Ballistas [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Ballistas [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tommyboy
04-11-07, 09:40 PM Can ranged weapon feats (point blank shot, far shot, penetrating shot ect.) be used with ballistas? Or Gnome crossbow sights (Arms and Equipment Guide)?

Also can they be enchanted as crossbows, ie Quick Loading from the AEG? And, if so what kind of action would be needed to reload them?

And lastly, does having multiple people reduce the standard loading time, and could/would this stack with any reductions from Quick Loading?
dengarbountyhunter
04-12-07, 09:26 AM If ballistas were Gargantuan crossbows, yes. But then the user would suffer a -2 penalty to attack roll per size category difference.

Just because a greatsword is ALMOST a Large longsword doesn't mean that you can apply the same feats (Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, etc.).
Steevo
04-12-07, 11:47 AM I agree with Dengar. Ballistae are siege weapons and their operation does not invoke any normal feats for ranged weapons. I don't know if there's a book out there with feats for siege weapons (though I wouldn't be surprised if there is.)

Regarding magic enchament, you probably can't enchant them as ranged weapons, although I would allow ballista bolts to be enchanted as ammunition.
rironin
04-12-07, 11:55 AM I believe the most recent book to give ballista and other siege weapons a look was Heroes of Battle. Don't have it in front of me, but there are rules for an operator in charge of aiming the weapon and a crew of people to operate the weapon. I believe that the larger and more skilled your crew, the faster and easier it is to operate.

There were some magical siege weapons in the book as well - not sure if there were guidelines for trying to apply regular ranged weapon enhancements to siege weapons, but I would be very careful about doing this. I can't recall, but I do think there was a quick-loading enchantment for siege weapons in the book - the pricing may have been different than a rapid reload enchantment for a crossbow, since the weapon itself is so different.
draconic_swine
04-12-07, 12:01 PM According to the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/wilderness.htm#siegeEngines), a ballista is "essentially a Huge heavy crossbow fixed in place:

Ballista
A ballista is essentially a Huge heavy crossbow fixed in place. Its size makes it hard for most creatures to aim it. Thus, a Medium creature takes a -4 penalty on attack rolls when using a ballista, and a Small creature takes a -6 penalty. It takes a creature smaller than Large two full-round actions to reload the ballista after firing.

A ballista takes up a space 5 feet across.

Whether or not "essentially" means that it is a Huge heavy crossbow and that a Titan who wanders by could pick it up and start using it without penalty, or that it functions like a Huge heavy crossbow but isn't really one, is up to interpretation.

Either way, I'd suggest making a feat (Siege Expert or Ballista Expert or something along those lines) that allows the operator to apply any feats he has that can affect crossbows. The feat would probably require some requirements (5 ranks in Profession: Siege Engine Operator, perhaps?), nor would I allow all feats to apply (weapon focus and weapon specialization, and probably a number of the crossbow feats from the PHBII, for example).

If you don't think a ballista is a Huge heavy crossbow I think this is a fair way to apply feats, and even if you do think a ballista is a Huge heavy crossbow I'm not sure how I feel about automatically applying your crossbow feats to a weapon you can't even hold.

I'd allow the ballista and its ammunition to be enhanced as ranged weapons.

According to the description in the SRD, having multiple operators doesn't reduce loading time, so they wouldn't affect Rapid Reload/Quick Loading.
Zaistars69
04-12-07, 12:22 PM dude a flaming balista on a ship would be awsome. Think of it, you see an enemy ship in the distance, as you all get within range the ballista ammo on the opposing ship spring into flames. you're captain whispers oh, shi double hockey sticks.
xaqariah
04-12-07, 01:04 PM dude a flaming balista on a ship would be awsome. Think of it, you see an enemy ship in the distance, as you all get within range the ballista ammo on the opposing ship spring into flames. you're captain whispers oh, shi double hockey sticks.

Shrink Item
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: One touched object of up to 2 cu. ft./level
Duration: One day/level; see text
Saving Throw: Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (object)
You are able to shrink one nonmagical item (if it is within the size limit) to 1/16 of its normal size in each dimension (to about 1/4,000 the original volume and mass). This change effectively reduces the object’s size by four categories. Optionally, you can also change its now shrunken composition to a clothlike one. Objects changed by a shrink item spell can be returned to normal composition and size merely by tossing them onto any solid surface or by a word of command from the original caster. Even a burning fire and its fuel can be shrunk by this spell. Restoring the shrunken object to its normal size and composition ends the spell.
Shrink item can be made permanent with a permanency spell, in which case the affected object can be shrunk and expanded an indefinite number of times, but only by the original caster.

... at Level 5, you can "shrink" 10 cu feet of burnung oil into a nice fuzzy blanket...

... tie the "blanket" to the end of the ballista bolt...

... fire at enemy ship and watch it (and a portion of the exposed crew) burst into flames as the burning oil "magically" reappears...

>_> stay away (very VERY far away) from dispells...

