Bastard Sword: Variety? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bastard Sword: Variety? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gothic Rose
03-01-07, 02:09 AM I was contemplating a character for an upcoming game, when I realized I needed to check the rules on bastard swords. They're still unclear, to me.

A bastard sword is a two hander under martial proficiency.
A bastard sword is a one hander with exotic proficiency.

Can someone who has both Martial and exotic proficiencies use a bastard sword either way? Specifically, does a bastard sword count as a two hander, giving such bonuses as +1 1/2 STR bonus, and doubling the output from Power Attack, when wielded in two hands?

If so, that makes it a much more versatile weapon than I previously considered it, since it could be used 2 handed, with a shield, or dual wielded (with an extra penalty, of course).
DogBackward
03-01-07, 02:14 AM Actually, all one-handed weapons (save the rapier) get 150% Str bonus when you attack with them in both hands. So, it's not really a big difference.
Gothic Rose
03-01-07, 02:14 AM Actually, all one-handed weapons (save the rapier) get 150% Str bonus when you attack with them in both hands. So, it's not really a big difference.

But they don't get the doubled output from power attack.
KurenaiYami
03-01-07, 02:15 AM I was contemplating a character for an upcoming game, when I realized I needed to check the rules on bastard swords. They're still unclear, to me.

A bastard sword is a two hander under martial proficiency.
A bastard sword is a one hander with exotic proficiency.

Can someone who has both Martial and exotic proficiencies use a bastard sword either way? Specifically, does a bastard sword count as a two hander, giving such bonuses as +1 1/2 STR bonus, and doubling the output from Power Attack, when wielded in two hands?

If so, that makes it a much more versatile weapon than I previously considered it, since it could be used 2 handed, with a shield, or dual wielded (with an extra penalty, of course).

That's right, but note that the +1 1/2 Str bonus isn't just for two-handed weapons, it's for any weapon you can wield two-handed. You can wield a one-handed weapon in two hands and still gain this benefit (just note a light weapon.) So all you need is the exotic weapon proficiency to use it either way.
runestar
03-01-07, 02:16 AM Yes. You always have the option of wielding a 1-handed non-light weapons with 2-hands, save for a few exceptions which explicitly state otherwise(like the rapier).:)
draconic_swine
03-01-07, 09:12 AM But they don't get the doubled output from power attack.

Yes they do, so it's a moot point. Even if they didn't, a bastard sword still would, since it's both an exotic one-handed weapon and a martial two-handed weapon. From the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#powerAttack):

If you attack with a two-handed weapon, or with a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, instead add twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls.
Sigst
03-01-07, 09:39 AM What happens if, let's say a cleric purchases "Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword"? Is he then proficient with using it one-handed but not proficient using it two-handed, since he lacks the martial weapon proficiency feat?

That does not make much sense to me... :confused:

Sig
DogBackward
03-01-07, 12:15 PM He would still be able to wield it in both hands, as you can wield any one-handed weapon in two hands whenever you want. No problems there.
draconic_swine
03-01-07, 03:20 PM I've seen this debated on forums on other sites, but DogBackward hit the nail on the head. You can wield any one-handed weapon in two hands (whether you're proficient with the weapon or not), so if you're proficient with a bastard sword in one hand, you should be able to wield it two-handed without penalty. Of course, there are some people who rule that a wizard with EWP: bastard sword can't use it two-handed without penalty, but most people says that's bull. The bastard sword as a martial weapon is there to really provide fighter-types with the ability to use it, but still have to invest a feat to use it to its full potential.
Bluebrush
03-01-07, 03:24 PM What happens if, let's say a cleric purchases "Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword"? Is he then proficient with using it one-handed but not proficient using it two-handed, since he lacks the martial weapon proficiency feat?

That does not make much sense to me... :confused:

SigNo, he is proficient with it either way. For him it's a one handed weapon but he has the option of treating it as a two handed weapon, just as he has for a morningstar.
Gothic Rose
03-03-07, 02:04 PM Yes they do, so it's a moot point. Even if they didn't, a bastard sword still would, since it's both an exotic one-handed weapon and a martial two-handed weapon. From the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#powerAttack):

