Bear Cavalry [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bear Cavalry [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ian0311
03-26-07, 04:35 PM Is it possible to ride into battle atop bears?

I need to know for this campaign I'll be running with a friend.
Maraxus
03-26-07, 04:41 PM http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/9422/1155558284500zr5.jpg
...
bobothechimp
03-26-07, 04:44 PM It is, but the bear must be trained (6 weeks of training and a handle animal check, DC 25 IIRC, and the bear must be at least friendly towards the character) and the rider suffers a -5 penalty to all ride checks due to it being a mount not suited for riding.
Ian0311
03-26-07, 04:45 PM Yeah, that's what inspired us, but we wondered if it was even possible to train a bear to carry a rider.

EDIT: Thanks bobo.
tarkin
03-26-07, 05:02 PM I have never seen this in the circus, and it seems the kind of thing I would expect the Circus to do if it was possible. I don't think a bear has the right bone structure to do it.

Keep in mind that bears can stand upright, which means their bones and muscles are not as specialized for quadrupedic movement as a horse, elephant, or similar creature.

Maybe in Stephen Colbert's Nightmares (gay communistic bear riding environmentalists unite)
Aggrenox
03-26-07, 05:07 PM It's likley that druids could do it. Bear companion, (if the bear was willing) could be a bear mount.
draconic_swine
03-26-07, 05:12 PM In real life? Probably not, or else it'd probably have happened at some point in history.

In D&D? Go right ahead. It's a pretty cool concept, actually. Besides, all three types of bear in the SRD have 2 Intelligence, the same as an elephant, and if an elephant is smart enough to be trained as a mount, I don't see why the same couldn't apply for bears.
Tenadros
03-26-07, 08:07 PM If the bone structure is a problem, as it may be. Their spines may not be sturdy enough to support the weight of a three hundred pound man sitting on them (full armor etc.)

Simple solution: Mage-bred bears.

Which raises the question whats the level just past the situation mentioned in the above picture?
BW0222
03-26-07, 08:19 PM Ian0311,

Is it possible to ride into battle atop bears?

Mount rules generally state that the creature must be willing, must be one size larger, and must be able to carry your weight.

A black bear is too small for a human to ride - although halflings and gnomes would be find. Otherwise, a bear meets all these provided that you can train him to do so.

Wild animals can't be trained, so you would need to either rear one from a cub (including finding a cub and some serious handle animal checks), would need to be a druid or ranger's animal companion. Wild animals can't be trained. Once either of these are met, you give it the riding trick, and it is suitable for use as a mount.

Issues with large carnivores as mounts is fairly obvious. Try finding a place in a stable, being allowed in the city walls, or needing to tie it up outside. Again the druid/ranger has the advantage since it is only a free action to try a "down", "come", etc. when some shopkeeper's kid starts sweeping on the porch and the bear thinks the broom is a new toy.
Angatyr
03-26-07, 08:27 PM Bears are ridiculously strong. They weigh almost a tonne (1,500+ lbs) and carrying an extra weight of only 300 lbs doesn't seem likely to phase them.

They can push over redwoods, they should be strong enough to carry a guy.

However, in combat, they stand up and attack with their arms and jaws, so riding would become highly difficult in combat.

As for speed, fastest bear on record was 50Km/h in a sprint, as opposed to a horse sustainable 65Km/h. So bears as a GOOD mount - not really. Bears as a COOL mount - hell yeah!

You should (IMO) be able to use your mount's strength and/or size mod for intimidate checks when riding.
A guy on a horse is dangerous, a guy on a BEAR is down right terrifying, likewise elephant.
ClementWillowbreaker
03-26-07, 08:27 PM Bears should be fine if they follow the above conditions, and wouldn't get the penalty for being poorly suited for riding- after all, a dragon isn't really intended to be a mount, but you see that all the time. The penalty is for a gnome riding the party Fighter, IMO. You do need to pay the extra gold for an exotic saddle.
Watchman
03-27-07, 11:03 AM Personally I suspect a bear wouldn't make a very good cavalry mount even if you discounted stuff like the fundamental intractability and asociality of such large, solitary carnivores and a less than optimal build (rather major reasons a skittish giant rabbit like the horse is the only viable cavalry mount IRL is specifically its coincidentally quite well suited structure and herd psychology). Feeding the critters is a pain and a half by itself, given that meat isn't the most convenient source of nutrition for mounts and the fodder-fed horses alone are a logistical pain in the rear end (although you can always let the teddies munch on fallen enemies of course...).

