Barricades of bodies [Archive] - Wizards Community

Barricades of bodies [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dunamin
09-16-07, 08:45 AM I'm having evil bad guys fortify an entrance by stacking the bodies of their dead (they have an abundance of ogre corpses).

Which made me wonder: What is the hardness of and hp of a corpse in general? Or rather - corpses worth of a 5 ft segment?
Watchman
09-16-07, 12:44 PM I don't really see how "sundering" one would really help any - then you'd just be sliping on mincemeat and innards instead of stumbling on corpses. And I understand the slipperiness is actually the worse problem.
Ecalsneerg
09-16-07, 12:51 PM Maybe use a zombie stats, only not animated. Obviously.

"AAAARGH!!! THE BARRICADES ARE ATTACKING!"
Dunamin
09-16-07, 02:56 PM I don't really see how "sundering" one would really help any - then you'd just be sliping on mincemeat and innards instead of stumbling on corpses. And I understand the slipperiness is actually the worse problem.
I'm basically pondering what would be the game mechanics of working your way through corpses that have been set up with rope and such to form a barricade.
Watchman
09-16-07, 04:10 PM ...grab hold of a suitable bit and pull ? Shifting them out of the way would sound like the more practical solution...
EvilVegan
09-16-07, 04:18 PM I'd say about as hard as wood. Bone is tougher than most wood, skin/muscle is not.

Combine the two. . . viola.

As time passes they would become harder (rigor mortis) , then softer (rot), depending on level of decay.

As others have said, it would be easier to strike the ropes and move the corpses, but if you've got an adamantine axe and a few rounds to hack. . .
Cifer
09-16-07, 09:38 PM Wood sounds fine, though it's probably depending on how the ogres died - fireballs and greataxes leave less "material" to work with than rapiers and mindblasts.
I'd say hardness 4 and about 20 HP per 5' square. After that, you can step over them, though the field still counts as difficult terrain.
dman11235
09-16-07, 09:58 PM Check out Dungeonscape for the stats on flesh walls. Try that out. Page 142 gives stats for HP and hardness and such for many materials, flesh and bone included. Just get rid of the attacks and such.
Watchman
09-17-07, 01:42 AM 'Course, if they were wearing armour and nobody's looted it off them yet (and when people are hard pressed enough to improvise field fortifications out of the casualties around, they usually don't have time for that) the job just got a whole lot harder...
1 ton ghost
09-17-07, 02:43 PM interesting post btw. having a "300" or "The Gamer's: Dorkness Rising" moment (hide behind the dead bodies of the 1 bard)?

i guess you gotta look at a few variables concerning said "cover"/barricade
-it's not like the Soft Cover ruling in PHB, i mean, dead is dead, so defenders should get AC+
-how long have the ogres been "marinating"? effects hardness
-i guess it's all difficult ground at the very least. had alot of issues on this one for mass combat.
how many bodies in a 5ft square does it take to change movement? did many die by slashing attacks (slippery ground, Balance)? etc. etc.
-hardness/HP is contingent on mode of death, temp., etc. just find one that seems close to muscle/bone. dman11235 mentioned a good working solution from Dungeonscape, nj that
-and of course, don't forget the putrefication is undoubtedly gonna' spawn some serious bacteria ie)disease checks, etc.
Dunamin
09-17-07, 03:18 PM Thank you all for your input.

I didn't have a lot of time to consider the mechanics before our game session was to begin, so I just went with this:

A 5 ft square of closely stacked, tied, and/or chained corpses were given a hardness of 5 and 10 hp to "clear" - meaning, you could move through as per the difficult terrain rules (half speed, no charging or running, etc).

The corpses varied dramatically in how long they had been dead, by the way, but all were at least 3 days old.

I was surprised by how many different approaches the party used to get past, however:
The paladin first tried to push his way through, though his Str checks never reached 20 and I decided to set the DC beyond that.
While he shifted to hack his way through, the party rogue attempted to twist and crawl his way past, and I decided an Escape Artist check vs DC 25 would be good for crawling at quarter speed.
I played the party cleric since we were short of players and had her use Animate Objects after recalling she had that spell prepared - gave the objects Str checks to clear free segments corresponding to their size (low DC for bordering squares, high DC for "engulfed" squares).

