I'll have to see if I can come up with a way to explain / detail it.
RavenDrake 10-01-06, 10:40 AM	Shadowblade Sheathe: The Shadowblade sheathe appears to be typical bandolier capable of holding approximately 10 daggers, darts, or similar small throwing weapons. However, the bandoliers automatically replenish themselves with standard or magical blades, such that they are always full. Some bandoliers also create blades made of special materials, such as adamantine, cold iron, or alchemical silver. Once a blade is taken from the bandolier, it must be used within 1 round or it vanishes. Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard daggers), 29,000 gp (masterwork daggers), 32,000 gp (+1 daggers), 44,000 gp (+2 daggers), 64,000 gp (+3 daggers), 92,000 gp (+4 daggers), 128,000 gp (+5 daggers); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine daggers, +4,005 gp for cold iron daggers, or +200 gp for alchemical silver daggers; Weight 1 lb. There, ripped straight from the Quiver of Anerial(I can't find it on the site, but it used to be up as a "Web Enhancement" page), replaced arrows with daggers and boom. They vanish one round after use, so no "money fountain" effect, can be magical, and/or special material. Now, they produce a weapon that can be used in melee combat without penalty, but that's balanced, I think, by the fact they deal only d4 damage as either melee or ranged compared to the arrow's ranged damage capibility, so it feels balanced to me.
OzyBurrfoot 10-01-06, 08:38 PM	Shadowblade Sheathe: The Shadowblade sheathe appears to be typical bandolier capable of holding approximately 10 daggers, darts, or similar small throwing weapons. However, the bandoliers automatically replenish themselves with standard or magical blades, such that they are always full. Some bandoliers also create blades made of special materials, such as adamantine, cold iron, or alchemical silver. Once a blade is taken from the bandolier, it must be used within 1 round or it vanishes. Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard daggers), 29,000 gp (masterwork daggers), 32,000 gp (+1 daggers), 44,000 gp (+2 daggers), 64,000 gp (+3 daggers), 92,000 gp (+4 daggers), 128,000 gp (+5 daggers); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine daggers, +4,005 gp for cold iron daggers, or +200 gp for alchemical silver daggers; Weight 1 lb. Wow, thats perfect, thanks a ton. I know my player will love it.
king12341234 10-01-06, 10:25 PM	Shadowblade Sheathe: The Shadowblade sheathe appears to be typical bandolier capable of holding approximately 10 daggers, darts, or similar small throwing weapons. However, the bandoliers automatically replenish themselves with standard or magical blades, such that they are always full. Some bandoliers also create blades made of special materials, such as adamantine, cold iron, or alchemical silver. Once a blade is taken from the bandolier, it must be used within 1 round or it vanishes. Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard daggers), 29,000 gp (masterwork daggers), 32,000 gp (+1 daggers), 44,000 gp (+2 daggers), 64,000 gp (+3 daggers), 92,000 gp (+4 daggers), 128,000 gp (+5 daggers); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine daggers, +4,005 gp for cold iron daggers, or +200 gp for alchemical silver daggers; Weight 1 lb. There, ripped straight from the Quiver of Anerial(I can't find it on the site, but it used to be up as a "Web Enhancement" page), replaced arrows with daggers and boom. They vanish one round after use, so no "money fountain" effect, can be magical, and/or special material. Now, they produce a weapon that can be used in melee combat without penalty, but that's balanced, I think, by the fact they deal only d4 damage as either melee or ranged compared to the arrow's ranged damage capibility, so it feels balanced to me. being a dagger not an arrow would it be out of line to extend the time to one min. so it could be used in melee
StruckingFuggle 10-01-06, 10:37 PM	Shadowblade Sheathe: The Shadowblade sheathe appears to be typical bandolier capable of holding approximately 10 daggers, darts, or similar small throwing weapons. However, the bandoliers automatically replenish themselves with standard or magical blades, such that they are always full. Some bandoliers also create blades made of special materials, such as adamantine, cold iron, or alchemical silver. Once a blade is taken from the bandolier, it must be used within 1 round or it vanishes. Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard daggers), 29,000 gp (masterwork daggers), 32,000 gp (+1 daggers), 44,000 gp (+2 daggers), 64,000 gp (+3 daggers), 92,000 gp (+4 daggers), 128,000 gp (+5 daggers); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine daggers, +4,005 gp for cold iron daggers, or +200 gp for alchemical silver daggers; Weight 1 lb. There, ripped straight from the Quiver of Anerial(I can't find it on the site, but it used to be up as a "Web Enhancement" page), replaced arrows with daggers and boom. They vanish one round after use, so no "money fountain" effect, can be magical, and/or special material. Now, they produce a weapon that can be used in melee combat without penalty, but that's balanced, I think, by the fact they deal only d4 damage as either melee or ranged compared to the arrow's ranged damage capibility, so it feels balanced to me. Do they have to be +1-+5, or could they be, say, +1 Wounding Daggers?
