Bane and a themed campaign [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bane and a themed campaign [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DeadEye19
02-20-05, 04:34 AM I think you all noticed that at V3.5,Bane is now at +1 bonus cost.
However,at my campaign, the main that is thing going on is a demonic envansion, as the demon lord Orcus Tries to claim western Fearun as his own, using his minions and cultists.It has caught the attantion of other fiendish powers, and Graz'zat and some devils sends their forces- each for his own, ofcourse- to be a thorn at his side and see what they can gain.

This whole campaign is going epic soon, and those outsiders are going to be the main threat from now on.

The wizard of the party is a magical weapon crafter.He has created a long time ago an electric,Holy,Axiomatic bow(the last 2 was done in concert with a cleric),wich now stand on a bonus equal to +8(the bow is +3).He is a capable fighter(altough he is 17lvl wizard/2 lvl fighter) with rapid shot, zen archery and more.
He wants to add Bane(evil outsiders) to his bow or arrows.But if he will- he will make some 6d6+1d8+10 dmg at each shot... and thats even without spells... like Tenser's Transformation...
The other party member just dont do that much damage-the rouge, for example, can't sneak attack many of them(he is small,they tend to be huge\large). And I dont want to make him too powerful.
With bane, a +1 cost on the bow\arrow,he can get +2 ench bonus and 2d6 damage,worth +4,I know its only against outsiders but they are the main threat.
Any suggestions? I think about making it +1 +1d6 since its a themed campaign,the player thinks I weaken him while enemies get tougher, stronger and much more durable.
PLEASE HELP.
Vaelan
02-20-05, 08:16 AM The demons that matter have ways around this.

Let's say hello to our good friend Mr. Balor.

He is quite good at making non-evil, non-chaotic, non-demon friends due to his Dominate Monster SLA. That makes most of the enchantments on that bow fairly worthless.

If he does get caught in the rather nasty fire from that bow, he also has CL20 Greater Dispel Magic to suppress it for a few rounds.

And if Mr. Balor isn't one of the "special" demons, he probably deviates from the normal feat selection and took Quicken SLA: Greater Teleport instead of the rather silly Quicken SLA: Telekinesis listed in the MM. Quickened Greater Teleport + Full Attack against the bow(having been dispelled the previous round, perhaps?) would be an extremely appropriate, and effective, response.

HP/hardness of a +3 bow: 8/8. I think our good friend Mr. Balor can manage 16 damage on a single swing of his +1 vorpal sword, seeing as how he does 2d6+13 damage with each of his four attacks.

The rest of the demons are fairly irrelevant, since you stated the party is going epic and the rest are rather weak for an epic party to be fighting.

Honestly, if that bow is the biggest threat to those demons, your PCs are completely and utterly screwed if you play 24 INT demons like they should be (smart and mean).
tarkin
02-20-05, 09:36 AM I agree. Look at a real life invasion - the Mongols.

Their modus operandi was as follows.

Over power a bunch of smaller villages, tribes. Take their woman. Collect their men together and give them the speach:

"CONGRATULATIONS for joinging the Mongol Horde. As long as you fight, your women get to live and maintain their honor. You don't show up for role call tomorrow morning, they join my harem or I kill them."

Was very effective. It got to the point where smaller Hordes had only a single actual Mongol leader, with their women back with the main Horde.
DeadEye19
02-20-05, 04:31 PM The demons that matter have ways around this.
HP/hardness of a +3 bow: 8/8. I think our good friend Mr. Balor can manage 16 damage on a single swing of his +1 vorpal sword, seeing as how he does 2d6+13 damage with each of his four attacks.
(smart and mean).

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! If I will have the balor do such a thing, my player will kill me.He Crafted that bow,that weapon is a part of him.I don't want him to feel targeted for having this bow,weakend or such.I don't wanna want to make him stop crafting weapons-he will if it happens.
Plus I don't think a+1 ench. weapon can scratch a +3...
And we don't sunder weapons much in my campaign.
DeadEye19
02-20-05, 04:57 PM The demons that matter have ways around this.

Let's say hello to our good friend Mr. Balor.

(few moments later)
The rest of the demons are fairly irrelevant, since you stated the party is going epic and the rest are rather weak for an epic party to be fighting.

