battling undead [Archive] - Wizards Community

battling undead [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
maldron
10-14-07, 07:20 PM I am using a cleric for the first time and have access to spells up to level 2. Our DM has dropped some serious hints we are gonna get involved in some type of undead situatoin and the party is confident in my ability to shine when it happens. I hope i don't let them down with my limited experience with the class. So here is my situation and what I think is a good plan for dealing with undead. Feel free to share you own ideas that would be improvements or just some fun things you've done with undead battles.

First the "hints", we are going to a crypt at night to steal soemthing. The NPC that left the item there had "ability" drain issues and was scared so much we couldn't question him properly. Guards at the castle refuse to go down into the crypts and won't talk about it. I figured this was akin to the DM dropping a neon sign saying "UNDEAD HERE".

So we had two days to prepare. I made a bunch of holy water and handed it out. I'm going to memorize hide from undead, detect undead, protection from evil and consecrate (to help with turning) as my undead line of spells. We have a druid and one of our favorite combo's is me going Balor nimbus and him "raging fire" to it so am a walking fire elemental. We are going to do that as well if needed.

I figured instant swapping of some other spells ( i memorized inky cloud and quick march to escape past the human guards later)into "cures" would give me a super touch attack in a pinch, so no need to go with undead only Direct Damage spells and waste slots.

I'm thinking we go "hide from undead" waltz in, avoid having anything make a check by using "detect undead" to go around the baddies and get teh item we need and bug out super fast with a quick march and an inky cloud if human guards eventually see us leave upstairs. It seems like a good strategy to me.

What do you think?
Ninja_Ferret
10-14-07, 09:22 PM I wouldnt worry too much about Detect undead. Since you know they are going to be there just be carful. Your turn undead is what is going to help you the most.

Also if you have time consencrate (i forget the level) if you have it on a room and just see if you can lure the undead there.

Edit. Also Blunt weapons are a huge bonus.
mvincent
10-15-07, 03:15 PM Blunt weapons are a huge bonus.Only vs. skeletons (and liches)
Rulebook
10-15-07, 06:05 PM keep a morningstar and a sickle around for that.

cure spells are a waste of time against undead. they're better used to heal your friends as THEY fight.
RavenDrake
10-15-07, 07:25 PM Turning/Rebuking will be your friend, especially if you get surrounded, so try to be ready buff your charisma (Eagle's Splendor, for +4 Cha, will give you a +2 bonus on your turning check and turning damage).
maldron
10-15-07, 08:05 PM that's a great idea, is eagles splendor stackable?
RavenDrake
10-15-07, 09:42 PM Nope, sorry. Eagle's Splendor gives you a +4 Enhancement bonus to charisma, so it dosen't stack with itself, nor does it stack with most charisma enhancing items(such as the Cloak of Charisma).
Cifer
10-16-07, 04:53 AM Don't forget the synergy bonus from Knowledge: Religion - you did put 5 ranks into it, didn't you?
maldron
10-16-07, 04:25 PM Don't forget the synergy bonus from Knowledge: Religion - you did put 5 ranks into it, didn't you?

yes i have more than 5 ranks
mvincent
10-16-07, 04:37 PM A circlet of persuasion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#circletofPersuasion) is perfect for boosting turning.
Killydd
10-16-07, 04:49 PM Preparing Lesser Restoration seems an obvious thing, with the hints you've been given, though note the casting time.

Since undead get good will saves, Hide from Undead is unlikely to work against intelligent undead.

For Consecrate, do note the moderate material component, weighing 5 lbs. But with its long duration, it is a solid base to retreat to.

I'd certainly consider a scroll of Searing Light, doing 5d6-5d8 of damage depending on the target.

Spiritual weapon will be more effective than the equivelent cure spell, and has no miss chance on incorporeal creatures, which are otherwise quite bothersome.

Turning at this level is quite potent, although more so at level 4 than 3. You're unlikely to destroy anything larger than a skeleton or zombie, but you should be able to turn most of a combat into a simple rout with a single good turn check. Unfortunately, an incorporeal enemy(shadow or wight, for example) will just flee through walls and come back at you in another minute.

For Detect Undead, remember that most of your crypt walls are going to block it(1 foot of stone). Besides, a little intelligent dungeon design will mean that you do need to go through the worst of it to get to the item.

Absolutely Protection from Evil. The defensive bonuses are just too useful.
eric_generic
10-19-07, 11:24 PM Having a weapon with disruption helps. (Undead make a fort save of 13 or die)

But probably, useless at higher level undead.
DM-Scott
10-20-07, 04:44 AM Actually, a disruption weapon is amazing, even against high level undead. You see, it'll vaporize weenie undead pretty often (most 1-8 HD undead have horrible fortitude saves) and since you have to make a saving throw against each HIT, it essentially becomes the undead-vorpal weapon. Why? Because you always fail a save on a roll of 1. Which means that if you hit 3 times in a round, there's a 15% chance that the undead will die (3/20 chance to roll a natural 1 on its save).