:D
rironin
04-12-07, 01:22 PM I'd allow the ballista and its ammunition to be enhanced as ranged weapons.

According to the description in the SRD, having multiple operators doesn't reduce loading time, so they wouldn't affect Rapid Reload/Quick Loading.The DMG/SRD does provide simple rules for using siege weapons. As I mentioned, Heroes of Battle provides rules that augment and supersede the DMG rules if you want more detail and additional mechanics to govern siege engines.

Heroes of Battle states that siege weapons can be magically enhanced just like other weapons, although an additional flat cost applies (sort of like masterwork only more - siege weapons themselves can and must be masterwork in order to be magically enhanced). There is also a Self-Loading magical property for siege weapons that obviates the need for Profession (siege engineer) checks and Strength checks normally required by the crew chief or the crew to load the weapon, and reduces the time needed to load the weapon by one full-round action, to a minimum of one full-round action. The fact that the Self-Loading property exists certainly rules out using a rapid-reloading crossbow feat or magical enhancement to make reloading faster.

Having multiple operators does make reloading faster, as per the rules in Heroes of Battle.
Tommyboy
04-12-07, 04:20 PM Thank you for the replies everyone, I will have to look into Hero's of Battle. Also since the penalty goes up by 2 per size category I think it should* just be a huge crossbow, how that would affect quick loading I'm not sure.

* Just because something should work one way, rarely means it does.
antsterr
04-12-07, 06:43 PM dude a flaming balista on a ship would be awsome. Think of it, you see an enemy ship in the distance, as you all get within range the ballista ammo on the opposing ship spring into flames. you're captain whispers oh, shi double hockey sticks.

Very nice mental image until the captain whipsers "shill":P
Zaistars69
04-13-07, 11:30 AM Very nice mental image until the captain whipsers "shill":P

I don't get it, what's shill?
antsterr
04-13-07, 12:36 PM Shi double hockey sticks.
As is "H E double hockey sticks". hockey sticks look like a capitlal "L" so H E double hockey sticks is a short way of saying hell.
Shi double hockey sticks just doesn't work.
Zaistars69
04-13-07, 12:57 PM Shi double hockey sticks.
As is "H E double hockey sticks". hockey sticks look like a capitlal "L" so H E double hockey sticks is a short way of saying hell.
Shi double hockey sticks just doesn't work.

