Post/Author/DateTime	Post
userprop 04-14-06, 10:02 PM	What determines if an animal has the proficiency with some type of barding? - clearly the feat "armor proficiency" would take care of it. - animals "trained for war" have proficiency with barding WITHOUT spending a feat, does that mean all types of armor? light, medium, and heavy? - warhorses and riding dogs can and are "trained for war", what else comes like that? what about other mounts clearly used in fights, like griffons, nightmares, and such? - is "trained for war" and barding available only to mounts? what about other animals used in war, ones that aren't ridden, like packs of wolves for orc armies, can they be barded without penalty and without spending feats? are they "trained for war"? - can another type of animal, one that isnt a mount (like a cohort, familiar, or animal companion) through the use of handle animal, become "trained for war"? would they need to spend a feat on armor proficiency if they became "trained for war"?
Shadowfax7 04-14-06, 11:10 PM	I would use the following purpose under the Handle Animal skill . . . Combat Riding (DC 20): An animal trained to bear a rider into combat knows the tricks attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel. Training an animal for combat riding takes six weeks. You may also “upgrade” an animal trained for riding to one trained for combat riding by spending three weeks and making a successful DC 20 Handle Animal check. The new general purpose and tricks completely replace the animal’s previous purpose and any tricks it once knew. Warhorses and riding dogs are already trained to bear riders into combat, and they don’t require any additional training for this purpose.
Rochlar 04-14-06, 11:16 PM	there is also a template in the MM 2 called warbeast that will let an animal use barding. remember that an animal may not be smart enough to learn the number of tricks neede for that combat riding set.
userprop 04-14-06, 11:21 PM	so if i'm understanding you, if an animal with the intellegence of 2 (giving it enough tricks) was subject to a successful training using handle animal, it could wear barding (of any type) without spending a feat, right?
Shadowfax7 04-15-06, 09:56 AM	so if i'm understanding you, if an animal with the intellegence of 2 (giving it enough tricks) was subject to a successful training using handle animal, it could wear barding (of any type) without spending a feat, right?Yes, as long as he is trained with Combat Riding.
Zilred 04-15-06, 11:01 AM	As was discussed in another thread, the armor proficiency of an animal with barding can be irrelevant if the barding is the equivalent of padded, leather, masterwork studded leather, or mithral chain shirt since there is no armor check penalty, and thus would not affect a nonproficient wearer. Most mounts will wear only light armor anyway since they need to be quick (and may be carrying a rider in full plate often), or because light armor allows flying animals to fly since medium or heavy armor will keep them grounded. Also, I don't see anything in the RAW for Handle Animal that states that the animal being trained gains proficiency with anything. IMHO, I'd rule that if you wanted to train an animal to wear armor, it would learn a different feat in place of one others of its kind traditionally know from you raising it as such.