Balanced weapons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Balanced weapons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Fanged Fremont
06-29-05, 12:57 PM Hi, I'm a new DM starting a campaign with a couple of experienced and unexperieneced players.

One of our more knowledgable players, our last DM in fact, created basically another Drizzt Do'Urden wannabe (with katanas instead of scimitars) for his character in my campaign. He's trying to convince me that a katana is a "balanced weapon" and can be used in the off hand as though it were a light weapon.

Now I think this whole thing just sounds silly, so I felt I should do some research on it. Luckily we haven't started yet so I won't be taking away anything he already had.

From what I found, the Katana is basically a masterwork bastardsword that takes an exotic weapon proficiency to be able to weild one handed. That alone seems proof enough against this whole 'balanced' thing. That and I haven't found anything on "Balanced" weapons period, although I must admit it does sound familiar.

I guess my first question is, can a katana be used in the offhand as if it were a light weapon if you're of medium size. My next question is what is a "balanced" weapon? If it is some kind of enhancement? and if so how many points is it in terms of pricing?

I guess I'd feel more apt to allow this balanced thing if they weren't already 1d10 +1 weapons.
Jaid
06-29-05, 01:09 PM the only time i've ever heard of a "balanced" ability was homebrew on the boards. however, every time someone suggests something about gear, it seems to be in the Arms and Equipment Guide. dunno if you checked there, but it might be a good place to look.

also, i have heard of a feat called oversized two weapon fighting, or some such thing. you may want to look into that.

also, he may be using Katana that are not from the DMG (some other asian weapons are different from the rules in the DMG).
Rikimaru
06-29-05, 01:10 PM My answer? no.

Katanas were generally used 2-handed, but occasionally 1 handed, which is why they are treated as bastard swords in D&D.
philarete
06-29-05, 01:23 PM I guess my first question is, can a katana be used in the offhand as if it were a light weapon if you're of medium size. My next question is what is a "balanced" weapon? If it is some kind of enhancement? and if so how many points is it in terms of pricing?

I guess I'd feel more apt to allow this balanced thing if they weren't already 1d10 +1 weapons.

There's no such thing as a "balanced" weapon. Your player is trying to pull one over on you. A katana is just a masterwork bastard sword. Nothing more, nothing less.

Tell him he can take wield it without penalty in his off-hand if he takes the oversized two-weapon fighting feat. If you let him do this without a feat, you're just giving him a free feat.

You say you're a new DM, so this is a very good time to learn how to say "No" to your players. Learn how to do this at low levels, or your game will be out of control when you get to high levels.
ManinBlaq
06-29-05, 01:25 PM Just require that he takes the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Katana), like he would do if he was wanting to use a Bastard Sword 1-Handed.

There ..now he can use it one-handed. He deals more damage compared a to a more appropriate light weapon, takes a -4 / -4 when TWF, and required a feat to be able to do it.

Later he could further invest in Oversized Off Handed Weapon -- (complete adventurer), and shave off some of the TWF penalties.

'Balanced' comes from the Arms and Equipment guide (3E), pg 96. Effectively, it gives you the benefits of Monkey Grip (3E version). It's price is a +2 bonus.

Keep in mind that the 3E version of monkey grip is different than the 3.5 version.

If you're willing to humor the idea: an appropriate 3.5 upgrade for Balanced, would be give him the benefit of the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Katana) feat, or even the 3.5 monkey grip.
Considering that with that same +2 he could have a Flaming, Shocking (+2d6 damage) anything -- the damage is relative.

One other point is: if you're starting at level 1, he's not going to have access to a +3 weapon.
Fanged Fremont
06-29-05, 01:48 PM This isn't the thing he's tried to pull on me. He's also tried to say that shadowed armor adds to both hide and move silently checks and that repeating crossbows fire in 2 round bursts, but I quickly dispelled those. Although I did let him keep those drow sunglasses that prevented light blindness, but oh well.

Thank you all for your help.
makeshiftwings
06-29-05, 02:18 PM If you've got the type of player who likes to make up rules and pretend they're official, make sure you get him to point out where in the books they are if anything sounds fishy. Don't accept "The rule's in there somewhere, I swear!" Even if you do find the rule in an obscure book somewhere, you still shouldn't be afraid to say No. Or if you are, then just throw a whole bunch of dual-greataxe-weilding evil Drizzts with three extra arms for holding rapid-fire hand crossbows at him until he gets the point.
Fanged Fremont
06-29-05, 02:24 PM Or if you are, then just throw a whole bunch of dual-greataxe-weilding evil Drizzts with three extra arms for holding rapid-fire hand crossbows at him until he gets the point.