Jawsome, thanks! I hadn't noticed that last bit. Coolbeans. :)
Johannixx
03-06-07, 01:21 AM I think the bastard sword is one of the best weapons for a high-damage-output melee character, especially a barbarian. You can use a shield with it when you need extra AC, and switch to dealing lots of two-handed damage when you need to. With a decent Strength score and one level of the Exotic Weapon Master PrC, you will easily do more damage than you would with a greatsword of equivalent enchantment. For example, my barbarian7/EWM1 with a 20 Strength normally does 1d10+5 damage (average 10.5) wielding his bastard sword single-handedly. When he uses it in both hands, he deals 1d10+10 (Str*2, from the Uncanny Blow PrC ability) for an average of 15.5 damage per swing. With a greatsword, he would be dealing 2d6+7, or 14 points of damage on average. With rage, this goes up further, to 1d10+14 (average 19.5) vs. 2d6+10 (average 17). So, with more damage and more versatility, there is no reason to use a greatsword. Thank you, Exotic Weapon Master 3.5!
Perun
03-06-07, 01:44 AM I think the bastard sword is one of the best weapons for a high-damage-output melee character, especially a barbarian. You can use a shield with it when you need extra AC, and switch to dealing lots of two-handed damage when you need to. With a decent Strength score and one level of the Exotic Weapon Master PrC, you will easily do more damage than you would with a greatsword of equivalent enchantment. For example, my barbarian7/EWM1 with a 20 Strength normally does 1d10+5 damage (average 10.5) wielding his bastard sword single-handedly. When he uses it in both hands, he deals 1d10+10 (Str*2, from the Uncanny Blow PrC ability) for an average of 15.5 damage per swing. With a greatsword, he would be dealing 2d6+7, or 14 points of damage on average. With rage, this goes up further, to 1d10+14 (average 19.5) vs. 2d6+10 (average 17). So, with more damage and more versatility, there is no reason to use a greatsword. Thank you, Exotic Weapon Master 3.5!

But for anyone who is not a EWM, it's a tie on whether to spend a feat on EWP (bastard sword) or simply use a longsword. On average, it's a one-point difference in damage (d8 average is 4,5 vs. 5,5 for d10), and a maximum difference of 2 points (8 vs. 10). It's not that signifficant a difference, especially for higher-level martial characters, when most damage comes from various bonuses.

Regards.
kelvinaw273
03-06-07, 01:52 AM I rate katana slightly above bastard sword ... but only because it is slightly lighter.
Johannixx
03-06-07, 02:10 AM But for anyone who is not a EWM, it's a tie on whether to spend a feat on EWP (bastard sword) or simply use a longsword. On average, it's a one-point difference in damage (d8 average is 4,5 vs. 5,5 for d10), and a maximum difference of 2 points (8 vs. 10). It's not that signifficant a difference, especially for higher-level martial characters, when most damage comes from various bonuses.

Regards.

If you're looking at it as a single-handed weapon, then yes, I would take a longsword any day of the week. If for no other reason, you get more damage out of Weapon Specialization (Longsword) than you do out of EWP (Bastard Sword), and you can two-hand both of them if you want extra damage.
SolenVlos
03-06-07, 08:14 AM I"m using the bastard sword exotic weapon master trick, and it's going good.
STR 24, greater especialization, melee mastery and +1 flamming other stuff
1d10+20+1d6 is good.

