Bastard swords as light weapons? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bastard swords as light weapons? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Drath'ri
05-29-06, 01:37 AM Is there any way shape or form i can treat bastard swords as light weapons. Any feats or magical abilties are all plausible, classes are not allowed though.

me and my friends have been trying to figure it out all day. thnaks in advance.
GhostStepper
05-29-06, 01:41 AM get enlarged. For what purpose do you need to wield it as light?
terrashand
05-29-06, 01:41 AM Some perm'd spell, or magical effect making you large I guess. Otherwise powerful build I'm sure of nor am I sure of monkey grip.
Drath'ri
05-29-06, 01:48 AM i need it for two weapon fighting, i wish to dual weild them. with tempest, at no penalty.
runestar
05-29-06, 01:51 AM Weapon finesse does not apply to weapons of different size compared to you. ;)

Isn't there some magic weapon property called a hornblade or something in races of faerun? That might be what you are looking for.
Kresalak
05-29-06, 01:51 AM Take Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting, from Complete Adventurer.
Deity
05-29-06, 01:52 AM A Sun Blade. A specific magical weapon in the DMG. It is a Bastard sword which is as light as a short sword, and is treated as such, with some other neat magical abilitis, however, you need to be good to use it.
Drath'ri
05-29-06, 01:58 AM Take Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting, from Complete Adventurer.

I can honestly say I love you.
Silverthumb128
05-29-06, 02:14 AM Isn't there some magic weapon property called a hornblade or something in races of faerun? That might be what you are looking for.

I think that's only for Longswords, though I could be mistaken.
kelvinaw273
05-29-06, 02:27 AM No.

A bastard sword is not and never will be a light weapon. If you don't believe me, find a five-foot long iron bar. Hold it by one end and heft it. Believe me now?
Norsesmithy
05-29-06, 02:40 AM Take the above poster's advice and you will have no clue what a bastard sword is like.

The bastards I make weigh slightly more than 3 lbs, and are 45-50 inches long. Really, a bastard is almost never more than 4 1/4 lbs, and unlike a solid metal bar, it is balanced to be used w/out fatiging the user in 5 minutes. (Using fancy things like fullers and distal taper and pommels, all of which are missing on an Iron rod)
runestar
05-29-06, 02:42 AM A bastard sword is not and never will be a light weapon. If you don't believe me, find a five-foot long iron bar. Hold it by one end and heft it. Believe me now?
Only if you don't have the appropriate splatbook. ;)

The hornblade enhancement property lets your weapon be treated as 1 category lighter, but applies only to halflings and gnomes. :( Unless you are willing to invest ranks in UMD... :P
SoldierOfFortune187
05-29-06, 03:08 AM Decrease the size category and wield small (instead of medium) bastard swords. :D
Bluebrush
05-29-06, 05:31 AM There have been feats and prestige classes to let you do that sort of thing scattered throughout Dungeon and Dragon magazine. Though it's not worth your time to hunt for them if you just needed oversized TWF.
runestar
05-29-06, 06:52 AM Decrease the size category and wield small (instead of medium) bastard swords.
But then you can't finesse them. :(
Thorak
05-29-06, 12:04 PM No.

A bastard sword is not and never will be a light weapon.
Unless you take Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, and have the EWP for bastard swords. OTWF lets you treat any one-handed weapon as if it were light for TWF penalties. It's not actually light, but this is exactly what the OP was looking for.
If you don't believe me, find a five-foot long iron bar. Hold it by one end and heft it. Believe me now?
An iron bar isn't even remotely balanced like a sword would be.

But then you can't finesse them
Sure you can, as long as you have the EWP. They're normally a one-handed weapon, but they're designed for a creature one size smaller than you, so you wield them as light weapons. And all light weapons are finessable.
Johannixx
05-29-06, 02:44 PM Either take the Oversize Two-Weapon Fighting feat or find a Sunblade for your off-hand weapon.
Wonton2006
05-29-06, 03:27 PM The OP was trying to make them light for Weapon Finesse, I think. If you only need it for the purposes of TWF, take EWP and Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting. If for other pusrposes (such as Weapon Finesse), you'd need the Featherlight enchantment. Unfortunately, I forgot where it was from...
Thorak
05-29-06, 03:37 PM The OP was trying to make them light for Weapon Finesse, I think. If you only need it for the purposes of TWF, take EWP and Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting. If for other pusrposes (such as Weapon Finesse), you'd need the Featherlight enchantment. Unfortunately, I forgot where it was from...
The OP, from the 4th post in the thread;
"i need it for two weapon fighting, i wish to dual weild them. with tempest, at no penalty."