I think I'll do that anyway. What would be the CR on something like that? :plotting:
ManinBlaq
06-29-05, 02:56 PM 2 .. as long as it's followed by an evil laugh.
Shadeofhades
06-29-05, 05:24 PM IIRC, there IS a "Balanced" enhancement...I believe it's listed in the A&EG mentioned earlier...and it lets you wield a weapon one size category larger than you should be able to without penalty. Given the size penalty/wielding chart which is around WotC's site somewhere, a balanced Katana MIGHT be considerable as a light weapon - assuming that you accept that being able to wield it one-handed makes it equal to a one-handed weapon (an argument I've seen around here before I actually joined to post). This is not to say that anything, esp. Katanas, gets it without being magical.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fanged Fremont 06-29-05, 12:57 PM	Hi, I'm a new DM starting a campaign with a couple of experienced and unexperieneced players. One of our more knowledgable players, our last DM in fact, created basically another Drizzt Do'Urden wannabe (with katanas instead of scimitars) for his character in my campaign. He's trying to convince me that a katana is a "balanced weapon" and can be used in the off hand as though it were a light weapon. Now I think this whole thing just sounds silly, so I felt I should do some research on it. Luckily we haven't started yet so I won't be taking away anything he already had. From what I found, the Katana is basically a masterwork bastardsword that takes an exotic weapon proficiency to be able to weild one handed. That alone seems proof enough against this whole 'balanced' thing. That and I haven't found anything on "Balanced" weapons period, although I must admit it does sound familiar. I guess my first question is, can a katana be used in the offhand as if it were a light weapon if you're of medium size. My next question is what is a "balanced" weapon? If it is some kind of enhancement? and if so how many points is it in terms of pricing? I guess I'd feel more apt to allow this balanced thing if they weren't already 1d10 +1 weapons.
Jaid 06-29-05, 01:09 PM	the only time i've ever heard of a "balanced" ability was homebrew on the boards. however, every time someone suggests something about gear, it seems to be in the Arms and Equipment Guide. dunno if you checked there, but it might be a good place to look. also, i have heard of a feat called oversized two weapon fighting, or some such thing. you may want to look into that. also, he may be using Katana that are not from the DMG (some other asian weapons are different from the rules in the DMG).
Rikimaru 06-29-05, 01:10 PM	My answer? no. Katanas were generally used 2-handed, but occasionally 1 handed, which is why they are treated as bastard swords in D&D.
philarete 06-29-05, 01:23 PM	I guess my first question is, can a katana be used in the offhand as if it were a light weapon if you're of medium size. My next question is what is a "balanced" weapon? If it is some kind of enhancement? and if so how many points is it in terms of pricing? I guess I'd feel more apt to allow this balanced thing if they weren't already 1d10 +1 weapons. There's no such thing as a "balanced" weapon. Your player is trying to pull one over on you. A katana is just a masterwork bastard sword. Nothing more, nothing less. Tell him he can take wield it without penalty in his off-hand if he takes the oversized two-weapon fighting feat. If you let him do this without a feat, you're just giving him a free feat. You say you're a new DM, so this is a very good time to learn how to say "No" to your players. Learn how to do this at low levels, or your game will be out of control when you get to high levels.
ManinBlaq 06-29-05, 01:25 PM	Just require that he takes the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Katana), like he would do if he was wanting to use a Bastard Sword 1-Handed. There ..now he can use it one-handed. He deals more damage compared a to a more appropriate light weapon, takes a -4 / -4 when TWF, and required a feat to be able to do it. Later he could further invest in Oversized Off Handed Weapon -- (complete adventurer), and shave off some of the TWF penalties. 'Balanced' comes from the Arms and Equipment guide (3E), pg 96. Effectively, it gives you the benefits of Monkey Grip (3E version). It's price is a +2 bonus. Keep in mind that the 3E version of monkey grip is different than the 3.5 version. If you're willing to humor the idea: an appropriate 3.5 upgrade for Balanced, would be give him the benefit of the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Katana) feat, or even the 3.5 monkey grip. Considering that with that same +2 he could have a Flaming, Shocking (+2d6 damage) anything -- the damage is relative. One other point is: if you're starting at level 1, he's not going to have access to a +3 weapon.
Fanged Fremont 06-29-05, 01:48 PM	This isn't the thing he's tried to pull on me. He's also tried to say that shadowed armor adds to both hide and move silently checks and that repeating crossbows fire in 2 round bursts, but I quickly dispelled those. Although I did let him keep those drow sunglasses that prevented light blindness, but oh well. Thank you all for your help.
makeshiftwings 06-29-05, 02:18 PM	If you've got the type of player who likes to make up rules and pretend they're official, make sure you get him to point out where in the books they are if anything sounds fishy. Don't accept "The rule's in there somewhere, I swear!" Even if you do find the rule in an obscure book somewhere, you still shouldn't be afraid to say No. Or if you are, then just throw a whole bunch of dual-greataxe-weilding evil Drizzts with three extra arms for holding rapid-fire hand crossbows at him until he gets the point.
Fanged Fremont 06-29-05, 02:24 PM	Or if you are, then just throw a whole bunch of dual-greataxe-weilding evil Drizzts with three extra arms for holding rapid-fire hand crossbows at him until he gets the point. I think I'll do that anyway. What would be the CR on something like that? :plotting:
ManinBlaq 06-29-05, 02:56 PM	2 .. as long as it's followed by an evil laugh.
Shadeofhades 06-29-05, 05:24 PM	IIRC, there IS a "Balanced" enhancement...I believe it's listed in the A&EG mentioned earlier...and it lets you wield a weapon one size category larger than you should be able to without penalty. Given the size penalty/wielding chart which is around WotC's site somewhere, a balanced Katana MIGHT be considerable as a light weapon - assuming that you accept that being able to wield it one-handed makes it equal to a one-handed weapon (an argument I've seen around here before I actually joined to post). This is not to say that anything, esp. Katanas, gets it without being magical.