bane and +5 weapons. [Archive] - Wizards Community

bane and +5 weapons. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
klode_me
02-05-05, 08:10 AM Bane make the weapon be like a +2 higher than it is against a specific creature, will a +5 bane aberrations longsword does that mean it is like a +7 longsword and gives 2d6 extra against aberattions?
PhaedrusXY
02-05-05, 11:19 AM Yes. It would be a +5 longsword most of the time. Against aberrations, it would be a +7 longsword and do an extra 2d6 damage.
Wolf72
02-05-05, 11:50 AM at that point it'd be an epic weapon too, no?

oooh wait a sec, +10 total enchantments ... *brain fart*,

nevermind :)
PhaedrusXY
02-05-05, 11:57 AM at that point it'd be an epic weapon too, no?Yes, it would count as an epic weapon and could beat damage reduction X/Epic. Also, temporary abilities like the +2 from a bane weapon can exceed the normal +10 enhancement limit.

You could have a +5 flaming, acidic, shock greatsword of aberation bane, and against an aberration it would have an effective +7 enhancement bonus and do +5d6 damage.
Wolf72
02-05-05, 12:02 PM wouldn't that give you a temporary epic weapon without really being an epic weapon for having a better than +6 enchantment right?

b/c a weapon/armor can have up to +10 enchantments (no more than a +5 for attk/dmg).
Nephlite
02-05-05, 03:09 PM wouldn't that give you a temporary epic weapon without really being an epic weapon for having a better than +6 enchantment right?

b/c a weapon/armor can have up to +10 enchantments (no more than a +5 for attk/dmg).
Yes i Guess its Epic like only against them though.
primemover003
02-05-05, 03:10 PM It wouldn't be an Epic weapon In my campaigns... loophole's like that are sheer munchkinism.
PhaedrusXY
02-05-05, 03:17 PM It wouldn't be an Epic weapon In my campaigns... loophole's like that are sheer munchkinism.Whatever dude. It's been like that since before DR/Epic existed. It's always helped to beat DR, since back when it was DR/+3 or whatever, and it is explicitely stated somewhere that it works like that. I think DMs nerfing things reflexively because they don't know the rules is more annoying than "munchkinism".
primemover003
02-05-05, 03:26 PM Just because a temporary boost in your plus makes the weapon +6 or above does not equal an Epic weapon. All Epic weapons have at least two prerequisites the most important of which is that the creator of the weapon have the Craft Epic Arms and Armor Feat.

If that's not the case, it's not Epic and will not bypass DR/Epic.
Zherog
02-05-05, 04:23 PM Except the only requirement to bypass DR of X/Epic is an enhancement bonus of +6 or greater. It doesn't have any other requirement including being crafted with Craft Epic Arms and Armor.
primemover003
02-05-05, 06:30 PM Well maybe you'd let a mere Bane weapon hurt Arch fiends and the like in your campaigns... But I'm not. Creatures that powerful shouldn't be worried about a weapon enhancement that'd make normal fiends cringe.

It's not a "reflexive" nerf of anything. It's based on a simple principle that Epic means Epic. The +6 or 7 of a Bane weapons enhancement will certainly help to increase your chance to hit a creatures' AC and deal a few more points of damage to get through that DR...

I won't argue that this isn't what the RAW states, but I will say that in a campaign where a creature with Epic DR figures prominantly it's not the way you should treat it... otherwise everyone will just grab a Bane weapon and go a-hunting.

Is that the way you want your campaign?
Ringrose
02-05-05, 10:26 PM The weapon does not actually become Epic. Its enhancement bonus is still +5 but has had its effective (note~not actual) enhancement bonus increased to +7. Also, under the SRD listing for Epic Damage reducton...it does not state that a weapon with a +6 or greater enhancement bonus bypasses the DR. It explains that an Epic weapon may bypass Epic DR...then it goes on to explain what a possible epic weapon might be...big difference...

A few very powerful monsters are vulnerable only to epic weapons; that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus. Such creatures’ natural weapons are also treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Bane: A bane weapon excels at attacking one type or subtype of creature. Against its designated foe, its effective enhancement bonus is +2 better than its normal enhancement bonus. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against the foe. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the bane quality upon their ammunition. To randomly determine a weapon’s designated foe, roll on the following table.