That aside, the fact that bears prefer standing on their hind legs when they fight things about their own or human size is going to be a major glitch, as it'll be next to impossible for a rider to stay on its back - and conversely training the creature to not do so is going to do a number on its melee effectiveness far as I can figure.

The rider dismounting to fight alongside the big animal sounds like a rather more promising scheme, all things considered. It's not like cavalry that could switch to fighting on foot and back was exactly unusual historically.
paladin2019
03-27-07, 11:10 AM I think it's been pretty much covered, no mechanical problems, but "realism" or verisimulitude is going to take a hit. Same with riding dogs, IMO.
Flan
03-27-07, 11:26 AM You should (IMO) be able to use your mount's strength and/or size mod for intimidate checks when riding.
A guy on a horse is dangerous, a guy on a BEAR is down right terrifying, likewise elephant.

I will no longer be scared of elephant mounted cavalry. 300 has shown me that they'll simply trip and kill themselves.
MerlintheTuna
03-27-07, 12:13 PM Races of Stone includes explanations for using far more bizarre mounts than bears. Find the right saddle and you should be good to go.
Lockwood
03-28-07, 03:35 PM One of our characters is a druid who wild shapes into a brown bear and another character rides him into battle.
lint trap
03-28-07, 04:30 PM Bear cavalry is the signature of the Breland military in Eberron campaigns. Nothin' like a Magebred Bear
Tenadros
03-28-07, 05:42 PM so a friend of mine came up with the idea of a saddle for them. Essentially have something devised so that when they stand up the stirrups rotate to become a fighting platform. You go from sitting to standing in your stirrups.

Difficult and silly sounding, yes, But then again we're talking about riding bears here.

SO basically you would make a ride check when they stand up to also stand up with them. If they were using say medium or light lances (I think thats right. What are the historical lances that aren't the jousting lances but look like really long spears, more of teh 19th century cavalry type than medieval.) they can now be in a standing positionand striking downward with their lances/spears while the bear mauls the daylights out of them.

SInce they are mage bred then give them either the ac bonus or the increased damage and you have some awesome heavy cavalry.
Watchman
03-28-07, 05:56 PM :twitch:
...no. Just no.

