Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wookie1120 07-14-05, 08:07 PM	Can you put two different banes on one weapon? See nothing saying you can't, but I also see nothing saying you can. Thoughts?
BloodGod 07-14-05, 08:12 PM	As far as I know, yes you can. Thus, a Chaotic Outsider and Evil Outsider Bane would tear up demons. ;) -BG
Wookie1120 07-14-05, 08:39 PM	that's about what I thought, but I wanted to see if anyone had seen an official verdict anywhere.
Tigger062077 07-14-05, 08:42 PM	oooh....now this could get fun! Can't wait to play my next hack & slash fighter.... (is there any other kind?)
aelryinth 07-14-05, 08:53 PM	There was a module posted on the WoTC site about fallen heroes and their loot in a tower in hell. One of the magic items was an Intelligent, Dancing +1 Sword, Bane (Lawful Outsider), Bane (Evil Outsider), Holy. +5/+5, +6d6 dmg, anyone? After the priest wielding it died, the dancing sword killed the pit fiend he was fighting all by itself. Heh! ==Aelryinth
BloodGod 07-14-05, 10:53 PM	+1 Vicious Evil Outsider and Chaotic Evil Outsider Bane Greatsword. 8d6. =) -BG
Calico Jack Drake 07-15-05, 02:31 AM	There was a module posted on the WoTC site about fallen heroes and their loot in a tower in hell. One of the magic items was an Intelligent, Dancing +1 Sword, Bane (Lawful Outsider), Bane (Evil Outsider), Holy. +5/+5, +6d6 dmg, anyone? After the priest wielding it died, the dancing sword killed the pit fiend he was fighting all by itself. Heh! ==Aelryinth Errr.... as I read the Bane, only the damage, not the bonuses to hit would stack. The Bane description specifically says it provides an additional +2 over the normal weapon's to hit not just an additional +2. Therefore, a +1 Dragon Bane, Mage Bane, Holy weapon would only be +3 v. a Red Dragon but would get +6d6 extra damage. -CJ
NeueRegel 07-15-05, 07:30 AM	Okay, just a caveat, right off: This is my 3.5 two-cents' worth only; Nothing official about it. I also asked this question once, but I think I asked it of my co-DM, not here on the boards. We also could find no written answer, one way or the other. One of the resources we use is a computer program called E-tools, a WotC sanctioned product that is a character/monster/treasure generator and editor. And truth be told, while there's one or two rule inconsistencies in the program, it's otherwise 99.5% dead-on right to RAW, down to requiring feat pre-reqs, not allowing weapon bonuses past +10, correctly assigning TWF penalties, and so on and so forth. Point being: The program is VERY all-encompassing, and by it's very nature, it has answered many of our questions by the de facto use of "create a character -&- try to assign the character this-or-that", and see if the program allows it." Now, as a "for-instance", the program will allow multiple weapon abilities, such as speed, flaming burst, and shocking burst, all together. It will not allow flame together with frost, nor will it allow you to apply holy and unholy to the same weapon. Finally, the program will not allow you to apply speed or spell storing to the same weapon twice, nor will it allow you to apply bane to the same weapon twice; And it does make you choose the bane-specific type, just as the program makes you choose a weapon for a feat such as "focus" or "improved critical". Like I noted, the program is very very detailed. Thus, it seems that the bane ability of weapons is deemed one of the "uniques", not to be multiply-applied. RAW. However, some of you already brought up the very instance that we were asking. That "Demon-slayer" sword... Bane-Outsider-Chaotic and Bane-Outsider-Evil, together. It simply makes too much sense from a flavour-gaming standpoint to not allow it. So, we, the gods-of-game-balance-of-our-private-little-world, sorta houseruled this: You MAY apply {logical} multiple banes to a weapon, but with the caveat that the banes become mutually inclusive and thus self-limiting. This means that the Demon-slayer double bane sword does indeed exist, but BOTH of it's banes must be met for EITHER to work. In other words, the enemy must be an outsider that is both chaotic and evil for any bane(s) to come into play; It would have no special bane effect on a Devil (lawful outsider, evil). But against a Demon, the damage would be +4d6. (With a single extra +2 bonus 'to hit' applied for bane, not stacked twice!). (Somebody else was also correct, in that the enhancement 'to-hit' does not stack, but the 'damage-dice' do). Now, off-topic... Add in holy, axiomatic, and two banes... throw in some intelligence for flavour... you have a +4 weapon with +6 of powers that is all kinds of fun when having a tea party with Lolth ;) NeueRegel PS: I assume that you remembered to make that sword of cold iron, right?