So while high level undead aren't going to be instantly toasted that often, it is a very real threat, regardless of the strength of your undead opponent - as long as they can be hit.
Ieniemienie
10-20-07, 05:58 AM Because you always fail a save on a roll of 1. Which means that if you hit 3 times in a round, there's a 15% chance that the undead will die (3/20 chance to roll a natural 1 on its save).
[wiseass mode] there is a 95% (0.95) chance the undead makes its save, so when rolling three times, the chance is 0.95^3 or 0.857375 chance, which makes a 0.142625 chance of rolling a 1 on one of those saves...

the 14.26% is close to 15%, but not equal[/wiseass mode]
DM-Scott
10-20-07, 04:06 PM Thank you for correcting my math. :D

Either way, the idea still stands. That +1 blunt-spoon of disruption will take out the evil lich better than 10% of the time with three hits. That makes it worthwhile even at high levels. In fact, I wouldn't even bother with the epic version which will weaken your weapon more than help in my opinion. If I recall, the epic version increases the save DC, but it still only works against undead. Plus epic undead are about as likely to make the higher saving throw as they are the regular one, so you're just wasting a lot of + bonuses on your weapon.

If you want a hardcore undead hunting weapon, I'd advise a weapon with the following enhancements.

Begin with a Blunt Weapon (a morning star or flail are good bets), then add the following enhancements to it.
+1 Undead Bane (+2d6 versus undead, +2 to attack & damage)
+2 Disruption (DC 13 or die with each hit)
+2 Holy (+2d6 damage against all evil creatures, and most undead that you would fight are evil)
+1 Ghost Touch (to affect incorporeal undead like wraiths, and ghosts and such)

Tada. For the same price as a +1 Mighty Disruption weapon, you get this monster, which can equally lay the smack down on corporeal and incorporeal undead, both damage wise, and instant death effect, is more useful against non-undead (since holy affects all evil enemies), and caps it all off with a +2 bonus to hit and damage against undead from the bane effect. Grand total...*drum roll*

The Reaper's Flail
The warrior Aelmond Saphiron began a crusade against all undead in the world, just after his brother and father were killed by an alliance of ghouls and wights while traveling through a new caravan route on a buisness trip. The noble knight Aelmond, so angered by the deaths of his loved ones, commissioned a weapon to be made with the help of his order of holy knights. The clerics of the order forged the weapon deep within the heart of the temple, beneath a great spire with many gaps in the tower's ceiling. The rays of sun and moonlight were eternally set upon the flail during its creation process with the help of mirrors, as the blessings and enchantments were laid into the weapon's aura. The clerics blessed the weapon against evil to aid in Aelmond's travels, and heavily enchanted it against the undead. The final result was the Reaper's Flail, named such because Aelmond swore he would gather the undead who killed his family and return them to death.

Aelmond was very successful on his crusade. He destroyed the entire alotment of undead who slew his family members, and then continued his crusade as a wanderer, blowing from town to town, picking up rumors of the undead, and over the course of several years destroyed vampire covens, powerful liches, and laid waste to countless other undead. The end of the tail generally differs based on who's telling it, and even then the story differs from region to region; but the two endings most commonly deemed possible by scholars and loremasters are these:

Aelmond ventured into the heart of an ancient underground complex, led by vicious and evil spirited lich-queen, who controlled and army of undead deep beneath the earth's surfac; where he assaulted the necropolis single handedly, but was eventually overcome by the evil within and discarded the weapon, having been turned into the undead himself by the evil denizens of the complex.

Or...

Aelmond was approached by a beautiful woman who pleaded to him to stop his slaughter of all the undead. She apparently led a necropolis of undead people somewhere hidden away from the rest of the world. Supposedly he discarded the weapon after being convinced to end his crusade by the woman.

Some other stories suggest that he fell in love with the woman in the previous story, while other stories suggest he was turned into an undead but then acended to rule the necropolis as a dark and cruel tryant king.

The Flail has the following properties.
A +1 Holy Undead-Bane Ghost Touch Flail of Disruption.
In addition to the properties of a standard flail:
+1 Magic (+3 against undead)
+2d6 damage versus undead
+2d6 damage against Evil
Undead Hit by the flail must make a DC 13 Fortitude save or be destroyed.
Can be used by and against incoproreal creatures.
Pennarin
10-21-07, 04:57 PM A circlet of persuasion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#circletofPersuasion) is perfect for boosting turning.

There's the more important . . .