Oversized TWF does exactly that. Hence us saying that it's exactly what he wants.
runestar
05-30-06, 08:41 AM Sure you can, as long as you have the EWP. They're normally a one-handed weapon, but they're designed for a creature one size smaller than you, so you wield them as light weapons. And all light weapons are finessable.
From the SRD...
WEAPON FINESSE [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.
Special: A fighter may select Weapon Finesse as one of his fighter bonus feats.
Natural weapons are always considered light weapons.

So a weapon made for a creature of a smaller size category from you cannot be finessed. ;) That was what I meant.
Sunrider
05-30-06, 08:50 AM Graceful Edge, from Dragon Compendium.

Lets you treat a specific one-handed slashing weapon as light (so no PA with it, and you suffer penalties to Sunder/Disarm as per a light weapon) and gives you a few other benefits with it.

IMO it's usually not worth it...
Bulletproof_Condom
05-30-06, 10:32 AM I'd like to point out that a human fighter (and only a human fighter) can get Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword), Two-Weapon Fighting, and Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting at 1st level. You'd need a Str of 13 and a Dex of 15, though you'll probably want a slightly higher Dex so you can meet those later Dex requirements using your 4th-level ability increases.

After that 1st level, you can switch to whatever class you want. I personally would stay in fighter for at least 4 levels, possibly more depending on how many of those juicy new fighter feats I wanted.

I'd also like to point out that Oversized TWF doesn't actually treat the weapon as light, it just reduces your penalties for fighting with two one-handed weapons to -2/-2, so you can indeed Power Attack with both weapons. I have mixed feelings about the fact that this feat has rendered double weapons all but obsolete.
Rochlar
05-30-06, 11:48 AM everyone here has overlooked a very simple solution to this. in the A&EG, which is still current, there is an ability for melee weapons called balanced. it does exactly what you need - treats a weapon as one step lighter for all purposes (eg greatsword becomes 1-handed, bastard sword becomes light), and it only costs +1 to the weapon.
fatal error
05-30-06, 12:16 PM I have mixed feelings about the fact that this feat has rendered double weapons all but obsolete.

Yea, I would agree if double weapons weren't the most contrived things I've ever seen (non-literal interpretation please).

Seriously, I don't mourn the death of the double sword, double axe, double flail OR double hammer.
ShinAkuma2
05-30-06, 12:22 PM I'd like to point out that a human fighter (and only a human fighter) can get Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword), Two-Weapon Fighting, and Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting at 1st level.

The Strongheart Halfling would like to have a word with you.
Kresalak
05-30-06, 12:28 PM OTWF doesn't make them obsolete, since there's still the Valenar Double Scimitar and the Revenant Blade. Two handed PA bonus on both sides of the weapon, as well as 1.5 Str bonus to damage.
Tristan
05-30-06, 12:41 PM what the?! the thread maker was satisfied with the replies by the 5th post, why are there so many?! *kinda rhetorical*
Bulletproof_Condom
05-30-06, 02:53 PM The Strongheart Halfling would like to have a word with you.
The Strongheart Halfling can get a stepstool and kiss my hairy [hindquarters].

*cough*

Seriously though, they get the bonus feat? What book are they in? Is it harder for them to get the stats?

what the?! the thread maker was satisfied with the replies by the 5th post, why are there so many?! *kinda rhetorical*Boredom.
mvincent
05-30-06, 05:47 PM Sun Blade.Agreed.
Bukowski
05-30-06, 07:36 PM The Strongheart Halfling can get a stepstool and kiss my hairy [hindquarters].

*cough*

Seriously though, they get the bonus feat? What book are they in? Is it harder for them to get the stats?

Boredom.

They're a FR race.

And a dwarf may not be able to pull off the dual bastard swords at 1st lvl, but since he treats waraxes as martial wpns he can pull off the dual waraxes. Which is cooler. :cool:
Lord Schpungus
05-30-06, 09:02 PM Feycrafted, from DMG II. Decreases the damage die by one size, so d8 bastard swords, but they're light.
kelvinaw273
05-30-06, 09:05 PM Take the above poster's advice and you will have no clue what a bastard sword is like.

