Battle against a fort? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Battle against a fort? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
swordblaster
11-29-04, 06:08 PM Hey, I'm DMing a game, and in the next adventure I want the PCs to go up against a fortful of orcs. If the PCs were not able to sneak into the fort and take out the orcs from the inside would battling the fort from the outside work like normal combat? If not please explain what would happen. Thanks in advance.
steventirey1985
11-29-04, 07:23 PM Hey, I'm DMing a game, and in the next adventure I want the PCs to go up against a fortful of orcs. If the PCs were not able to sneak into the fort and take out the orcs from the inside would battling the fort from the outside work like normal combat? If not please explain what would happen. Thanks in advance.

For the most part, it will be the same once the PCs enter the fort. However, the PCs will have to breach the wall or gate (assuming the orcs arn't dumb enough to leave it open) which could be a problem, because as they are trying to create a hole, the orcs (probably) will be shooting at them with bows/crossbows.

Also, they would need some sort of siege engine (light catapult at the least) to use against the fort, as attecking a wall with swords is not a very good idea. (By the way, what level of party?) A mage with fireball or disentagrate (sp?) could be a real help in getting it the fort.
swordblaster
11-29-04, 10:02 PM They're all 2nd level.

Half-Elf Cleric, Half-Orc Barbarian, Gnome Bard, and Gnome Rogue. All except the barbarian have long-ranged weapons.

The fort looks like a cross, and there are four crude rampart type things at the ends of the cross. There are four orcs on guard duty at one time, one in eacho of the rampart things. In total there are 10 orcs. They all have longswords and longbows. There is also a smart ogre that gives the orcs orders.

The orcs get 1/2 cover from being in the ramparts. If the ogre sounds the alarm all orcs will go to areas on the side of the fort that have openings for them to shoot their bows at the enemy with. Being at these gives the orcs 3/4 cover.
steventirey1985
11-29-04, 10:55 PM I'm asuming the fort is wooden. Still, I would suggest a siege weapon (light catapult) to make a hole (and if the PCs are lucky, they'll take out a few orcs doing so). Of course, all of this is asuming they don't enter stealthfully.
Talmariel
11-29-04, 11:32 PM It should run like normal combat. Just ensure that you account for the fort's wall and door hardness and hit points, a Climb DC to scale the walls, and any odds and ends there might also be (a drawbridge-type door has chains, so you'd need hardness and hit points for those, also). You've got the cover figured in, which is primary. You might want to mark out ranged weapon range increments on some paper. Miniatures help a lot if you've got them handy (or any make-shift markers).

But yes, it should work like normal combat. Oh, also try Volley Fire for the orcs to speed things up. Maybe this is a real rule, maybe my group just duped me into thinking it is, but it's a great mechanic. If you've got a group of 5 (I think) adjacent attackers with ranged weapons they can fire in a volley instead of individually. You select an area with an equal dimension to the attackers' occupied spaces, then make a single attack roll (I guess it's using the lowest bonus, but if it's a bunch of orcs they're all the same anyway) against an AC 15 + range modifiers. If they hit, everyone in the affected area makes a Reflex save (DC 15) or takes damage from one arrow hit. If they miss, use the grenade-like deviation chart (should be in the Combat chapter of the PHB) to find their new target. Anyone in there still has to make that Reflex save (arrows have to land somewhere).

Our group did something similar around 3rd level, and it's a lot of fun. Again, miniatures will save you a lot of headache if you've got something you can use. The tear-out map in the back of the DMG is a Godsend, btw. Best of luck!
swordblaster
11-30-04, 07:29 AM Thanks guys.
TheEnforcer
11-30-04, 11:17 AM Oh, also try Volley Fire for the orcs to speed things up. Maybe this is a real rule, maybe my group just duped me into thinking it is, but it's a great mechanic.

It appears in the Complete Warrior. That's where I found it.
SureFoot
11-30-04, 01:41 PM They're all 2nd level.

Half-Elf Cleric, Half-Orc Barbarian, Gnome Bard, and Gnome Rogue. All except the barbarian have long-ranged weapons.

The fort looks like a cross, and there are four crude rampart type things at the ends of the cross. There are four orcs on guard duty at one time, one in eacho of the rampart things. In total there are 10 orcs. They all have longswords and longbows. There is also a smart ogre that gives the orcs orders.