Honestly, if that bow is the biggest threat to those demons, your PCs are completely and utterly screwed if you play 24 INT demons like they should be (smart and mean).
Its not all balors,man.
I don't have a balor machinegun(well I do,I just don't use it) that fires them around.There are many capable demons out there,some are indeed lesser minions but some are very strong without CR 20 (SorrowSworn demon,MM3 for instance).
Plus there is a thingy called HD advancment.They can be tough enough to cause the players trouble,or more so(at least they will cover me while I relaod
my Balor MachineGun).

For example, a level ago, they tried to lure in a squad of demons to an abondend town. The demons, comanded by the balor, allowed themselves to take the bate since they estimated the situatin was more than the charecters can chew. They attacked by wave after wave of many weaker demons(the intelegent ones wouldn't risk themselves for no good reason),weakening them,depliting their resources(th place is too small for a big rush anyway).Then came a Balor, his Marilith LT.,and 2 herzu to slow them down.2 npcs went down during that battle(Soldiers of the church,a cleric and an archer).The rouge resisted an implosion spell and fought with the npc paladin, flanking and taking down the marlith. The wizard shot his arrows behind a parismatic wall-not an easy thing to dispel, even for MR. Balor. He did considarable damage to the Balor, taking him out... with a bang.
A npc fighter couldn't hold, and the paladin coulden't get herself of the balor's grab with his whip, holding her against his flames... The PC rouge,from all of the PCs , missed his REFLEX save by 1... But MR. Balor wouldn't kill 5 people without his little swarming magots.
ff6shadow
02-20-05, 05:00 PM Well, if you don't want to destroy the bow, there is always the option of hitting the wizard with the +1 vorpal sword. Tends to be failry effective.
DeadEye19
02-20-05, 05:01 PM but anyway,should I leave bane as +1?
I am sure it was reduced from +2 to +1,in a thought that a DND campaign has many mosters types along the way.
What do you think?
BTW the dominating creatures(with or without magic) is a good one.I will keep that in mined. So far I had frost giants fighting against the PCs as an example of non-demons,they are part of the cult- but all those cultist are CE,so the bow is still effective.
Vaelan
02-20-05, 05:06 PM FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! If I will have the balor do such a thing, my player will kill me.He Crafted that bow,that weapon is a part of him.

That's not really fair to the balor. Why would the balor care about how the person he's trying to kill feels about it?

I don't want him to feel targeted for having this bow,weakend or such.

If his bow is really as much of a problem as your originial post implies, then he should be targetted for having the bow. It is a threat and balors are extremely intelligent beings, fully capable of recognizing a threat, then realizing and executing the best way to negate it.

Plus I don't think a+1 ench. weapon can scratch a +3...

That rule was dropped in 3.5. Since you specifically mentioned that you are playing 3.5 when referencing the Bane property, that bow is quite vulnerable.

Both as a DM and a player, I disapprove of DMs who play their monsters poorly or stupidly on purpose just to spare a few feelings that shouldn't even be a factor. You are only cheapening the accomplishments of your players, even if they don't realize it.
Vaelan
02-20-05, 05:26 PM Its not all balors,man.

They're going epic and messing around with Demon Lords. It may not be all balors, but there will be balors. And I'm sure any other demon worth fighting has their own ways of dealing with pesky little bows as well. Fodder is completely irrelevant. No one expects them to do much of anything but buy time and maybe expend some resources.

The wizard shot his arrows behind a parismatic wall-not an easy thing to dispel, even for MR. Balor.

Why would the Balor even bother dispelling it? If the Wizard was shooting from behind the wall without the 50% miss chance from Total Concealment(the Wizard can't see through the wall as it is opaque), then the Prismatic Wall wouldn't be blocking Greater Teleport. And the balor can always just fly over it.

Bane is just fine how it is. It is your monster's strategies that need work. If it weren't Bane utterly destroying all of the demons, it would just be something else.
DeadEye19
02-21-05, 03:11 AM Bane is just fine how it is. It is your monster's strategies that need work. If it weren't Bane utterly destroying all of the demons, it would just be something else.
Look, I can have the balor and maralith breaking all the characters gear in 3 rounds.But I have a problem-I didn't do such thing before.The player will see this as a direct answer to his weapon.
But anyway, what's with it? What does a +5 vorpal sword that cost 100k gs and took some half a year to create,if in one attack a monster can take it out?thats why I don't use it much.

