Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Belldandy 01-14-06, 05:44 PM	The question is for a DEMON hunter an outsider of CE alignement. If you have a +4 longsword of bane outsider (evil) and bane outsider (chaotic) Against a demon (both types) does the effect happen twice or only once? eg: 1. +4 longsword bane (either) being a +6 longsword +2d6 damage 2. +4 longsword bane (chaotic and evil) being a +8 longsword +4d6 damage I would GUESS it's the latter, and better, and only outsiders suffer this penalty. But you DO need the right weapon of course. Hmm and you can stick holy on that too!? :) +4 longsword bane (chaotic and evil) and holy being a +8 longsword +6d6 damage anyhelp!? Thanks!
Leach 01-14-06, 05:53 PM	Bonuses with the same name don't stack. Since those are both "bane" bonuses, I'm guessing that they don't. (Bane and Holy should, though)
KelanenPrinceofSwords 01-14-06, 05:57 PM	There is no prohibition against stacking bane effects, but there is a prohibition against stacking enhancement bonuses. Based on this, I'd say the +2 bonus to the weapon's enhancement bonus would not stack, but the additional damage would. Interesting q though, I'll be interested to see what others think.
Belldandy 01-14-06, 06:05 PM	Bonuses with the same name don't stack. Since those are both "bane" bonuses, I'm guessing that they don't. (Bane and Holy should, though) I'll admit I'd not remembered that. Still both replies have been useful and different! Keep em coming! And thanks for the fast replies! ;) edit: Though thinking of it, do the bane enchancements not stakc with the normal enchancements? (Suppose it depends on if it is a 'bane' enchancement or a 'bane type' enchancement)
was_fired 01-14-06, 08:36 PM	As far as I am aware they do not stack. The best source for this ruling can be found in the entry for rules on a ranger's favored enemy.
RavenDrake 01-14-06, 10:23 PM	First of all, it increses the weapons Enhancement bonus...it dosen't provide a bonus to the enhancement bonus... Quoteing from the SRD, bolded for emphasis: A bane weapon excels at attacking one type or subtype of creature. Against its designated foe, its effective enhancement bonus is +2 better than its normal enhancement bonus. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against the foe. So, no matter how many bane effects actually enhance a specific weapon, it will never get more than an effective +2 enhancement bonus increase, no matter how many facets of it's bane effects the enemy meets. Howerver, I do agree that each bane effect would add it's bonus damage for each type that the enemy qualifies for. But, that's just my interpretation.
Belldandy 01-15-06, 02:35 PM	Bring Up My Post :D
pres_man 01-15-06, 02:55 PM	Damage from bane and from holy are unnamed bonuses to damage, thus they should stack (including multiple banes). As for the enhancement bonus stacking, after reading it I would have to say it only increases +2 total, they don't stack. This is using a strict reading of it. Don't forget to add this on the damage end though. So I would say it would look like +4 longsword bane (chaotic and evil) and holy -> against demon -> +6 longsword (+6 + 6d6 damage) If you really want a demon hunter, don't forget to make it cold iron as well.
Gilfalas_Elaandrin 01-15-06, 05:02 PM	Just look at any of the weapons in the supplements or in the Deities of Faerun book for example. Multiple examples of weapons with several bane types on the same weapon. No reason I can see why a holy, evil outsider bane, chaotic outsider bane weapons would not be doing 6D6 bonus damage on Demons. Though the stacking of the effective enhancement bonus from each of the bane sources is murky IMO. I know that MY ref rules in favor of them stacking from each source. Your mileage may vary. Personally I would say the enhancement increase would NOT stack but the bonus dice of damage sure would.
Zherog 01-15-06, 08:40 PM	I would allow them to stack, but I believe by RAW your +4 evil outsider bane chaotic outsider bane longsword would attack a demon with a +6 enhancement bonus and do a bonus 4d6 damage.
Eagle of the Star 01-15-06, 09:56 PM	First of all, it increses the weapons Enhancement bonus...it dosen't provide a bonus to the enhancement bonus... Quoteing from the SRD, bolded for emphasis: A bane weapon excels at attacking one type or subtype of creature. Against its designated foe, its effective enhancement bonus is +2 better than its normal enhancement bonus. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against the foe. So, no matter how many bane effects actually enhance a specific weapon, it will never get more than an effective +2 enhancement bonus increase, no matter how many facets of it's bane effects the enemy meets. Howerver, I do agree that each bane effect would add it's bonus damage for each type that the enemy qualifies for. But, that's just my interpretation. I don't buy it. Bonuses of the same type don't stack, sure, but in this case both the bonus to the enhancement bonus and the bonus dice are unnamed bonuses, which always stack. The only way that argument could work is if the rules said bane added a foo bonus to the effective enhancement bonus. As far as I am aware they do not stack. The best source for this ruling can be found in the entry for rules on a ranger's favored enemy. This is worth looking into. It sounds as if you are arguing that even though the outsider is both evil and chaotic, it is still only the "designated foe" for purposes of bane once -- thus making the situation the same as if a ranger had picked both evil outsiders and chaotic outsiders as his favored enemy. On the other hand, the fact that the Players Handbooks says specifically that in the case of a ranger who picks overlapping favored enemy categories the bonus does not stack, implies that this is an special rule for favored enemy and not a general rule that should be applied to bane, or other foe-specific effects. So yeah, I say a +1 evil-outsider bane, chaoitc-outsider bane longsword has an enhancement bonus of +5 and does +4d6 damage against chaotic evil outsiders. (YMMV of course). It really isn't game breaking, and too specialized to be of value in most campaigns. If you really wanted to kill evil outsiders though, you are much better off spending the cash on an evil-outsider bane blind armor item (from Arms & Equipment Guide). That ability is just plain broken (especially for the rogue).