I was wondering how long it would take someone to figure that one out. I bet most people read it and didn't think anything of it. hehe, gotta love it. Come on you know you love the SHILL!!!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tommyboy 04-11-07, 09:40 PM	Can ranged weapon feats (point blank shot, far shot, penetrating shot ect.) be used with ballistas? Or Gnome crossbow sights (Arms and Equipment Guide)? Also can they be enchanted as crossbows, ie Quick Loading from the AEG? And, if so what kind of action would be needed to reload them? And lastly, does having multiple people reduce the standard loading time, and could/would this stack with any reductions from Quick Loading?
dengarbountyhunter 04-12-07, 09:26 AM	If ballistas were Gargantuan crossbows, yes. But then the user would suffer a -2 penalty to attack roll per size category difference. Just because a greatsword is ALMOST a Large longsword doesn't mean that you can apply the same feats (Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, etc.).
Steevo 04-12-07, 11:47 AM	I agree with Dengar. Ballistae are siege weapons and their operation does not invoke any normal feats for ranged weapons. I don't know if there's a book out there with feats for siege weapons (though I wouldn't be surprised if there is.) Regarding magic enchament, you probably can't enchant them as ranged weapons, although I would allow ballista bolts to be enchanted as ammunition.
rironin 04-12-07, 11:55 AM	I believe the most recent book to give ballista and other siege weapons a look was Heroes of Battle. Don't have it in front of me, but there are rules for an operator in charge of aiming the weapon and a crew of people to operate the weapon. I believe that the larger and more skilled your crew, the faster and easier it is to operate. There were some magical siege weapons in the book as well - not sure if there were guidelines for trying to apply regular ranged weapon enhancements to siege weapons, but I would be very careful about doing this. I can't recall, but I do think there was a quick-loading enchantment for siege weapons in the book - the pricing may have been different than a rapid reload enchantment for a crossbow, since the weapon itself is so different.
draconic_swine 04-12-07, 12:01 PM	According to the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/wilderness.htm#siegeEngines), a ballista is "essentially a Huge heavy crossbow fixed in place: Ballista A ballista is essentially a Huge heavy crossbow fixed in place. Its size makes it hard for most creatures to aim it. Thus, a Medium creature takes a -4 penalty on attack rolls when using a ballista, and a Small creature takes a -6 penalty. It takes a creature smaller than Large two full-round actions to reload the ballista after firing. A ballista takes up a space 5 feet across. Whether or not "essentially" means that it is a Huge heavy crossbow and that a Titan who wanders by could pick it up and start using it without penalty, or that it functions like a Huge heavy crossbow but isn't really one, is up to interpretation. Either way, I'd suggest making a feat (Siege Expert or Ballista Expert or something along those lines) that allows the operator to apply any feats he has that can affect crossbows. The feat would probably require some requirements (5 ranks in Profession: Siege Engine Operator, perhaps?), nor would I allow all feats to apply (weapon focus and weapon specialization, and probably a number of the crossbow feats from the PHBII, for example). If you don't think a ballista is a Huge heavy crossbow I think this is a fair way to apply feats, and even if you do think a ballista is a Huge heavy crossbow I'm not sure how I feel about automatically applying your crossbow feats to a weapon you can't even hold. I'd allow the ballista and its ammunition to be enhanced as ranged weapons. According to the description in the SRD, having multiple operators doesn't reduce loading time, so they wouldn't affect Rapid Reload/Quick Loading.
Zaistars69 04-12-07, 12:22 PM	dude a flaming balista on a ship would be awsome. Think of it, you see an enemy ship in the distance, as you all get within range the ballista ammo on the opposing ship spring into flames. you're captain whispers oh, shi double hockey sticks.
xaqariah 04-12-07, 01:04 PM	dude a flaming balista on a ship would be awsome. Think of it, you see an enemy ship in the distance, as you all get within range the ballista ammo on the opposing ship spring into flames. you're captain whispers oh, shi double hockey sticks. Shrink Item Transmutation Level: Sor/Wiz 3 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: One touched object of up to 2 cu. ft./level Duration: One day/level; see text Saving Throw: Will negates (object) Spell Resistance: Yes (object) You are able to shrink one nonmagical item (if it is within the size limit) to 1/16 of its normal size in each dimension (to about 1/4,000 the original volume and mass). This change effectively reduces the object’s size by four categories. Optionally, you can also change its now shrunken composition to a clothlike one. Objects changed by a shrink item spell can be returned to normal composition and size merely by tossing them onto any solid surface or by a word of command from the original caster. Even a burning fire and its fuel can be shrunk by this spell. Restoring the shrunken object to its normal size and composition ends the spell. Shrink item can be made permanent with a permanency spell, in which case the affected object can be shrunk and expanded an indefinite number of times, but only by the original caster. ... at Level 5, you can "shrink" 10 cu feet of burnung oil into a nice fuzzy blanket... ... tie the "blanket" to the end of the ballista bolt... ... fire at enemy ship and watch it (and a portion of the exposed crew) burst into flames as the burning oil "magically" reappears... >_> stay away (very VERY far away) from dispells... :D
rironin 04-12-07, 01:22 PM	I'd allow the ballista and its ammunition to be enhanced as ranged weapons. According to the description in the SRD, having multiple operators doesn't reduce loading time, so they wouldn't affect Rapid Reload/Quick Loading.The DMG/SRD does provide simple rules for using siege weapons. As I mentioned, Heroes of Battle provides rules that augment and supersede the DMG rules if you want more detail and additional mechanics to govern siege engines. Heroes of Battle states that siege weapons can be magically enhanced just like other weapons, although an additional flat cost applies (sort of like masterwork only more - siege weapons themselves can and must be masterwork in order to be magically enhanced). There is also a Self-Loading magical property for siege weapons that obviates the need for Profession (siege engineer) checks and Strength checks normally required by the crew chief or the crew to load the weapon, and reduces the time needed to load the weapon by one full-round action, to a minimum of one full-round action. The fact that the Self-Loading property exists certainly rules out using a rapid-reloading crossbow feat or magical enhancement to make reloading faster. Having multiple operators does make reloading faster, as per the rules in Heroes of Battle.
Tommyboy 04-12-07, 04:20 PM	Thank you for the replies everyone, I will have to look into Hero's of Battle. Also since the penalty goes up by 2 per size category I think it should* just be a huge crossbow, how that would affect quick loading I'm not sure. * Just because something should work one way, rarely means it does.
antsterr 04-12-07, 06:43 PM	dude a flaming balista on a ship would be awsome. Think of it, you see an enemy ship in the distance, as you all get within range the ballista ammo on the opposing ship spring into flames. you're captain whispers oh, shi double hockey sticks. Very nice mental image until the captain whipsers "shill":P
Zaistars69 04-13-07, 11:30 AM	Very nice mental image until the captain whipsers "shill":P I don't get it, what's shill?
antsterr 04-13-07, 12:36 PM	Shi double hockey sticks. As is "H E double hockey sticks". hockey sticks look like a capitlal "L" so H E double hockey sticks is a short way of saying hell. Shi double hockey sticks just doesn't work.
Zaistars69 04-13-07, 12:57 PM	Shi double hockey sticks. As is "H E double hockey sticks". hockey sticks look like a capitlal "L" so H E double hockey sticks is a short way of saying hell. Shi double hockey sticks just doesn't work. I was wondering how long it would take someone to figure that one out. I bet most people read it and didn't think anything of it. hehe, gotta love it. Come on you know you love the SHILL!!!