OzyBurrfoot 10-01-06, 11:27 PM	being a dagger not an arrow would it be out of line to extend the time to one min. so it could be used in melee Hmm, that's a valid point, but that could also open the door to abuses with being sold, so I may leave it at 1 round and then the character must have Quick Draw in order to use this effectively in melee. Do they have to be +1-+5, or could they be, say, +1 Wounding Daggers? I'm guessing thats allowable, the +1 to +5 listing is for equivalent bonuses.
RavenDrake 10-02-06, 12:18 AM	Uh.. they can be used in melee... They last a full round(from the point you draw them from the Sheathe until the very start of your next iniative). So you can draw two and use them in melee with no problem(they'll simply fade away to be replaced by new ones); heck, they'll even stay in hand to be used for attacks of opportunity. Since this is the sort of thing a thrower would have anyway, Quickdraw is pretty much already assumed to be in the mix, so the idea of having to draw a new melee weapon every round isn't so daunting. As for allowing the sheathe to produce special effects like Flameing or what-not... I'm not so sure. There's a big difference in being able to produce as many +2 daggers a turn as you can throw compared to produceing as many +1 Shocking daggers. The creators of the original Quiver I based this on liste donly enhancement bonuses, so whether thier intention was to allow ONLY that or ONLY up to +5 in all modifiers, I can't say. I think, however, if you put the cap on the effect at +5 for all combined enhancement bonus and enchantments, then it would be acceptable....
StruckingFuggle 10-02-06, 01:09 AM	I think, however, if you put the cap on the effect at +5 for all combined enhancement bonus and enchantments, then it would be acceptable.... ... +1 Wounding Daggers ... master thrower ... rapid shot + palm throw + weak spot + the one that denies them dex bonus = oooooh. I want one...
gorfnad the shiznit 10-02-06, 01:24 AM	Shadowblade Sheathe: The Shadowblade sheathe appears to be typical bandolier capable of holding approximately 10 daggers, darts, or similar small throwing weapons. However, the bandoliers automatically replenish themselves with standard or magical blades, such that they are always full. Some bandoliers also create blades made of special materials, such as adamantine, cold iron, or alchemical silver. Once a blade is taken from the bandolier, it must be used within 1 round or it vanishes. Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard daggers), 29,000 gp (masterwork daggers), 32,000 gp (+1 daggers), 44,000 gp (+2 daggers), 64,000 gp (+3 daggers), 92,000 gp (+4 daggers), 128,000 gp (+5 daggers); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine daggers, +4,005 gp for cold iron daggers, or +200 gp for alchemical silver daggers; Weight 1 lb. There, ripped straight from the Quiver of Anerial(I can't find it on the site, but it used to be up as a "Web Enhancement" page), replaced arrows with daggers and boom. They vanish one round after use, so no "money fountain" effect, can be magical, and/or special material. Now, they produce a weapon that can be used in melee combat without penalty, but that's balanced, I think, by the fact they deal only d4 damage as either melee or ranged compared to the arrow's ranged damage capibility, so it feels balanced to me. Yoink, hmmm can't find the Quiver of Anerial as well for some strange reason
RavenDrake 10-02-06, 09:29 AM	... +1 Wounding Daggers ... master thrower ... rapid shot + palm throw + weak spot + the one that denies them dex bonus = oooooh. I want one... Heh... Yeah, but that's a +4 bonus you're looking at (98K gp). For that much you could have 150 +1 Wounding Shuriken made... As for the Quiver... they probably took it down (either when the server was undergoing maintainence or to replace it with something else). The prices and prerequisites I listed are word for word on the quiver, so just make it arrows and you're back where I started. :D
StruckingFuggle 10-02-06, 03:00 PM	Heh... Yeah, but that's a +4 bonus you're looking at (98K gp). For that much you could have 150 +1 Wounding Shuriken made... +3, unless they bumped Wounding up in errata I've never seen... Which would give you more throwing stars, yeah, but considering a good master thrower can throw up to / at least fourteen daggers a round (as touch attacks, once they hit MT5!) ... they wouldn't last very long. :)
RavenDrake 10-02-06, 03:44 PM	Oops.. you're right. I've bumped Wounding to +3 in my games... but baseline it's +2. Though, to be honest, that's a pretty specific build they've got going there in terms of feats and items, and I think that creating a magic item to enhance that isn't so bad.
Angatyr 12-20-06, 08:14 PM	As for the "money fountain" effect, does the quiver of ehlonna have anything to deal with that, or can you sell all the arrows?
zzakk2to2 12-21-06, 10:50 AM	how about you making it so that the round before it disapears starts when it leaves your hand so they dont have to constantly quick draw every turn for melee.
Echo_that_Pains 12-21-06, 11:02 AM	*post deleted due to poster's temporary lack of reading comprehension*