Phylactery of Undead Turning
This item is a boon to any character able to turn undead, allowing him to do so as if his class level were four levels higher than it actually is.
Moderate necromancy [good]; CL 10th; Craft Wondrous Item, 10th-level cleric; Price 11,000 gp.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
maldron 10-14-07, 07:20 PM	I am using a cleric for the first time and have access to spells up to level 2. Our DM has dropped some serious hints we are gonna get involved in some type of undead situatoin and the party is confident in my ability to shine when it happens. I hope i don't let them down with my limited experience with the class. So here is my situation and what I think is a good plan for dealing with undead. Feel free to share you own ideas that would be improvements or just some fun things you've done with undead battles. First the "hints", we are going to a crypt at night to steal soemthing. The NPC that left the item there had "ability" drain issues and was scared so much we couldn't question him properly. Guards at the castle refuse to go down into the crypts and won't talk about it. I figured this was akin to the DM dropping a neon sign saying "UNDEAD HERE". So we had two days to prepare. I made a bunch of holy water and handed it out. I'm going to memorize hide from undead, detect undead, protection from evil and consecrate (to help with turning) as my undead line of spells. We have a druid and one of our favorite combo's is me going Balor nimbus and him "raging fire" to it so am a walking fire elemental. We are going to do that as well if needed. I figured instant swapping of some other spells ( i memorized inky cloud and quick march to escape past the human guards later)into "cures" would give me a super touch attack in a pinch, so no need to go with undead only Direct Damage spells and waste slots. I'm thinking we go "hide from undead" waltz in, avoid having anything make a check by using "detect undead" to go around the baddies and get teh item we need and bug out super fast with a quick march and an inky cloud if human guards eventually see us leave upstairs. It seems like a good strategy to me. What do you think?
Ninja_Ferret 10-14-07, 09:22 PM	I wouldnt worry too much about Detect undead. Since you know they are going to be there just be carful. Your turn undead is what is going to help you the most. Also if you have time consencrate (i forget the level) if you have it on a room and just see if you can lure the undead there. Edit. Also Blunt weapons are a huge bonus.
mvincent 10-15-07, 03:15 PM	Blunt weapons are a huge bonus.Only vs. skeletons (and liches)
Rulebook 10-15-07, 06:05 PM	keep a morningstar and a sickle around for that. cure spells are a waste of time against undead. they're better used to heal your friends as THEY fight.
RavenDrake 10-15-07, 07:25 PM	Turning/Rebuking will be your friend, especially if you get surrounded, so try to be ready buff your charisma (Eagle's Splendor, for +4 Cha, will give you a +2 bonus on your turning check and turning damage).
maldron 10-15-07, 08:05 PM	that's a great idea, is eagles splendor stackable?
RavenDrake 10-15-07, 09:42 PM	Nope, sorry. Eagle's Splendor gives you a +4 Enhancement bonus to charisma, so it dosen't stack with itself, nor does it stack with most charisma enhancing items(such as the Cloak of Charisma).
Cifer 10-16-07, 04:53 AM	Don't forget the synergy bonus from Knowledge: Religion - you did put 5 ranks into it, didn't you?
maldron 10-16-07, 04:25 PM	Don't forget the synergy bonus from Knowledge: Religion - you did put 5 ranks into it, didn't you? yes i have more than 5 ranks
mvincent 10-16-07, 04:37 PM	A circlet of persuasion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#circletofPersuasion) is perfect for boosting turning.
Killydd 10-16-07, 04:49 PM	Preparing Lesser Restoration seems an obvious thing, with the hints you've been given, though note the casting time. Since undead get good will saves, Hide from Undead is unlikely to work against intelligent undead. For Consecrate, do note the moderate material component, weighing 5 lbs. But with its long duration, it is a solid base to retreat to. I'd certainly consider a scroll of Searing Light, doing 5d6-5d8 of damage depending on the target. Spiritual weapon will be more effective than the equivelent cure spell, and has no miss chance on incorporeal creatures, which are otherwise quite bothersome. Turning at this level is quite potent, although more so at level 4 than 3. You're unlikely to destroy anything larger than a skeleton or zombie, but you should be able to turn most of a combat into a simple rout with a single good turn check. Unfortunately, an incorporeal enemy(shadow or wight, for example) will just flee through walls and come back at you in another minute. For Detect Undead, remember that most of your crypt walls are going to block it(1 foot of stone). Besides, a little intelligent dungeon design will mean that you do need to go through the worst of it to get to the item. Absolutely Protection from Evil. The defensive bonuses are just too useful.
eric_generic 10-19-07, 11:24 PM	Having a weapon with disruption helps. (Undead make a fort save of 13 or die) But probably, useless at higher level undead.