The orcs get 1/2 cover from being in the ramparts. If the ogre sounds the alarm all orcs will go to areas on the side of the fort that have openings for them to shoot their bows at the enemy with. Being at these gives the orcs 3/4 cover.

This group is going to get eaten alive in 3 rounds or less with the scenario you describe. Four second-level characters agaisnt 10 orcs and 1 ogre in a fortified position and ranged weapons? Even if you play the orcs as total idiots, half the party will certinaly die.

Be prepared for a TPK, because that's what you're going to get.
Lord Santheocles
11-30-04, 04:31 PM not really, just have the party total defense until their in the fort, have a ring of steel that orcs go against, and just hunt out the ogre at your leisure

besides, you haven't specified win conditions, morale counts for a lot in these types of games. Something like if 6+orcs die, the rest try to escape, will negates, +4 bonus if thier within 20ft. of the ogre
BlackFiend
11-30-04, 04:38 PM Also...perhaps the defenders are exhausted and have lower hp due to an earlier skirmish. They have no cleric and supplies of cure potions are exhausted long ago!

The players can have a scrapping chance to make it...unless...well...I was DMing the game. Then they would have no chance at all. TPK all the way and back.
BrianMc223
11-30-04, 04:46 PM Yea, unless your a total idiot or very good at faking it your pcs have NO chance.
No-man
12-02-04, 10:39 AM Smart PC's will wait till the Orcs send out a party, ambush the party, then go against the fort using stealth to get in past the defenses.
SilverFoxKnows
12-02-04, 01:43 PM What domains does the cleric have and what spells does the bard have? A standard Orc is probably going to fail a Will save. That might be enough to get them inside the fort. Or if the Rogue could get close enough to start a fire on the walls, that might distract the others long enough to get the Barb within melee range. Do the Orcs know they're coming? Or is there some chance the PCs could surprise the Orcs? What are the PCs feats? Does anyone have Far Shot? Do the Orcs have Far Shot? Can the PCs outrange the Orcs with Hvy X-bows? Are any of the Orcs more than 1HD? What will the Orcs do if the PCs can take out the Ogre?

I think it's possible to take the fort. An experienced group of players who work well together will fair better than a group of newbees who have only gamed together a few times. And there's always the luck of the die. At that level one crit can turn the tables.

Frank
BlackFiend
12-02-04, 02:15 PM At low levels, a crit from an orc is nasty. D12/x3 Great Axe.

IMO, the best strategy of the PCs is to burn the place with arrows and hope to take them out at a distance. Rain arrows down on Orcs who man the walls looking for approaching targets. Then PCs advance under the cover of arrows and burn the pallisade walls.
The Soul Collector
12-02-04, 02:24 PM not really, just have the party total defense until their in the fort, have a ring of steel that orcs go against, and just hunt out the ogre at your leisure

besides, you haven't specified win conditions, morale counts for a lot in these types of games. Something like if 6+orcs die, the rest try to escape, will negates, +4 bonus if thier within 20ft. of the ogre

Doesn't Total Defense only work while in melee combat? I don't have the books in front of me.
toomre
12-02-04, 02:41 PM They're just a group, a party, not an army, they don't need siege weapons as they shouldn't be charging the fort openly. If they charge the fort then their deaths will be their own fault. The numbers they're facing in this scenario are not managebale in a head-on collision, but very manageable through divine and conquer. The people who've suggested assassinations, stealth, ambush parties, and setting the fort ablaze from afar, have the right idea in my opinion.
Spankinstein
12-02-04, 04:21 PM not really, just have the party total defense until their in the fort, have a ring of steel that orcs go against, and just hunt out the ogre at your leisure

besides, you haven't specified win conditions, morale counts for a lot in these types of games. Something like if 6+orcs die, the rest try to escape, will negates, +4 bonus if thier within 20ft. of the ogre