However, you are right about strategies.I should have the intelegent monsters far more mobile,and have them using much more dispels.
Any other ideas?
DeadEye19
02-21-05, 03:19 AM One more thing. Let's say a balor drops a nasty surprise on the PCs.
In a swing of his sword, the composite longbow is cut in half.
What next? Say they survive, are there any means of repairing it?
Are there any means to avoid such things or protect their gear in the future, aside for not using it?
I don't see any.So their gear is useless.What good is an epic charecter without magical gear?

Or am I wrong?I don't know the breaking things rules that well,PLEASE REPLY.
PhaedrusXY
02-21-05, 04:02 AM Orcus is the demon lord of Undead. Throw lots of undead at them, and non-demonic necromancers who worship Orcus. The other characters have the option of getting Bane on their weapons, too. And for that matter, the demons have the option of getting it on their weapons. :devil: :evillaugh There is also a spell called Bladebane that can temporarily turn a weapon into a Bane weapon of your choice. It's in the Unapproachable East book.

But really... why are you worried about a high level wizard using a bow? That's the real question here, in my opinion. If the worst thing you have to worry about from him is shooting stuff with his bow, then you don't have much to worry about. Be glad I'm not playing the wizard in your game. :P

The only thing I know of that gets around the problem of your weapon being sundered is some strange metal called Aurorium (or something). A weapon made of that liquifies and repairs itself on the round following it being sundered. I don't remember what book it's in. I'd also allow a Wish to repair a broken magic item, but that's strictly a DM call.
Ra-Tiel
02-21-05, 04:49 AM Hello.

Why must it always be sunder? Let the Balor disarm the wizard (I would really like to see the wizard's face :evillaugh) and teleport away with it. Or have him throw it through a portal or something similar. Another alternative is have the Balor do the tango with the wizard (read: grapple him and set his body flames to *on*).

And don't forget, the demons have RESOURCES! Have you ever seen a Balor with blur, displacement, mirror image, stoneskin, entropic shield or protection from arrows? Some small potions could do the trick for him. And true seeing shouldn't be that much of a problem with his cl20 greater dispel magic.

Always remember: what the PCs can do, the NPCs can also do. Give the Balor some levels of Mortal Hunter or Blackguard. Have a succubus with the Fiend of Corrpution PrC from FiendFolio infiltrate the party and before they confront mr. Balor, have her sabotage the bow and the other gear of the party. Or give the Balor a humanoid bane weapon. The Arms and Equipment Guide also has some alternative Balor swords in it. You might want to check them out.

The possibilities are endless.

Just my :twocents:
_Ra-Tiel.
DeadEye19
02-21-05, 12:14 PM Orcus is the demon lord of Undead. Throw lots of undead at them, and non-demonic necromancers who worship Orcus. The other characters have the option of getting Bane on their weapons, too. And for that matter, the demons have the option of getting it on their weapons. :devil: :evillaugh
There has many non-demon minions. Keep in mind most cultists are CE.Undeads? Yes,there are many, too,but the rogue isn't as useful against them as well,btw.

But really... why are you worried about a high level wizard using a bow? That's the real question here, in my opinion. If the worst thing you have to worry about from him is shooting stuff with his bow, then you don't have much to worry about. Be glad I'm not playing the wizard in your game. :P

Don't be so sure.Don't get me wrong, he is a great spell caster.He sure knows what he is doing alright.However, with the bow, he is still powerful even when his(high level) spells run out,and sanctified spells of all levels not to be taken lightly, whats with the spell focus(Good)+2 to DC and spell penetration(normal,not graeter). He is a very capable caster.