Eagle of the Star 01-15-06, 10:02 PM	First of all, it increses the weapons Enhancement bonus...it dosen't provide a bonus to the enhancement bonus... Quoteing from the SRD, bolded for emphasis: A bane weapon excels at attacking one type or subtype of creature. Against its designated foe, its effective enhancement bonus is +2 better than its normal enhancement bonus. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against the foe. So, no matter how many bane effects actually enhance a specific weapon, it will never get more than an effective +2 enhancement bonus increase, no matter how many facets of it's bane effects the enemy meets. Howerver, I do agree that each bane effect would add it's bonus damage for each type that the enemy qualifies for. But, that's just my interpretation. I don't buy it. Bonuses of the same type don't stack, sure, but in this case both the bonus to the enhancement bonus and the bonus dice are unnamed bonuses, which always stack. The only way that argument could work is if the rules said bane added a "foo" bonus to the effective enhancement bonus, and they don't. As far as I am aware they do not stack. The best source for this ruling can be found in the entry for rules on a ranger's favored enemy. This is worth looking into. It sounds as if you are arguing that even though the outsider is both evil and chaotic, it is still only the "designated foe" for purposes of bane once -- thus making the situation the same as if a ranger had picked both evil outsiders and chaotic outsiders as his favored enemy. On the other hand, the fact that the Players Handbooks says specifically that in the case of a ranger who picks overlapping favored enemy categories the bonus does not stack, implies that this is an special rule for favored enemy and not a general rule that should be applied to bane, or other foe-specific effects. So yeah, I say a +1 evil-outsider bane, chaoitc-outsider bane longsword has an enhancement bonus of +5 and does +4d6 damage against chaotic evil outsiders. Furthermore a +1 evil-outsider bane, chaoitic outsider bane, native outsider bane longsword is +7 and does +6d6 against a tiefling who happens to be chaotic evil. (c.f. page 17 of the 3.5 FAQ). It really isn't game breaking, and too specialized to be of value in most campaigns. If you really wanted to kill evil outsiders though, you are much better off spending the cash on an evil-outsider bane blind armor item (from Arms & Equipment Guide). That ability is just plain broken (especially for the rogue).[/QUOTE]
jaelis 01-15-06, 10:26 PM	I don't buy it. Bonuses of the same type don't stack, sure, but in this case both the bonus to the enhancement bonus and the bonus dice are unnamed bonuses, which always stack. The only way that argument could work is if the rules said bane added a "foo" bonus to the effective enhancement bonus, and they don't. But it says it gets a bonus +2 better that the normal bonus. It doesn't say something like "an additional +2 bonus". I would read "normal" bonus as the bonus you get against a non-bane target. Thus your +1 bane evil bane chaotic weapon normally has a +1 bonus. Against a demon, both bane effects cause the bonus to increase to +3, but that is all. And don't forget axiomatic!
Gilfalas_Elaandrin 01-15-06, 10:45 PM	Thus your +1 bane evil bane chaotic weapon normally has a +1 bonus. Against a demon, both bane effects cause the bonus to increase to +3, but that is all. And don't forget axiomatic! Evil Outsider Bane, Chaotic Outsider Bane, Axiomatic, Holy, Energy Aura, +1. The best bang for your buck if you wanna kill demons. Demons will get hit for +3 to hit and +9D6+3 Bonus damage. Devils, Daemons & Chaotic Evil anything will get hit for +3 Hit and +5d6+3 bonus damage. Chaotic anything or Evil anything will get hit for +3 Hit and +4d6+3 bonus damage. If the targets have any elemental weaknesses you can switch the aura to that element (assuming you know) as a free action once a round and double that up too. Course you drop 200,000 gold on the one weapon but against Chaotic Evil Outsiders you'll shred em. Make it of Starmetal and anything not of the Prime Material Plane takes ANOTHER 1d6 of damage as well if your on the Prime. This assumes FR as the setting btw. :P But to answer the original question of the post: If you have a +4 longsword of bane outsider (evil) and bane outsider (chaotic) Against a demon (both types) does the effect happen twice or only once? I would think the answer is: Demons (Chaotic Evil) +6 to hit & +4d6+6 Damage. Devils (Lawful Evil) +6 to hit & +2d6+6 Damage Daemons (Neutral)+6 to hit & +2d6+6 Damage Probably your best bet for an 'evil outsider' hunting weapon would be: +5, Evil Outsider Bane, Chaotic Outsider Bane, Lawful Outsider Bane, Holy weapon. +7 to hit and 6d6+7 damage on Demons and Devils. +7 to hit and 4d6+7 on Daemons (Nycaloths). Throw in a Sacred Scabbard from Complete Warrior and watch the evil outsiders wither. And if your a Knight of the Chalice....OUCH.
Belldandy 01-16-06, 04:02 AM	Thanks again for replies. I want and need holy but... difficult to add to Souldrinker I'd think (ELH) And my UMD ain't 30, so I'd lose a level! Oh I AM Evil! lol! :D Where would I ask for an official ruling? (And I gotta go check those items in the A&E - Thanks!)