Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tvar1 10-24-05, 06:15 PM	Can you make a bane weapon that is effective against half-fiends or half-celestials? Those creatures are Outsiders with the Native subtype, but that option isn't available under the table for Bane weaons. That subtype is available for the Ranger's Favored Enemy, however. It seems to me that bane weapons for Evil Outsiders and Good Outsiders should affect half-fiends and half-celestials respectively, but that doesn't seem to be the case according to the rules. Plus, even if Native Outsiders were a possible bane weapon option, it seems odd that the weapon would affect half-fiends and half-celestials identically.
primemover003 10-24-05, 06:27 PM	An outsider bane weapon is usually tied to an alignment... if the outsider in question falls under that alignment (good, evil, lawful, or chaotic) it is affected by the weapon. So if a Half fiend has an evil alignment (not just the subtype) then they are damaged by a bane evil outsider weapon. Same goes for a evil tiefling or a good aasimar with a bane good outsider... subtypes don't factor in at all...
Colmarr 10-25-05, 03:36 AM	So if a Half fiend has an evil alignment (not just the subtype) then they are damaged by a bane evil outsider weapon. Same goes for a evil tiefling or a good aasimar with a bane good outsider... subtypes don't factor in at all... I'm not sure that's correct. You'll notice that the list of Outsiders also includes Earth and Fire, which clearly aren't alignments. The Bane description also states that "A bane weapon excels at attacking one type or subtype of creature". Putting the two together, it seems pretty clear to me that a half-fiend or half-celestial will not trigger the bane property. tvar1, if you dislike that answer, feel free to houserule it or to introduce a new bane property (after all, others have been added in the Complete series).
cwslyclgh 10-25-05, 01:45 PM	there is a relavent passage in the FAQ that contradicts Colmarr: Do flasks of holy water hurt tieflings? Would a bane weapon against evil outsiders get its increased enhancement bonus against tieflings and deal extra damage against tieflings? An outsider is “evil” if it has any evil alignment (chaotic evil, neutral evil, or lawful evil). For the purpose of resolving any effect whose results depend on subject’s alignment, an outsider also is “evil” if it has the evil subtype, no matter what its alignment actually is (see the evil subtype description in the Glossary of the Monster Manual). Holy water deals damage to undead and to evil outsiders that it strikes. An evil outsider bane weapon is more potent against evil outsiders. Since a tiefling is an outsider with the native subtype, it is susceptible to holy water or to the increased effects from an evil outsider bane weapon only if it has an evil alignment.
pres_man 10-25-05, 02:04 PM	It also contradicts primemover003. subtypes don't factor in at all... For the purpose of resolving any effect whose results depend on subject’s alignment, an outsider also is “evil” if it has the evil subtype, no matter what its alignment actually is (see the evil subtype description in the Glossary of the Monster Manual). So bane evil outsider would harm. -Any (sub)type of outsider that has an evil alignment, including evil angels (yes there can be these). -Any outsider with the evil subtype, including paladin succubi.
cwslyclgh 10-25-05, 02:37 PM	It also contradicts primemover003. this is true...
primemover003 10-25-05, 04:01 PM	son of a crap... I meant to say the Native subtype doesn't factor in at all.
Colmarr 10-25-05, 06:35 PM	I'm guessing that's a Skip Williams sage ruling. My man Andy would never say that! :cool: But for the purposes of this thread, I stand corrected.