The bastards I make weigh slightly more than 3 lbs, and are 45-50 inches long. Really, a bastard is almost never more than 4 1/4 lbs, and unlike a solid metal bar, it is balanced to be used w/out fatiging the user in 5 minutes. (Using fancy things like fullers and distal taper and pommels, all of which are missing on an Iron rod)

Seriously you are right in that an iron bar is not the same, but the balance and weight (3lbs???) are significant. I have used one, and they weight closer to 7 lbs than 3lbs. A katana is significantly lighter, but is made and used in a totally different way.

As somebody has pointed out, Oversized TWF is a feat that allows them to be treated as alight weapon with regard to TWF penalties, which I can just about live with. But no weapon finesse!
GhostStepper
05-30-06, 09:13 PM Nope. Sorry. Used one.

Wait a sec...you used a 5 foot iron bar and thought it was a bastard sword? Both you and Noresmithy have valid points. A bastard sword IS bigger, heavier and less wieldy one-handed as your average light weapon, but its far from being as cumbersome as the iron bar you initially described.

So lets recap. Easier to weild than a iron bar (i.e. closer to being a light weapon than an iron bar). Still heavier and larger than a light weapon (think dagger)
GhostStepper
05-30-06, 09:15 PM kelvinaw...why did you have to edit your post and make it all civil and reasonable WHILE i was typing my last post. LOL
steamboat28
05-31-06, 12:26 AM I'm curious about this myself, as I have an OA Samurai/ Iaijutsu Master..

If Katanas are bastard swords, and Iaijutsu Master gains Weapon Finesse with them at like, 1st or 2nd level, do you think that would hold sway with a DM enough that I could use Flick of the Wrist with one?

I know it depends on the DM, but...is there anything else that could aid this?
GhostStepper
05-31-06, 12:34 AM I'm curious about this myself, as I have an OA Samurai/ Iaijutsu Master..

If Katanas are bastard swords, and Iaijutsu Master gains Weapon Finesse with them at like, 1st or 2nd level, do you think that would hold sway with a DM enough that I could use Flick of the Wrist with one?

I know it depends on the DM, but...is there anything else that could aid this?

It dont think it would be too outrageous, though i dont remember the iajutsu focus skill rules so i dont know how munchkin it could possibly be. Oh, and dont mention the ****** unless you want this thread shut down! lol ;)
Rochlar
05-31-06, 12:36 AM ...is there anything else that could aid this?

the only thing that actually changes a bastard sword into a light weapon in the balanced ability from the A&EG. see my post above. all the other feats/templates/sizes either dont make it light for all purposes (feats & feycraft), or they dissallow weapon finesse (smaller size).
GhostStepper
05-31-06, 12:39 AM the only thing that actually changes a bastard sword into a light weapon in the balanced ability from the A&EG. see my post above. all the other feats/templates/sizes either dont make it light for all purposes (feats & feycraft), or they dissallow weapon finesse (smaller size).

Or the sun sword as a sun katana...you can call it the Blade of Amaterasu. Oops, i said the k word.
Rochlar
05-31-06, 12:43 AM the problem is that that is a unique weapon. so what happens whe you want an adamantine version? or flaming burst? or even just a higher enhancement bonus? do you know the exact formula they used to make that weapon so you can figure out how to price those upgrades?

counterpoint: a +2, balanced, bane (evil outsider) bastard sword is almost idenitcal, and the cost is exactly the same (50,335gp). you do give up the daylight ability, and the x2 damage agianst undead, but you lose the alignment restrictions on evil creatures using it. i am sure they would come out the same (or very similar if you used the discount formulas, and ad hoc'd the double damage ability).
Norsesmithy
05-31-06, 12:47 AM I have used one, and they weight closer to 7 lbs than 3lbs.
Well I MAKE them.
If this is you experience with a bastard sword I pity you, Hopefully you didn't pay money for that abomination, having been told that it was representitive of real bastard swords.

Historical 72 inch bidenhanders were often less than 5.5 lbs. And they were large even for greatswords.

I have never smithed a sword that weighed 7 lbs, and if I did, I would melt it down immediately.
GhostStepper
05-31-06, 12:52 AM the problem is that that is a unique weapon. so what happens whe you want an adamantine version? or flaming burst? or even just a higher enhancement bonus?