when power attack mojo kicks in, it's even better.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gothic Rose 03-01-07, 02:09 AM	I was contemplating a character for an upcoming game, when I realized I needed to check the rules on bastard swords. They're still unclear, to me. A bastard sword is a two hander under martial proficiency. A bastard sword is a one hander with exotic proficiency. Can someone who has both Martial and exotic proficiencies use a bastard sword either way? Specifically, does a bastard sword count as a two hander, giving such bonuses as +1 1/2 STR bonus, and doubling the output from Power Attack, when wielded in two hands? If so, that makes it a much more versatile weapon than I previously considered it, since it could be used 2 handed, with a shield, or dual wielded (with an extra penalty, of course).
DogBackward 03-01-07, 02:14 AM	Actually, all one-handed weapons (save the rapier) get 150% Str bonus when you attack with them in both hands. So, it's not really a big difference.
Gothic Rose 03-01-07, 02:14 AM	Actually, all one-handed weapons (save the rapier) get 150% Str bonus when you attack with them in both hands. So, it's not really a big difference. But they don't get the doubled output from power attack.
KurenaiYami 03-01-07, 02:15 AM	I was contemplating a character for an upcoming game, when I realized I needed to check the rules on bastard swords. They're still unclear, to me. A bastard sword is a two hander under martial proficiency. A bastard sword is a one hander with exotic proficiency. Can someone who has both Martial and exotic proficiencies use a bastard sword either way? Specifically, does a bastard sword count as a two hander, giving such bonuses as +1 1/2 STR bonus, and doubling the output from Power Attack, when wielded in two hands? If so, that makes it a much more versatile weapon than I previously considered it, since it could be used 2 handed, with a shield, or dual wielded (with an extra penalty, of course). That's right, but note that the +1 1/2 Str bonus isn't just for two-handed weapons, it's for any weapon you can wield two-handed. You can wield a one-handed weapon in two hands and still gain this benefit (just note a light weapon.) So all you need is the exotic weapon proficiency to use it either way.
runestar 03-01-07, 02:16 AM	Yes. You always have the option of wielding a 1-handed non-light weapons with 2-hands, save for a few exceptions which explicitly state otherwise(like the rapier).:)
draconic_swine 03-01-07, 09:12 AM	But they don't get the doubled output from power attack. Yes they do, so it's a moot point. Even if they didn't, a bastard sword still would, since it's both an exotic one-handed weapon and a martial two-handed weapon. From the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#powerAttack): If you attack with a two-handed weapon, or with a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, instead add twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls.
Sigst 03-01-07, 09:39 AM	What happens if, let's say a cleric purchases "Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword"? Is he then proficient with using it one-handed but not proficient using it two-handed, since he lacks the martial weapon proficiency feat? That does not make much sense to me... :confused: Sig
DogBackward 03-01-07, 12:15 PM	He would still be able to wield it in both hands, as you can wield any one-handed weapon in two hands whenever you want. No problems there.
draconic_swine 03-01-07, 03:20 PM	I've seen this debated on forums on other sites, but DogBackward hit the nail on the head. You can wield any one-handed weapon in two hands (whether you're proficient with the weapon or not), so if you're proficient with a bastard sword in one hand, you should be able to wield it two-handed without penalty. Of course, there are some people who rule that a wizard with EWP: bastard sword can't use it two-handed without penalty, but most people says that's bull. The bastard sword as a martial weapon is there to really provide fighter-types with the ability to use it, but still have to invest a feat to use it to its full potential.
Bluebrush 03-01-07, 03:24 PM	What happens if, let's say a cleric purchases "Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword"? Is he then proficient with using it one-handed but not proficient using it two-handed, since he lacks the martial weapon proficiency feat? That does not make much sense to me... :confused: SigNo, he is proficient with it either way. For him it's a one handed weapon but he has the option of treating it as a two handed weapon, just as he has for a morningstar.
Gothic Rose 03-03-07, 02:04 PM	Yes they do, so it's a moot point. Even if they didn't, a bastard sword still would, since it's both an exotic one-handed weapon and a martial two-handed weapon. From the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#powerAttack): Jawsome, thanks! I hadn't noticed that last bit. Coolbeans. :)
Johannixx 03-06-07, 01:21 AM	I think the bastard sword is one of the best weapons for a high-damage-output melee character, especially a barbarian. You can use a shield with it when you need extra AC, and switch to dealing lots of two-handed damage when you need to. With a decent Strength score and one level of the Exotic Weapon Master PrC, you will easily do more damage than you would with a greatsword of equivalent enchantment. For example, my barbarian7/EWM1 with a 20 Strength normally does 1d10+5 damage (average 10.5) wielding his bastard sword single-handedly. When he uses it in both hands, he deals 1d10+10 (Str*2, from the Uncanny Blow PrC ability) for an average of 15.5 damage per swing. With a greatsword, he would be dealing 2d6+7, or 14 points of damage on average. With rage, this goes up further, to 1d10+14 (average 19.5) vs. 2d6+10 (average 17). So, with more damage and more versatility, there is no reason to use a greatsword. Thank you, Exotic Weapon Master 3.5!
Perun 03-06-07, 01:44 AM	I think the bastard sword is one of the best weapons for a high-damage-output melee character, especially a barbarian. You can use a shield with it when you need extra AC, and switch to dealing lots of two-handed damage when you need to. With a decent Strength score and one level of the Exotic Weapon Master PrC, you will easily do more damage than you would with a greatsword of equivalent enchantment. For example, my barbarian7/EWM1 with a 20 Strength normally does 1d10+5 damage (average 10.5) wielding his bastard sword single-handedly. When he uses it in both hands, he deals 1d10+10 (Str*2, from the Uncanny Blow PrC ability) for an average of 15.5 damage per swing. With a greatsword, he would be dealing 2d6+7, or 14 points of damage on average. With rage, this goes up further, to 1d10+14 (average 19.5) vs. 2d6+10 (average 17). So, with more damage and more versatility, there is no reason to use a greatsword. Thank you, Exotic Weapon Master 3.5! But for anyone who is not a EWM, it's a tie on whether to spend a feat on EWP (bastard sword) or simply use a longsword. On average, it's a one-point difference in damage (d8 average is 4,5 vs. 5,5 for d10), and a maximum difference of 2 points (8 vs. 10). It's not that signifficant a difference, especially for higher-level martial characters, when most damage comes from various bonuses. Regards.
kelvinaw273 03-06-07, 01:52 AM	I rate katana slightly above bastard sword ... but only because it is slightly lighter.
Johannixx 03-06-07, 02:10 AM	But for anyone who is not a EWM, it's a tie on whether to spend a feat on EWP (bastard sword) or simply use a longsword. On average, it's a one-point difference in damage (d8 average is 4,5 vs. 5,5 for d10), and a maximum difference of 2 points (8 vs. 10). It's not that signifficant a difference, especially for higher-level martial characters, when most damage comes from various bonuses. Regards. If you're looking at it as a single-handed weapon, then yes, I would take a longsword any day of the week. If for no other reason, you get more damage out of Weapon Specialization (Longsword) than you do out of EWP (Bastard Sword), and you can two-hand both of them if you want extra damage.
SolenVlos 03-06-07, 08:14 AM	I"m using the bastard sword exotic weapon master trick, and it's going good. STR 24, greater especialization, melee mastery and +1 flamming other stuff 1d10+20+1d6 is good. when power attack mojo kicks in, it's even better.