I just want to balance the potential to do damage within the party.
I sure don't want the rogue to fade away.
Vhob The Enchanter
02-21-05, 01:23 PM Slightly off subject but Bane is just to broad of a thing especially for an evil character. I don't get how they can designate "Animals" as one part and then break down humanoids into eleven groups. When off the top of my head I can think of three different types of "Animals" Canines, Reptiles, and birds which would be just as broad of a jump as going from a Dwarf to a Human. It's the main reason why I don't become a Ranger because the DMs I run under never NEVER have the same type of monsters where it would be even remotely useful to take.

As far as the subject I too have run into the difficult situation of the BBEG having to not use the full tactics open to him or risk ruining the campaign. One time I remember that I as a DM walked the line very closely by running them against a person who used poisens as their main weapon. They had to discover who it was and deal with the fact that it could be a Noble doing the crimes and that they couldn't go around pointing fingers without making to many people angry. In the end most of them got poisened and the Princess was the one doing it all. She rolled a 20 on her bluff check which had a super high mod and even with not wanting to believe her they did, so they believed when she said she didn't remember a thing. It was the ultimate revenge for me because they always try to use outside knowledge about things inside the game and this time they knew she was guilty but their was nothing the could do about it.

I would do the disarm thing though. Take the weapon and just have the Balor put it away in a quiver of elhonna or something. This way the Wizard doesn't have it till the battle is over and maybe not even then if you have a fake put in its place. One that appears to do all of what his normal bow does but doesn't. Then have him roll INT checks or Spellcraft Checks to notice if his bow is not behaving right. Since it is highly unlikely that he will cast a Detect Magic spell on it to make sure it has all the same properties of his old one.
DeadEye19
02-21-05, 05:41 PM I would do the disarm thing though. Take the weapon and just have the Balor put it away in a quiver of elhonna or something. This way the Wizard doesn't have it till the battle is over and maybe not even then if you have a fake put in its place. One that appears to do all of what his normal bow does but doesn't. Then have him roll INT checks or Spellcraft Checks to notice if his bow is not behaving right. Since it is highly unlikely that he will cast a Detect Magic spell on it to make sure it has all the same properties of his old one.
Nice idea.This way it will not permanently disable the weapon,and won't make them all afraid to hold magic items-I mean,a magical sword of +8 on the chart isn't a one-use object.It doesn't sound like a balor though.Maybe a small pest stealing it and running away with it with Protection From Spells, would be luring them into a trap...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DeadEye19 02-20-05, 04:34 AM	I think you all noticed that at V3.5,Bane is now at +1 bonus cost. However,at my campaign, the main that is thing going on is a demonic envansion, as the demon lord Orcus Tries to claim western Fearun as his own, using his minions and cultists.It has caught the attantion of other fiendish powers, and Graz'zat and some devils sends their forces- each for his own, ofcourse- to be a thorn at his side and see what they can gain. This whole campaign is going epic soon, and those outsiders are going to be the main threat from now on. The wizard of the party is a magical weapon crafter.He has created a long time ago an electric,Holy,Axiomatic bow(the last 2 was done in concert with a cleric),wich now stand on a bonus equal to +8(the bow is +3).He is a capable fighter(altough he is 17lvl wizard/2 lvl fighter) with rapid shot, zen archery and more. He wants to add Bane(evil outsiders) to his bow or arrows.But if he will- he will make some 6d6+1d8+10 dmg at each shot... and thats even without spells... like Tenser's Transformation... The other party member just dont do that much damage-the rouge, for example, can't sneak attack many of them(he is small,they tend to be huge\large). And I dont want to make him too powerful. With bane, a +1 cost on the bow\arrow,he can get +2 ench bonus and 2d6 damage,worth +4,I know its only against outsiders but they are the main threat. Any suggestions? I think about making it +1 +1d6 since its a themed campaign,the player thinks I weaken him while enemies get tougher, stronger and much more durable. PLEASE HELP.