kjenks 07-15-05, 07:44 AM	It will not allow flame together with frost, nor will it allow you to apply holy and unholy to the same weapon. Don't trust these computer programs as sources for rule information. Just read the rules. The Main 3.5e FAQ answers the frosty-firey weapon question: Yes, you can. As to both Holy and Unholy, one person could not create such a weapon, but two people cooperating could. The "creator must be good" for a Holy weapon and the "creator must be evil" for an Unholy weapon, but if the weapon were crafted by one person then upgraded by another, both requirements could be met.
NeueRegel 07-15-05, 07:51 AM	Don't trust these computer programs as sources for rule information. Just read the rules. The Main 3.5e FAQ answers the frosty-firey weapon question: Yes, you can. As to both Holy and Unholy, one person could not create such a weapon, but two people cooperating could. The "creator must be good" for a Holy weapon and the "creator must be evil" for an Unholy weapon, but if the weapon were crafted by one person then upgraded by another, both requirements could be met. We don't rely on the program any more than we rely on tables; Text first, as the rule. We do rely on simple common sense. It just so happens that the program happens to coincide with the simple fact that frosty-fiery and holy-unholy are undeniably silly ideas. We are well aware of the FAQs and loopholes. Fortunately, our players are as even-keeled as us two DMs. Neue
Ensjak 07-15-05, 12:41 PM	It just so happens that the program happens to coincide with the simple fact that frosty-fiery[...]are undeniably silly ideas. Neue Frosty-Fiery makes sense...haven't you ever heard of that IcyHot stuff?
NeueRegel 07-15-05, 01:06 PM	Frosty-Fiery makes sense...haven't you ever heard of that IcyHot stuff? Yeppers, friend. The wife suffers from some minor back problems, I use it on her. It's cold first, then hot later; not at the same time. On an off-note, there was a spell (Dragon Mag?) back in 2nd edition that was a one-two combination Ice-ball --- Fireball punch; the freezing effect happened first, followed a segment later (old initiative term; "second or two") by the fire effect. 8th level spell, caused some serious damage. Or I may have it backwards; fire first then freezing? Basically, it had the same effect of dropping a heated glass marble into a pan of cool water. (Gradeschool Science class, remember?) But the two effects simultaneously? C'mon. I don't have any problem with munchkins wanting to add all the damages they can; I'd allow it in my game by a guest player, should he happen to have such a weapon. Fine by us. It's legal, RAW/FAQ. We regulars just prefer a dash of logic with our magic. You'd also probably freak out if I mentioned that we don't allow heavy two-handed swinging weapons from horseback either, because the logistics and physics involved would pull the rider from his saddle. That's why sabres and scimitars were the preferred weapons of cavalry, and why there were bastard swords; one-handed use while mounted, but a two-handed grip while afoot, for the damage. (3.5 addresses this with the 1.5 str bonus, but 2nd edition had it better, with base damage for the bastard sword being higher when used two-handed). Heck, now that I think about it, 2nd edition didn't even call weapons "light" and "heavy". There was "horsemans pick, horsemans flail", etc, and "footmans pick, footmans flail", and so on. Man, that got really off-topic, just to illustrate my point. Sorry ;) Good Gaming :) Neue