I guess it depends on your DM. Peronally id allow you to add stuff on top of it. I just thought the Blade of Amaterasu as a flavor variation on the sun blade was approriate and pretty cool. The Balanced enhancement is probably the best for custom weapons though.
Rochlar
05-31-06, 12:56 AM i agree. and the x2 damage v. undead is insane. forget the holy avenger, i want a sun blade for my paladin!
Drath'ri
06-06-06, 04:01 PM Hello, *waves*

OP here, My original question was answered, Twice i may add. The balance enchantment which can be found in A&EG and by the Oversized two weapon fighting feat found in Cw. I choose to go with OTWF for my situation. Thank you very much and have a nice day.
TheCobra
06-06-06, 05:33 PM Take the above poster's advice and you will have no clue what a bastard sword is like.

We are talking about D&D bastard swords here, not real ones. According to the PHB, they are over five feet long and weigh 6 lbs. I guess you could use such a weapon in one hand in real life, but it doesn't sound very effective to me. I've read they used partisans with shields sometimes, though, so maybe you could thrust with it.
MADGator
06-06-06, 09:25 PM what the?! the thread maker was satisfied with the replies by the 5th post, why are there so many?! *kinda rhetorical*

Rhetorical? Allow me to quote Inigo Montoya - "I do not think that word means what you think it means." Anyways, we are givinh him OPTIONS.

To the OP: Have you built the character yet? Some races have the powerful build feature that lets them be treated as Large for weapon wielding. I believe if you had that and the EWP, the bastard sword would be treated as light.

Also guys, don't forget that weight has little to do with a weapon being light. The light mace (a light weapon) weighs the same as a longsword or scimitar! "Light" weapons are ones compact and balanced enough for wielding in VERY close quarter, hand to hand melees. Kinda like that whole "knife fight in a telephone booth" sort of thing.
GhostStepper
06-06-06, 09:44 PM To the OP: Have you built the character yet? Some races have the powerful build feature that lets them be treated as Large for weapon wielding. I believe if you had that and the EWP, the bastard sword would be treated as light.