PREREQUISITES
In addition to the materials and tools required for nonepic magic items, any epic magic item requires at least two item creation feats: the epic and nonepic version.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
klode_me 02-05-05, 08:10 AM	Bane make the weapon be like a +2 higher than it is against a specific creature, will a +5 bane aberrations longsword does that mean it is like a +7 longsword and gives 2d6 extra against aberattions?
PhaedrusXY 02-05-05, 11:19 AM	Yes. It would be a +5 longsword most of the time. Against aberrations, it would be a +7 longsword and do an extra 2d6 damage.
Wolf72 02-05-05, 11:50 AM	at that point it'd be an epic weapon too, no? oooh wait a sec, +10 total enchantments ... brain fart, nevermind :)
PhaedrusXY 02-05-05, 11:57 AM	at that point it'd be an epic weapon too, no?Yes, it would count as an epic weapon and could beat damage reduction X/Epic. Also, temporary abilities like the +2 from a bane weapon can exceed the normal +10 enhancement limit. You could have a +5 flaming, acidic, shock greatsword of aberation bane, and against an aberration it would have an effective +7 enhancement bonus and do +5d6 damage.
Wolf72 02-05-05, 12:02 PM	wouldn't that give you a temporary epic weapon without really being an epic weapon for having a better than +6 enchantment right? b/c a weapon/armor can have up to +10 enchantments (no more than a +5 for attk/dmg).
Nephlite 02-05-05, 03:09 PM	wouldn't that give you a temporary epic weapon without really being an epic weapon for having a better than +6 enchantment right? b/c a weapon/armor can have up to +10 enchantments (no more than a +5 for attk/dmg). Yes i Guess its Epic like only against them though.
primemover003 02-05-05, 03:10 PM	It wouldn't be an Epic weapon In my campaigns... loophole's like that are sheer munchkinism.
PhaedrusXY 02-05-05, 03:17 PM	It wouldn't be an Epic weapon In my campaigns... loophole's like that are sheer munchkinism.Whatever dude. It's been like that since before DR/Epic existed. It's always helped to beat DR, since back when it was DR/+3 or whatever, and it is explicitely stated somewhere that it works like that. I think DMs nerfing things reflexively because they don't know the rules is more annoying than "munchkinism".
primemover003 02-05-05, 03:26 PM	Just because a temporary boost in your plus makes the weapon +6 or above does not equal an Epic weapon. All Epic weapons have at least two prerequisites the most important of which is that the creator of the weapon have the Craft Epic Arms and Armor Feat. If that's not the case, it's not Epic and will not bypass DR/Epic.
Zherog 02-05-05, 04:23 PM	Except the only requirement to bypass DR of X/Epic is an enhancement bonus of +6 or greater. It doesn't have any other requirement including being crafted with Craft Epic Arms and Armor.
primemover003 02-05-05, 06:30 PM	Well maybe you'd let a mere Bane weapon hurt Arch fiends and the like in your campaigns... But I'm not. Creatures that powerful shouldn't be worried about a weapon enhancement that'd make normal fiends cringe. It's not a "reflexive" nerf of anything. It's based on a simple principle that Epic means Epic. The +6 or 7 of a Bane weapons enhancement will certainly help to increase your chance to hit a creatures' AC and deal a few more points of damage to get through that DR... I won't argue that this isn't what the RAW states, but I will say that in a campaign where a creature with Epic DR figures prominantly it's not the way you should treat it... otherwise everyone will just grab a Bane weapon and go a-hunting. Is that the way you want your campaign?
Ringrose 02-05-05, 10:26 PM	The weapon does not actually become Epic. Its enhancement bonus is still +5 but has had its effective (note~not actual) enhancement bonus increased to +7. Also, under the SRD listing for Epic Damage reducton...it does not state that a weapon with a +6 or greater enhancement bonus bypasses the DR. It explains that an Epic weapon may bypass Epic DR...then it goes on to explain what a possible epic weapon might be...big difference... A few very powerful monsters are vulnerable only to epic weapons; that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus. Such creatures’ natural weapons are also treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Bane: A bane weapon excels at attacking one type or subtype of creature. Against its designated foe, its effective enhancement bonus is +2 better than its normal enhancement bonus. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against the foe. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the bane quality upon their ammunition. To randomly determine a weapon’s designated foe, roll on the following table. PREREQUISITES In addition to the materials and tools required for nonepic magic items, any epic magic item requires at least two item creation feats: the epic and nonepic version.