DM-Scott 10-20-07, 04:44 AM	Actually, a disruption weapon is amazing, even against high level undead. You see, it'll vaporize weenie undead pretty often (most 1-8 HD undead have horrible fortitude saves) and since you have to make a saving throw against each HIT, it essentially becomes the undead-vorpal weapon. Why? Because you always fail a save on a roll of 1. Which means that if you hit 3 times in a round, there's a 15% chance that the undead will die (3/20 chance to roll a natural 1 on its save). So while high level undead aren't going to be instantly toasted that often, it is a very real threat, regardless of the strength of your undead opponent - as long as they can be hit.
Ieniemienie 10-20-07, 05:58 AM	Because you always fail a save on a roll of 1. Which means that if you hit 3 times in a round, there's a 15% chance that the undead will die (3/20 chance to roll a natural 1 on its save). [wiseass mode] there is a 95% (0.95) chance the undead makes its save, so when rolling three times, the chance is 0.95^3 or 0.857375 chance, which makes a 0.142625 chance of rolling a 1 on one of those saves... the 14.26% is close to 15%, but not equal[/wiseass mode]
DM-Scott 10-20-07, 04:06 PM	Thank you for correcting my math. :D Either way, the idea still stands. That +1 blunt-spoon of disruption will take out the evil lich better than 10% of the time with three hits. That makes it worthwhile even at high levels. In fact, I wouldn't even bother with the epic version which will weaken your weapon more than help in my opinion. If I recall, the epic version increases the save DC, but it still only works against undead. Plus epic undead are about as likely to make the higher saving throw as they are the regular one, so you're just wasting a lot of + bonuses on your weapon. If you want a hardcore undead hunting weapon, I'd advise a weapon with the following enhancements. Begin with a Blunt Weapon (a morning star or flail are good bets), then add the following enhancements to it. +1 Undead Bane (+2d6 versus undead, +2 to attack & damage) +2 Disruption (DC 13 or die with each hit) +2 Holy (+2d6 damage against all evil creatures, and most undead that you would fight are evil) +1 Ghost Touch (to affect incorporeal undead like wraiths, and ghosts and such) Tada. For the same price as a +1 Mighty Disruption weapon, you get this monster, which can equally lay the smack down on corporeal and incorporeal undead, both damage wise, and instant death effect, is more useful against non-undead (since holy affects all evil enemies), and caps it all off with a +2 bonus to hit and damage against undead from the bane effect. Grand total...drum roll The Reaper's Flail The warrior Aelmond Saphiron began a crusade against all undead in the world, just after his brother and father were killed by an alliance of ghouls and wights while traveling through a new caravan route on a buisness trip. The noble knight Aelmond, so angered by the deaths of his loved ones, commissioned a weapon to be made with the help of his order of holy knights. The clerics of the order forged the weapon deep within the heart of the temple, beneath a great spire with many gaps in the tower's ceiling. The rays of sun and moonlight were eternally set upon the flail during its creation process with the help of mirrors, as the blessings and enchantments were laid into the weapon's aura. The clerics blessed the weapon against evil to aid in Aelmond's travels, and heavily enchanted it against the undead. The final result was the Reaper's Flail, named such because Aelmond swore he would gather the undead who killed his family and return them to death. Aelmond was very successful on his crusade. He destroyed the entire alotment of undead who slew his family members, and then continued his crusade as a wanderer, blowing from town to town, picking up rumors of the undead, and over the course of several years destroyed vampire covens, powerful liches, and laid waste to countless other undead. The end of the tail generally differs based on who's telling it, and even then the story differs from region to region; but the two endings most commonly deemed possible by scholars and loremasters are these: Aelmond ventured into the heart of an ancient underground complex, led by vicious and evil spirited lich-queen, who controlled and army of undead deep beneath the earth's surfac; where he assaulted the necropolis single handedly, but was eventually overcome by the evil within and discarded the weapon, having been turned into the undead himself by the evil denizens of the complex. Or... Aelmond was approached by a beautiful woman who pleaded to him to stop his slaughter of all the undead. She apparently led a necropolis of undead people somewhere hidden away from the rest of the world. Supposedly he discarded the weapon after being convinced to end his crusade by the woman. Some other stories suggest that he fell in love with the woman in the previous story, while other stories suggest he was turned into an undead but then acended to rule the necropolis as a dark and cruel tryant king. The Flail has the following properties. A +1 Holy Undead-Bane Ghost Touch Flail of Disruption. In addition to the properties of a standard flail: +1 Magic (+3 against undead) +2d6 damage versus undead +2d6 damage against Evil Undead Hit by the flail must make a DC 13 Fortitude save or be destroyed. Can be used by and against incoproreal creatures.
Pennarin 10-21-07, 04:57 PM	A circlet of persuasion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#circletofPersuasion) is perfect for boosting turning. There's the more important . . . Phylactery of Undead Turning This item is a boon to any character able to turn undead, allowing him to do so as if his class level were four levels higher than it actually is. Moderate necromancy [good]; CL 10th; Craft Wondrous Item, 10th-level cleric; Price 11,000 gp.