Powerful Build doesnt let you treat medium one handed weapons as light. It would only let you treat a large one handed weapon as a one handed weapon without taking a penalty. You might be thinking of 3.0 Monkey Grip.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Drath'ri 05-29-06, 01:37 AM	Is there any way shape or form i can treat bastard swords as light weapons. Any feats or magical abilties are all plausible, classes are not allowed though. me and my friends have been trying to figure it out all day. thnaks in advance.
GhostStepper 05-29-06, 01:41 AM	get enlarged. For what purpose do you need to wield it as light?
terrashand 05-29-06, 01:41 AM	Some perm'd spell, or magical effect making you large I guess. Otherwise powerful build I'm sure of nor am I sure of monkey grip.
Drath'ri 05-29-06, 01:48 AM	i need it for two weapon fighting, i wish to dual weild them. with tempest, at no penalty.
runestar 05-29-06, 01:51 AM	Weapon finesse does not apply to weapons of different size compared to you. ;) Isn't there some magic weapon property called a hornblade or something in races of faerun? That might be what you are looking for.
Kresalak 05-29-06, 01:51 AM	Take Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting, from Complete Adventurer.
Deity 05-29-06, 01:52 AM	A Sun Blade. A specific magical weapon in the DMG. It is a Bastard sword which is as light as a short sword, and is treated as such, with some other neat magical abilitis, however, you need to be good to use it.
Drath'ri 05-29-06, 01:58 AM	Take Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting, from Complete Adventurer. I can honestly say I love you.
Silverthumb128 05-29-06, 02:14 AM	Isn't there some magic weapon property called a hornblade or something in races of faerun? That might be what you are looking for. I think that's only for Longswords, though I could be mistaken.
kelvinaw273 05-29-06, 02:27 AM	No. A bastard sword is not and never will be a light weapon. If you don't believe me, find a five-foot long iron bar. Hold it by one end and heft it. Believe me now?
Norsesmithy 05-29-06, 02:40 AM	Take the above poster's advice and you will have no clue what a bastard sword is like. The bastards I make weigh slightly more than 3 lbs, and are 45-50 inches long. Really, a bastard is almost never more than 4 1/4 lbs, and unlike a solid metal bar, it is balanced to be used w/out fatiging the user in 5 minutes. (Using fancy things like fullers and distal taper and pommels, all of which are missing on an Iron rod)
runestar 05-29-06, 02:42 AM	A bastard sword is not and never will be a light weapon. If you don't believe me, find a five-foot long iron bar. Hold it by one end and heft it. Believe me now? Only if you don't have the appropriate splatbook. ;) The hornblade enhancement property lets your weapon be treated as 1 category lighter, but applies only to halflings and gnomes. :( Unless you are willing to invest ranks in UMD... :P
SoldierOfFortune187 05-29-06, 03:08 AM	Decrease the size category and wield small (instead of medium) bastard swords. :D
Bluebrush 05-29-06, 05:31 AM	There have been feats and prestige classes to let you do that sort of thing scattered throughout Dungeon and Dragon magazine. Though it's not worth your time to hunt for them if you just needed oversized TWF.
runestar 05-29-06, 06:52 AM	Decrease the size category and wield small (instead of medium) bastard swords. But then you can't finesse them. :(
Thorak 05-29-06, 12:04 PM	No. A bastard sword is not and never will be a light weapon. Unless you take Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, and have the EWP for bastard swords. OTWF lets you treat any one-handed weapon as if it were light for TWF penalties. It's not actually light, but this is exactly what the OP was looking for. If you don't believe me, find a five-foot long iron bar. Hold it by one end and heft it. Believe me now? An iron bar isn't even remotely balanced like a sword would be. But then you can't finesse them Sure you can, as long as you have the EWP. They're normally a one-handed weapon, but they're designed for a creature one size smaller than you, so you wield them as light weapons. And all light weapons are finessable.
Johannixx 05-29-06, 02:44 PM	Either take the Oversize Two-Weapon Fighting feat or find a Sunblade for your off-hand weapon.
Wonton2006 05-29-06, 03:27 PM	The OP was trying to make them light for Weapon Finesse, I think. If you only need it for the purposes of TWF, take EWP and Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting. If for other pusrposes (such as Weapon Finesse), you'd need the Featherlight enchantment. Unfortunately, I forgot where it was from...
Thorak 05-29-06, 03:37 PM	The OP was trying to make them light for Weapon Finesse, I think. If you only need it for the purposes of TWF, take EWP and Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting. If for other pusrposes (such as Weapon Finesse), you'd need the Featherlight enchantment. Unfortunately, I forgot where it was from... The OP, from the 4th post in the thread; "i need it for two weapon fighting, i wish to dual weild them. with tempest, at no penalty." Oversized TWF does exactly that. Hence us saying that it's exactly what he wants.
runestar 05-30-06, 08:41 AM	Sure you can, as long as you have the EWP. They're normally a one-handed weapon, but they're designed for a creature one size smaller than you, so you wield them as light weapons. And all light weapons are finessable. From the SRD... WEAPON FINESSE [GENERAL] Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1. Benefit: With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls. Special: A fighter may select Weapon Finesse as one of his fighter bonus feats. Natural weapons are always considered light weapons. So a weapon made for a creature of a smaller size category from you cannot be finessed. ;) That was what I meant.