Vaelan 02-20-05, 08:16 AM	The demons that matter have ways around this. Let's say hello to our good friend Mr. Balor. He is quite good at making non-evil, non-chaotic, non-demon friends due to his Dominate Monster SLA. That makes most of the enchantments on that bow fairly worthless. If he does get caught in the rather nasty fire from that bow, he also has CL20 Greater Dispel Magic to suppress it for a few rounds. And if Mr. Balor isn't one of the "special" demons, he probably deviates from the normal feat selection and took Quicken SLA: Greater Teleport instead of the rather silly Quicken SLA: Telekinesis listed in the MM. Quickened Greater Teleport + Full Attack against the bow(having been dispelled the previous round, perhaps?) would be an extremely appropriate, and effective, response. HP/hardness of a +3 bow: 8/8. I think our good friend Mr. Balor can manage 16 damage on a single swing of his +1 vorpal sword, seeing as how he does 2d6+13 damage with each of his four attacks. The rest of the demons are fairly irrelevant, since you stated the party is going epic and the rest are rather weak for an epic party to be fighting. Honestly, if that bow is the biggest threat to those demons, your PCs are completely and utterly screwed if you play 24 INT demons like they should be (smart and mean).
tarkin 02-20-05, 09:36 AM	I agree. Look at a real life invasion - the Mongols. Their modus operandi was as follows. Over power a bunch of smaller villages, tribes. Take their woman. Collect their men together and give them the speach: "CONGRATULATIONS for joinging the Mongol Horde. As long as you fight, your women get to live and maintain their honor. You don't show up for role call tomorrow morning, they join my harem or I kill them." Was very effective. It got to the point where smaller Hordes had only a single actual Mongol leader, with their women back with the main Horde.
DeadEye19 02-20-05, 04:31 PM	The demons that matter have ways around this. HP/hardness of a +3 bow: 8/8. I think our good friend Mr. Balor can manage 16 damage on a single swing of his +1 vorpal sword, seeing as how he does 2d6+13 damage with each of his four attacks. (smart and mean). FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! If I will have the balor do such a thing, my player will kill me.He Crafted that bow,that weapon is a part of him.I don't want him to feel targeted for having this bow,weakend or such.I don't wanna want to make him stop crafting weapons-he will if it happens. Plus I don't think a+1 ench. weapon can scratch a +3... And we don't sunder weapons much in my campaign.
DeadEye19 02-20-05, 04:57 PM	The demons that matter have ways around this. Let's say hello to our good friend Mr. Balor. (few moments later) The rest of the demons are fairly irrelevant, since you stated the party is going epic and the rest are rather weak for an epic party to be fighting. Honestly, if that bow is the biggest threat to those demons, your PCs are completely and utterly screwed if you play 24 INT demons like they should be (smart and mean). Its not all balors,man. I don't have a balor machinegun(well I do,I just don't use it) that fires them around.There are many capable demons out there,some are indeed lesser minions but some are very strong without CR 20 (SorrowSworn demon,MM3 for instance). Plus there is a thingy called HD advancment.They can be tough enough to cause the players trouble,or more so(at least they will cover me while I relaod my Balor MachineGun). For example, a level ago, they tried to lure in a squad of demons to an abondend town. The demons, comanded by the balor, allowed themselves to take the bate since they estimated the situatin was more than the charecters can chew. They attacked by wave after wave of many weaker demons(the intelegent ones wouldn't risk themselves for no good reason),weakening them,depliting their resources(th place is too small for a big rush anyway).Then came a Balor, his Marilith LT.,and 2 herzu to slow them down.2 npcs went down during that battle(Soldiers of the church,a cleric and an archer).The rouge resisted an implosion spell and fought with the npc paladin, flanking and taking down the marlith. The wizard shot his arrows behind a parismatic wall-not an easy thing to dispel, even for MR. Balor. He did considarable damage to the Balor, taking him out... with a bang. A npc fighter couldn't hold, and the paladin coulden't get herself of the balor's grab with his whip, holding her against his flames... The PC rouge,from all of the PCs , missed his REFLEX save by 1... But MR. Balor wouldn't kill 5 people without his little swarming magots.
ff6shadow 02-20-05, 05:00 PM	Well, if you don't want to destroy the bow, there is always the option of hitting the wizard with the +1 vorpal sword. Tends to be failry effective.
DeadEye19 02-20-05, 05:01 PM	but anyway,should I leave bane as +1? I am sure it was reduced from +2 to +1,in a thought that a DND campaign has many mosters types along the way. What do you think? BTW the dominating creatures(with or without magic) is a good one.I will keep that in mined. So far I had frost giants fighting against the PCs as an example of non-demons,they are part of the cult- but all those cultist are CE,so the bow is still effective.