RIng of Steel???!?!??!?!? I doubt that this group has more than one heavily armored member, the cleric. This group is more designed for quick sneak strikes. Going at the fort as is would be suicide, especially if they have 4 guards within visible range of each other at all times.
PhaedrusXY
12-02-04, 04:27 PM Doesn't Total Defense only work while in melee combat? I don't have the books in front of me.Short Answer: No. If you want the long form, look it up later. :P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
swordblaster 11-29-04, 06:08 PM	Hey, I'm DMing a game, and in the next adventure I want the PCs to go up against a fortful of orcs. If the PCs were not able to sneak into the fort and take out the orcs from the inside would battling the fort from the outside work like normal combat? If not please explain what would happen. Thanks in advance.
steventirey1985 11-29-04, 07:23 PM	Hey, I'm DMing a game, and in the next adventure I want the PCs to go up against a fortful of orcs. If the PCs were not able to sneak into the fort and take out the orcs from the inside would battling the fort from the outside work like normal combat? If not please explain what would happen. Thanks in advance. For the most part, it will be the same once the PCs enter the fort. However, the PCs will have to breach the wall or gate (assuming the orcs arn't dumb enough to leave it open) which could be a problem, because as they are trying to create a hole, the orcs (probably) will be shooting at them with bows/crossbows. Also, they would need some sort of siege engine (light catapult at the least) to use against the fort, as attecking a wall with swords is not a very good idea. (By the way, what level of party?) A mage with fireball or disentagrate (sp?) could be a real help in getting it the fort.
swordblaster 11-29-04, 10:02 PM	They're all 2nd level. Half-Elf Cleric, Half-Orc Barbarian, Gnome Bard, and Gnome Rogue. All except the barbarian have long-ranged weapons. The fort looks like a cross, and there are four crude rampart type things at the ends of the cross. There are four orcs on guard duty at one time, one in eacho of the rampart things. In total there are 10 orcs. They all have longswords and longbows. There is also a smart ogre that gives the orcs orders. The orcs get 1/2 cover from being in the ramparts. If the ogre sounds the alarm all orcs will go to areas on the side of the fort that have openings for them to shoot their bows at the enemy with. Being at these gives the orcs 3/4 cover.
steventirey1985 11-29-04, 10:55 PM	I'm asuming the fort is wooden. Still, I would suggest a siege weapon (light catapult) to make a hole (and if the PCs are lucky, they'll take out a few orcs doing so). Of course, all of this is asuming they don't enter stealthfully.
Talmariel 11-29-04, 11:32 PM	It should run like normal combat. Just ensure that you account for the fort's wall and door hardness and hit points, a Climb DC to scale the walls, and any odds and ends there might also be (a drawbridge-type door has chains, so you'd need hardness and hit points for those, also). You've got the cover figured in, which is primary. You might want to mark out ranged weapon range increments on some paper. Miniatures help a lot if you've got them handy (or any make-shift markers). But yes, it should work like normal combat. Oh, also try Volley Fire for the orcs to speed things up. Maybe this is a real rule, maybe my group just duped me into thinking it is, but it's a great mechanic. If you've got a group of 5 (I think) adjacent attackers with ranged weapons they can fire in a volley instead of individually. You select an area with an equal dimension to the attackers' occupied spaces, then make a single attack roll (I guess it's using the lowest bonus, but if it's a bunch of orcs they're all the same anyway) against an AC 15 + range modifiers. If they hit, everyone in the affected area makes a Reflex save (DC 15) or takes damage from one arrow hit. If they miss, use the grenade-like deviation chart (should be in the Combat chapter of the PHB) to find their new target. Anyone in there still has to make that Reflex save (arrows have to land somewhere). Our group did something similar around 3rd level, and it's a lot of fun. Again, miniatures will save you a lot of headache if you've got something you can use. The tear-out map in the back of the DMG is a Godsend, btw. Best of luck!
swordblaster 11-30-04, 07:29 AM	Thanks guys.
TheEnforcer 11-30-04, 11:17 AM	Oh, also try Volley Fire for the orcs to speed things up. Maybe this is a real rule, maybe my group just duped me into thinking it is, but it's a great mechanic. It appears in the Complete Warrior. That's where I found it.