Sunrider 05-30-06, 08:50 AM	Graceful Edge, from Dragon Compendium. Lets you treat a specific one-handed slashing weapon as light (so no PA with it, and you suffer penalties to Sunder/Disarm as per a light weapon) and gives you a few other benefits with it. IMO it's usually not worth it...
Bulletproof_Condom 05-30-06, 10:32 AM	I'd like to point out that a human fighter (and only a human fighter) can get Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword), Two-Weapon Fighting, and Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting at 1st level. You'd need a Str of 13 and a Dex of 15, though you'll probably want a slightly higher Dex so you can meet those later Dex requirements using your 4th-level ability increases. After that 1st level, you can switch to whatever class you want. I personally would stay in fighter for at least 4 levels, possibly more depending on how many of those juicy new fighter feats I wanted. I'd also like to point out that Oversized TWF doesn't actually treat the weapon as light, it just reduces your penalties for fighting with two one-handed weapons to -2/-2, so you can indeed Power Attack with both weapons. I have mixed feelings about the fact that this feat has rendered double weapons all but obsolete.
Rochlar 05-30-06, 11:48 AM	everyone here has overlooked a very simple solution to this. in the A&EG, which is still current, there is an ability for melee weapons called balanced. it does exactly what you need - treats a weapon as one step lighter for all purposes (eg greatsword becomes 1-handed, bastard sword becomes light), and it only costs +1 to the weapon.
fatal error 05-30-06, 12:16 PM	I have mixed feelings about the fact that this feat has rendered double weapons all but obsolete. Yea, I would agree if double weapons weren't the most contrived things I've ever seen (non-literal interpretation please). Seriously, I don't mourn the death of the double sword, double axe, double flail OR double hammer.
ShinAkuma2 05-30-06, 12:22 PM	I'd like to point out that a human fighter (and only a human fighter) can get Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword), Two-Weapon Fighting, and Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting at 1st level. The Strongheart Halfling would like to have a word with you.
Kresalak 05-30-06, 12:28 PM	OTWF doesn't make them obsolete, since there's still the Valenar Double Scimitar and the Revenant Blade. Two handed PA bonus on both sides of the weapon, as well as 1.5 Str bonus to damage.
Tristan 05-30-06, 12:41 PM	what the?! the thread maker was satisfied with the replies by the 5th post, why are there so many?! kinda rhetorical
Bulletproof_Condom 05-30-06, 02:53 PM	The Strongheart Halfling would like to have a word with you. The Strongheart Halfling can get a stepstool and kiss my hairy [hindquarters]. cough Seriously though, they get the bonus feat? What book are they in? Is it harder for them to get the stats? what the?! the thread maker was satisfied with the replies by the 5th post, why are there so many?! kinda rhetoricalBoredom.
mvincent 05-30-06, 05:47 PM	Sun Blade.Agreed.
Bukowski 05-30-06, 07:36 PM	The Strongheart Halfling can get a stepstool and kiss my hairy [hindquarters]. cough Seriously though, they get the bonus feat? What book are they in? Is it harder for them to get the stats? Boredom. They're a FR race. And a dwarf may not be able to pull off the dual bastard swords at 1st lvl, but since he treats waraxes as martial wpns he can pull off the dual waraxes. Which is cooler. :cool:
Lord Schpungus 05-30-06, 09:02 PM	Feycrafted, from DMG II. Decreases the damage die by one size, so d8 bastard swords, but they're light.
kelvinaw273 05-30-06, 09:05 PM	Take the above poster's advice and you will have no clue what a bastard sword is like. The bastards I make weigh slightly more than 3 lbs, and are 45-50 inches long. Really, a bastard is almost never more than 4 1/4 lbs, and unlike a solid metal bar, it is balanced to be used w/out fatiging the user in 5 minutes. (Using fancy things like fullers and distal taper and pommels, all of which are missing on an Iron rod) Seriously you are right in that an iron bar is not the same, but the balance and weight (3lbs???) are significant. I have used one, and they weight closer to 7 lbs than 3lbs. A katana is significantly lighter, but is made and used in a totally different way. As somebody has pointed out, Oversized TWF is a feat that allows them to be treated as alight weapon with regard to TWF penalties, which I can just about live with. But no weapon finesse!
GhostStepper 05-30-06, 09:13 PM	Nope. Sorry. Used one. Wait a sec...you used a 5 foot iron bar and thought it was a bastard sword? Both you and Noresmithy have valid points. A bastard sword IS bigger, heavier and less wieldy one-handed as your average light weapon, but its far from being as cumbersome as the iron bar you initially described. So lets recap. Easier to weild than a iron bar (i.e. closer to being a light weapon than an iron bar). Still heavier and larger than a light weapon (think dagger)
GhostStepper 05-30-06, 09:15 PM	kelvinaw...why did you have to edit your post and make it all civil and reasonable WHILE i was typing my last post. LOL