Vaelan 02-20-05, 05:06 PM	FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! If I will have the balor do such a thing, my player will kill me.He Crafted that bow,that weapon is a part of him. That's not really fair to the balor. Why would the balor care about how the person he's trying to kill feels about it? I don't want him to feel targeted for having this bow,weakend or such. If his bow is really as much of a problem as your originial post implies, then he should be targetted for having the bow. It is a threat and balors are extremely intelligent beings, fully capable of recognizing a threat, then realizing and executing the best way to negate it. Plus I don't think a+1 ench. weapon can scratch a +3... That rule was dropped in 3.5. Since you specifically mentioned that you are playing 3.5 when referencing the Bane property, that bow is quite vulnerable. Both as a DM and a player, I disapprove of DMs who play their monsters poorly or stupidly on purpose just to spare a few feelings that shouldn't even be a factor. You are only cheapening the accomplishments of your players, even if they don't realize it.
Vaelan 02-20-05, 05:26 PM	Its not all balors,man. They're going epic and messing around with Demon Lords. It may not be all balors, but there will be balors. And I'm sure any other demon worth fighting has their own ways of dealing with pesky little bows as well. Fodder is completely irrelevant. No one expects them to do much of anything but buy time and maybe expend some resources. The wizard shot his arrows behind a parismatic wall-not an easy thing to dispel, even for MR. Balor. Why would the Balor even bother dispelling it? If the Wizard was shooting from behind the wall without the 50% miss chance from Total Concealment(the Wizard can't see through the wall as it is opaque), then the Prismatic Wall wouldn't be blocking Greater Teleport. And the balor can always just fly over it. Bane is just fine how it is. It is your monster's strategies that need work. If it weren't Bane utterly destroying all of the demons, it would just be something else.
DeadEye19 02-21-05, 03:11 AM	Bane is just fine how it is. It is your monster's strategies that need work. If it weren't Bane utterly destroying all of the demons, it would just be something else. Look, I can have the balor and maralith breaking all the characters gear in 3 rounds.But I have a problem-I didn't do such thing before.The player will see this as a direct answer to his weapon. But anyway, what's with it? What does a +5 vorpal sword that cost 100k gs and took some half a year to create,if in one attack a monster can take it out?thats why I don't use it much. However, you are right about strategies.I should have the intelegent monsters far more mobile,and have them using much more dispels. Any other ideas?
DeadEye19 02-21-05, 03:19 AM	One more thing. Let's say a balor drops a nasty surprise on the PCs. In a swing of his sword, the composite longbow is cut in half. What next? Say they survive, are there any means of repairing it? Are there any means to avoid such things or protect their gear in the future, aside for not using it? I don't see any.So their gear is useless.What good is an epic charecter without magical gear? Or am I wrong?I don't know the breaking things rules that well,PLEASE REPLY.
PhaedrusXY 02-21-05, 04:02 AM	Orcus is the demon lord of Undead. Throw lots of undead at them, and non-demonic necromancers who worship Orcus. The other characters have the option of getting Bane on their weapons, too. And for that matter, the demons have the option of getting it on their weapons. :devil: :evillaugh There is also a spell called Bladebane that can temporarily turn a weapon into a Bane weapon of your choice. It's in the Unapproachable East book. But really... why are you worried about a high level wizard using a bow? That's the real question here, in my opinion. If the worst thing you have to worry about from him is shooting stuff with his bow, then you don't have much to worry about. Be glad I'm not playing the wizard in your game. :P The only thing I know of that gets around the problem of your weapon being sundered is some strange metal called Aurorium (or something). A weapon made of that liquifies and repairs itself on the round following it being sundered. I don't remember what book it's in. I'd also allow a Wish to repair a broken magic item, but that's strictly a DM call.