(Anf you don't know the difficulties I have not giving a brief lecture on lances and cavalry spears to boot...)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ian0311 03-26-07, 04:35 PM	Is it possible to ride into battle atop bears? I need to know for this campaign I'll be running with a friend.
Maraxus 03-26-07, 04:41 PM	http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/9422/1155558284500zr5.jpg ...
bobothechimp 03-26-07, 04:44 PM	It is, but the bear must be trained (6 weeks of training and a handle animal check, DC 25 IIRC, and the bear must be at least friendly towards the character) and the rider suffers a -5 penalty to all ride checks due to it being a mount not suited for riding.
Ian0311 03-26-07, 04:45 PM	Yeah, that's what inspired us, but we wondered if it was even possible to train a bear to carry a rider. EDIT: Thanks bobo.
tarkin 03-26-07, 05:02 PM	I have never seen this in the circus, and it seems the kind of thing I would expect the Circus to do if it was possible. I don't think a bear has the right bone structure to do it. Keep in mind that bears can stand upright, which means their bones and muscles are not as specialized for quadrupedic movement as a horse, elephant, or similar creature. Maybe in Stephen Colbert's Nightmares (gay communistic bear riding environmentalists unite)
Aggrenox 03-26-07, 05:07 PM	It's likley that druids could do it. Bear companion, (if the bear was willing) could be a bear mount.
draconic_swine 03-26-07, 05:12 PM	In real life? Probably not, or else it'd probably have happened at some point in history. In D&D? Go right ahead. It's a pretty cool concept, actually. Besides, all three types of bear in the SRD have 2 Intelligence, the same as an elephant, and if an elephant is smart enough to be trained as a mount, I don't see why the same couldn't apply for bears.
Tenadros 03-26-07, 08:07 PM	If the bone structure is a problem, as it may be. Their spines may not be sturdy enough to support the weight of a three hundred pound man sitting on them (full armor etc.) Simple solution: Mage-bred bears. Which raises the question whats the level just past the situation mentioned in the above picture?
BW0222 03-26-07, 08:19 PM	Ian0311, Is it possible to ride into battle atop bears? Mount rules generally state that the creature must be willing, must be one size larger, and must be able to carry your weight. A black bear is too small for a human to ride - although halflings and gnomes would be find. Otherwise, a bear meets all these provided that you can train him to do so. Wild animals can't be trained, so you would need to either rear one from a cub (including finding a cub and some serious handle animal checks), would need to be a druid or ranger's animal companion. Wild animals can't be trained. Once either of these are met, you give it the riding trick, and it is suitable for use as a mount. Issues with large carnivores as mounts is fairly obvious. Try finding a place in a stable, being allowed in the city walls, or needing to tie it up outside. Again the druid/ranger has the advantage since it is only a free action to try a "down", "come", etc. when some shopkeeper's kid starts sweeping on the porch and the bear thinks the broom is a new toy.
Angatyr 03-26-07, 08:27 PM	Bears are ridiculously strong. They weigh almost a tonne (1,500+ lbs) and carrying an extra weight of only 300 lbs doesn't seem likely to phase them. They can push over redwoods, they should be strong enough to carry a guy. However, in combat, they stand up and attack with their arms and jaws, so riding would become highly difficult in combat. As for speed, fastest bear on record was 50Km/h in a sprint, as opposed to a horse sustainable 65Km/h. So bears as a GOOD mount - not really. Bears as a COOL mount - hell yeah! You should (IMO) be able to use your mount's strength and/or size mod for intimidate checks when riding. A guy on a horse is dangerous, a guy on a BEAR is down right terrifying, likewise elephant.
ClementWillowbreaker 03-26-07, 08:27 PM	Bears should be fine if they follow the above conditions, and wouldn't get the penalty for being poorly suited for riding- after all, a dragon isn't really intended to be a mount, but you see that all the time. The penalty is for a gnome riding the party Fighter, IMO. You do need to pay the extra gold for an exotic saddle.
Watchman 03-27-07, 11:03 AM	Personally I suspect a bear wouldn't make a very good cavalry mount even if you discounted stuff like the fundamental intractability and asociality of such large, solitary carnivores and a less than optimal build (rather major reasons a skittish giant rabbit like the horse is the only viable cavalry mount IRL is specifically its coincidentally quite well suited structure and herd psychology). Feeding the critters is a pain and a half by itself, given that meat isn't the most convenient source of nutrition for mounts and the fodder-fed horses alone are a logistical pain in the rear end (although you can always let the teddies munch on fallen enemies of course...). That aside, the fact that bears prefer standing on their hind legs when they fight things about their own or human size is going to be a major glitch, as it'll be next to impossible for a rider to stay on its back - and conversely training the creature to not do so is going to do a number on its melee effectiveness far as I can figure. The rider dismounting to fight alongside the big animal sounds like a rather more promising scheme, all things considered. It's not like cavalry that could switch to fighting on foot and back was exactly unusual historically.
paladin2019 03-27-07, 11:10 AM	I think it's been pretty much covered, no mechanical problems, but "realism" or verisimulitude is going to take a hit. Same with riding dogs, IMO.
Flan 03-27-07, 11:26 AM	You should (IMO) be able to use your mount's strength and/or size mod for intimidate checks when riding. A guy on a horse is dangerous, a guy on a BEAR is down right terrifying, likewise elephant. I will no longer be scared of elephant mounted cavalry. 300 has shown me that they'll simply trip and kill themselves.
MerlintheTuna 03-27-07, 12:13 PM	Races of Stone includes explanations for using far more bizarre mounts than bears. Find the right saddle and you should be good to go.
Lockwood 03-28-07, 03:35 PM	One of our characters is a druid who wild shapes into a brown bear and another character rides him into battle.
lint trap 03-28-07, 04:30 PM	Bear cavalry is the signature of the Breland military in Eberron campaigns. Nothin' like a Magebred Bear
Tenadros 03-28-07, 05:42 PM	so a friend of mine came up with the idea of a saddle for them. Essentially have something devised so that when they stand up the stirrups rotate to become a fighting platform. You go from sitting to standing in your stirrups. Difficult and silly sounding, yes, But then again we're talking about riding bears here. SO basically you would make a ride check when they stand up to also stand up with them. If they were using say medium or light lances (I think thats right. What are the historical lances that aren't the jousting lances but look like really long spears, more of teh 19th century cavalry type than medieval.) they can now be in a standing positionand striking downward with their lances/spears while the bear mauls the daylights out of them. SInce they are mage bred then give them either the ac bonus or the increased damage and you have some awesome heavy cavalry.
Watchman 03-28-07, 05:56 PM	:twitch: ...no. Just no. (Anf you don't know the difficulties I have not giving a brief lecture on lances and cavalry spears to boot...)