In hindsight there are many details I would have changed about the implication, but overall it worked pretty well. The main advantage for the bad guys with this barricade, came in them getting the time they needed to get their buffs up.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dunamin 09-16-07, 08:45 AM	I'm having evil bad guys fortify an entrance by stacking the bodies of their dead (they have an abundance of ogre corpses). Which made me wonder: What is the hardness of and hp of a corpse in general? Or rather - corpses worth of a 5 ft segment?
Watchman 09-16-07, 12:44 PM	I don't really see how "sundering" one would really help any - then you'd just be sliping on mincemeat and innards instead of stumbling on corpses. And I understand the slipperiness is actually the worse problem.
Ecalsneerg 09-16-07, 12:51 PM	Maybe use a zombie stats, only not animated. Obviously. "AAAARGH!!! THE BARRICADES ARE ATTACKING!"
Dunamin 09-16-07, 02:56 PM	I don't really see how "sundering" one would really help any - then you'd just be sliping on mincemeat and innards instead of stumbling on corpses. And I understand the slipperiness is actually the worse problem. I'm basically pondering what would be the game mechanics of working your way through corpses that have been set up with rope and such to form a barricade.
Watchman 09-16-07, 04:10 PM	...grab hold of a suitable bit and pull ? Shifting them out of the way would sound like the more practical solution...
EvilVegan 09-16-07, 04:18 PM	I'd say about as hard as wood. Bone is tougher than most wood, skin/muscle is not. Combine the two. . . viola. As time passes they would become harder (rigor mortis) , then softer (rot), depending on level of decay. As others have said, it would be easier to strike the ropes and move the corpses, but if you've got an adamantine axe and a few rounds to hack. . .
Cifer 09-16-07, 09:38 PM	Wood sounds fine, though it's probably depending on how the ogres died - fireballs and greataxes leave less "material" to work with than rapiers and mindblasts. I'd say hardness 4 and about 20 HP per 5' square. After that, you can step over them, though the field still counts as difficult terrain.
dman11235 09-16-07, 09:58 PM	Check out Dungeonscape for the stats on flesh walls. Try that out. Page 142 gives stats for HP and hardness and such for many materials, flesh and bone included. Just get rid of the attacks and such.
Watchman 09-17-07, 01:42 AM	'Course, if they were wearing armour and nobody's looted it off them yet (and when people are hard pressed enough to improvise field fortifications out of the casualties around, they usually don't have time for that) the job just got a whole lot harder...
1 ton ghost 09-17-07, 02:43 PM	interesting post btw. having a "300" or "The Gamer's: Dorkness Rising" moment (hide behind the dead bodies of the 1 bard)? i guess you gotta look at a few variables concerning said "cover"/barricade -it's not like the Soft Cover ruling in PHB, i mean, dead is dead, so defenders should get AC+ -how long have the ogres been "marinating"? effects hardness -i guess it's all difficult ground at the very least. had alot of issues on this one for mass combat. how many bodies in a 5ft square does it take to change movement? did many die by slashing attacks (slippery ground, Balance)? etc. etc. -hardness/HP is contingent on mode of death, temp., etc. just find one that seems close to muscle/bone. dman11235 mentioned a good working solution from Dungeonscape, nj that -and of course, don't forget the putrefication is undoubtedly gonna' spawn some serious bacteria ie)disease checks, etc.
Dunamin 09-17-07, 03:18 PM	Thank you all for your input. I didn't have a lot of time to consider the mechanics before our game session was to begin, so I just went with this: A 5 ft square of closely stacked, tied, and/or chained corpses were given a hardness of 5 and 10 hp to "clear" - meaning, you could move through as per the difficult terrain rules (half speed, no charging or running, etc). The corpses varied dramatically in how long they had been dead, by the way, but all were at least 3 days old. I was surprised by how many different approaches the party used to get past, however: The paladin first tried to push his way through, though his Str checks never reached 20 and I decided to set the DC beyond that. While he shifted to hack his way through, the party rogue attempted to twist and crawl his way past, and I decided an Escape Artist check vs DC 25 would be good for crawling at quarter speed. I played the party cleric since we were short of players and had her use Animate Objects after recalling she had that spell prepared - gave the objects Str checks to clear free segments corresponding to their size (low DC for bordering squares, high DC for "engulfed" squares). In hindsight there are many details I would have changed about the implication, but overall it worked pretty well. The main advantage for the bad guys with this barricade, came in them getting the time they needed to get their buffs up.