Ra-Tiel 02-21-05, 04:49 AM	Hello. Why must it always be sunder? Let the Balor disarm the wizard (I would really like to see the wizard's face :evillaugh) and teleport away with it. Or have him throw it through a portal or something similar. Another alternative is have the Balor do the tango with the wizard (read: grapple him and set his body flames to on). And don't forget, the demons have RESOURCES! Have you ever seen a Balor with blur, displacement, mirror image, stoneskin, entropic shield or protection from arrows? Some small potions could do the trick for him. And true seeing shouldn't be that much of a problem with his cl20 greater dispel magic. Always remember: what the PCs can do, the NPCs can also do. Give the Balor some levels of Mortal Hunter or Blackguard. Have a succubus with the Fiend of Corrpution PrC from FiendFolio infiltrate the party and before they confront mr. Balor, have her sabotage the bow and the other gear of the party. Or give the Balor a humanoid bane weapon. The Arms and Equipment Guide also has some alternative Balor swords in it. You might want to check them out. The possibilities are endless. Just my :twocents: _Ra-Tiel.
DeadEye19 02-21-05, 12:14 PM	Orcus is the demon lord of Undead. Throw lots of undead at them, and non-demonic necromancers who worship Orcus. The other characters have the option of getting Bane on their weapons, too. And for that matter, the demons have the option of getting it on their weapons. :devil: :evillaugh There has many non-demon minions. Keep in mind most cultists are CE.Undeads? Yes,there are many, too,but the rogue isn't as useful against them as well,btw. But really... why are you worried about a high level wizard using a bow? That's the real question here, in my opinion. If the worst thing you have to worry about from him is shooting stuff with his bow, then you don't have much to worry about. Be glad I'm not playing the wizard in your game. :P Don't be so sure.Don't get me wrong, he is a great spell caster.He sure knows what he is doing alright.However, with the bow, he is still powerful even when his(high level) spells run out,and sanctified spells of all levels not to be taken lightly, whats with the spell focus(Good)+2 to DC and spell penetration(normal,not graeter). He is a very capable caster. I just want to balance the potential to do damage within the party. I sure don't want the rogue to fade away.
Vhob The Enchanter 02-21-05, 01:23 PM	Slightly off subject but Bane is just to broad of a thing especially for an evil character. I don't get how they can designate "Animals" as one part and then break down humanoids into eleven groups. When off the top of my head I can think of three different types of "Animals" Canines, Reptiles, and birds which would be just as broad of a jump as going from a Dwarf to a Human. It's the main reason why I don't become a Ranger because the DMs I run under never NEVER have the same type of monsters where it would be even remotely useful to take. As far as the subject I too have run into the difficult situation of the BBEG having to not use the full tactics open to him or risk ruining the campaign. One time I remember that I as a DM walked the line very closely by running them against a person who used poisens as their main weapon. They had to discover who it was and deal with the fact that it could be a Noble doing the crimes and that they couldn't go around pointing fingers without making to many people angry. In the end most of them got poisened and the Princess was the one doing it all. She rolled a 20 on her bluff check which had a super high mod and even with not wanting to believe her they did, so they believed when she said she didn't remember a thing. It was the ultimate revenge for me because they always try to use outside knowledge about things inside the game and this time they knew she was guilty but their was nothing the could do about it. I would do the disarm thing though. Take the weapon and just have the Balor put it away in a quiver of elhonna or something. This way the Wizard doesn't have it till the battle is over and maybe not even then if you have a fake put in its place. One that appears to do all of what his normal bow does but doesn't. Then have him roll INT checks or Spellcraft Checks to notice if his bow is not behaving right. Since it is highly unlikely that he will cast a Detect Magic spell on it to make sure it has all the same properties of his old one.
DeadEye19 02-21-05, 05:41 PM	I would do the disarm thing though. Take the weapon and just have the Balor put it away in a quiver of elhonna or something. This way the Wizard doesn't have it till the battle is over and maybe not even then if you have a fake put in its place. One that appears to do all of what his normal bow does but doesn't. Then have him roll INT checks or Spellcraft Checks to notice if his bow is not behaving right. Since it is highly unlikely that he will cast a Detect Magic spell on it to make sure it has all the same properties of his old one. Nice idea.This way it will not permanently disable the weapon,and won't make them all afraid to hold magic items-I mean,a magical sword of +8 on the chart isn't a one-use object.It doesn't sound like a balor though.Maybe a small pest stealing it and running away with it with Protection From Spells, would be luring them into a trap...