SureFoot 11-30-04, 01:41 PM	They're all 2nd level. Half-Elf Cleric, Half-Orc Barbarian, Gnome Bard, and Gnome Rogue. All except the barbarian have long-ranged weapons. The fort looks like a cross, and there are four crude rampart type things at the ends of the cross. There are four orcs on guard duty at one time, one in eacho of the rampart things. In total there are 10 orcs. They all have longswords and longbows. There is also a smart ogre that gives the orcs orders. The orcs get 1/2 cover from being in the ramparts. If the ogre sounds the alarm all orcs will go to areas on the side of the fort that have openings for them to shoot their bows at the enemy with. Being at these gives the orcs 3/4 cover. This group is going to get eaten alive in 3 rounds or less with the scenario you describe. Four second-level characters agaisnt 10 orcs and 1 ogre in a fortified position and ranged weapons? Even if you play the orcs as total idiots, half the party will certinaly die. Be prepared for a TPK, because that's what you're going to get.
Lord Santheocles 11-30-04, 04:31 PM	not really, just have the party total defense until their in the fort, have a ring of steel that orcs go against, and just hunt out the ogre at your leisure besides, you haven't specified win conditions, morale counts for a lot in these types of games. Something like if 6+orcs die, the rest try to escape, will negates, +4 bonus if thier within 20ft. of the ogre
BlackFiend 11-30-04, 04:38 PM	Also...perhaps the defenders are exhausted and have lower hp due to an earlier skirmish. They have no cleric and supplies of cure potions are exhausted long ago! The players can have a scrapping chance to make it...unless...well...I was DMing the game. Then they would have no chance at all. TPK all the way and back.
BrianMc223 11-30-04, 04:46 PM	Yea, unless your a total idiot or very good at faking it your pcs have NO chance.
No-man 12-02-04, 10:39 AM	Smart PC's will wait till the Orcs send out a party, ambush the party, then go against the fort using stealth to get in past the defenses.
SilverFoxKnows 12-02-04, 01:43 PM	What domains does the cleric have and what spells does the bard have? A standard Orc is probably going to fail a Will save. That might be enough to get them inside the fort. Or if the Rogue could get close enough to start a fire on the walls, that might distract the others long enough to get the Barb within melee range. Do the Orcs know they're coming? Or is there some chance the PCs could surprise the Orcs? What are the PCs feats? Does anyone have Far Shot? Do the Orcs have Far Shot? Can the PCs outrange the Orcs with Hvy X-bows? Are any of the Orcs more than 1HD? What will the Orcs do if the PCs can take out the Ogre? I think it's possible to take the fort. An experienced group of players who work well together will fair better than a group of newbees who have only gamed together a few times. And there's always the luck of the die. At that level one crit can turn the tables. Frank
BlackFiend 12-02-04, 02:15 PM	At low levels, a crit from an orc is nasty. D12/x3 Great Axe. IMO, the best strategy of the PCs is to burn the place with arrows and hope to take them out at a distance. Rain arrows down on Orcs who man the walls looking for approaching targets. Then PCs advance under the cover of arrows and burn the pallisade walls.
The Soul Collector 12-02-04, 02:24 PM	not really, just have the party total defense until their in the fort, have a ring of steel that orcs go against, and just hunt out the ogre at your leisure besides, you haven't specified win conditions, morale counts for a lot in these types of games. Something like if 6+orcs die, the rest try to escape, will negates, +4 bonus if thier within 20ft. of the ogre Doesn't Total Defense only work while in melee combat? I don't have the books in front of me.
toomre 12-02-04, 02:41 PM	They're just a group, a party, not an army, they don't need siege weapons as they shouldn't be charging the fort openly. If they charge the fort then their deaths will be their own fault. The numbers they're facing in this scenario are not managebale in a head-on collision, but very manageable through divine and conquer. The people who've suggested assassinations, stealth, ambush parties, and setting the fort ablaze from afar, have the right idea in my opinion.
Spankinstein 12-02-04, 04:21 PM	not really, just have the party total defense until their in the fort, have a ring of steel that orcs go against, and just hunt out the ogre at your leisure besides, you haven't specified win conditions, morale counts for a lot in these types of games. Something like if 6+orcs die, the rest try to escape, will negates, +4 bonus if thier within 20ft. of the ogre RIng of Steel???!?!??!?!? I doubt that this group has more than one heavily armored member, the cleric. This group is more designed for quick sneak strikes. Going at the fort as is would be suicide, especially if they have 4 guards within visible range of each other at all times.
PhaedrusXY 12-02-04, 04:27 PM	Doesn't Total Defense only work while in melee combat? I don't have the books in front of me.Short Answer: No. If you want the long form, look it up later. :P