steamboat28 05-31-06, 12:26 AM	I'm curious about this myself, as I have an OA Samurai/ Iaijutsu Master.. If Katanas are bastard swords, and Iaijutsu Master gains Weapon Finesse with them at like, 1st or 2nd level, do you think that would hold sway with a DM enough that I could use Flick of the Wrist with one? I know it depends on the DM, but...is there anything else that could aid this?
GhostStepper 05-31-06, 12:34 AM	I'm curious about this myself, as I have an OA Samurai/ Iaijutsu Master.. If Katanas are bastard swords, and Iaijutsu Master gains Weapon Finesse with them at like, 1st or 2nd level, do you think that would hold sway with a DM enough that I could use Flick of the Wrist with one? I know it depends on the DM, but...is there anything else that could aid this? It dont think it would be too outrageous, though i dont remember the iajutsu focus skill rules so i dont know how munchkin it could possibly be. Oh, and dont mention the ****** unless you want this thread shut down! lol ;)
Rochlar 05-31-06, 12:36 AM	...is there anything else that could aid this? the only thing that actually changes a bastard sword into a light weapon in the balanced ability from the A&EG. see my post above. all the other feats/templates/sizes either dont make it light for all purposes (feats & feycraft), or they dissallow weapon finesse (smaller size).
GhostStepper 05-31-06, 12:39 AM	the only thing that actually changes a bastard sword into a light weapon in the balanced ability from the A&EG. see my post above. all the other feats/templates/sizes either dont make it light for all purposes (feats & feycraft), or they dissallow weapon finesse (smaller size). Or the sun sword as a sun katana...you can call it the Blade of Amaterasu. Oops, i said the k word.
Rochlar 05-31-06, 12:43 AM	the problem is that that is a unique weapon. so what happens whe you want an adamantine version? or flaming burst? or even just a higher enhancement bonus? do you know the exact formula they used to make that weapon so you can figure out how to price those upgrades? counterpoint: a +2, balanced, bane (evil outsider) bastard sword is almost idenitcal, and the cost is exactly the same (50,335gp). you do give up the daylight ability, and the x2 damage agianst undead, but you lose the alignment restrictions on evil creatures using it. i am sure they would come out the same (or very similar if you used the discount formulas, and ad hoc'd the double damage ability).
Norsesmithy 05-31-06, 12:47 AM	I have used one, and they weight closer to 7 lbs than 3lbs. Well I MAKE them. If this is you experience with a bastard sword I pity you, Hopefully you didn't pay money for that abomination, having been told that it was representitive of real bastard swords. Historical 72 inch bidenhanders were often less than 5.5 lbs. And they were large even for greatswords. I have never smithed a sword that weighed 7 lbs, and if I did, I would melt it down immediately.
GhostStepper 05-31-06, 12:52 AM	the problem is that that is a unique weapon. so what happens whe you want an adamantine version? or flaming burst? or even just a higher enhancement bonus? I guess it depends on your DM. Peronally id allow you to add stuff on top of it. I just thought the Blade of Amaterasu as a flavor variation on the sun blade was approriate and pretty cool. The Balanced enhancement is probably the best for custom weapons though.
Rochlar 05-31-06, 12:56 AM	i agree. and the x2 damage v. undead is insane. forget the holy avenger, i want a sun blade for my paladin!
Drath'ri 06-06-06, 04:01 PM	Hello, waves OP here, My original question was answered, Twice i may add. The balance enchantment which can be found in A&EG and by the Oversized two weapon fighting feat found in Cw. I choose to go with OTWF for my situation. Thank you very much and have a nice day.
TheCobra 06-06-06, 05:33 PM	Take the above poster's advice and you will have no clue what a bastard sword is like. We are talking about D&D bastard swords here, not real ones. According to the PHB, they are over five feet long and weigh 6 lbs. I guess you could use such a weapon in one hand in real life, but it doesn't sound very effective to me. I've read they used partisans with shields sometimes, though, so maybe you could thrust with it.
MADGator 06-06-06, 09:25 PM	what the?! the thread maker was satisfied with the replies by the 5th post, why are there so many?! kinda rhetorical Rhetorical? Allow me to quote Inigo Montoya - "I do not think that word means what you think it means." Anyways, we are givinh him OPTIONS. To the OP: Have you built the character yet? Some races have the powerful build feature that lets them be treated as Large for weapon wielding. I believe if you had that and the EWP, the bastard sword would be treated as light. Also guys, don't forget that weight has little to do with a weapon being light. The light mace (a light weapon) weighs the same as a longsword or scimitar! "Light" weapons are ones compact and balanced enough for wielding in VERY close quarter, hand to hand melees. Kinda like that whole "knife fight in a telephone booth" sort of thing.
GhostStepper 06-06-06, 09:44 PM	To the OP: Have you built the character yet? Some races have the powerful build feature that lets them be treated as Large for weapon wielding. I believe if you had that and the EWP, the bastard sword would be treated as light. Powerful Build doesnt let you treat medium one handed weapons as light. It would only let you treat a large one handed weapon as a one handed weapon without taking a penalty. You might be thinking of 3.0 Monkey Grip.