Beastskin armor? Why would anyone bother? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Beastskin armor? Why would anyone bother? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Pliskit
10-24-05, 07:32 AM When discussing Wild Armor on these boards I had heard several mentions of the Beastskin Armor from the Complete Adventurer.

It was said to be almost as good as Wild Armor, the backdraw being that when wearing Beastskin a wildshaper still has the armor limitations on dex, speed, skillchecks etc. where Wild Armor hasn´t, while the price was quite a lot lower: Beastskin counts as a +2 bonus where Wild Armor counts as a +3.

In our campaign I hadn´t had the chance to run into either version so far, so I hadn´t really checked them out until now. Now we´re walking into Elven territory and the chance to find someone who can craft either of these two armors is finally there, so I was checking the appropriate books, and I found this:

Apart from the setback on dex, speed, skillchecks and so on, a wildshaper has to ALSO give up an extra wildshape per time he wants the bloody Beastskin to even WORK! In my opinion this makes the negative aspects outweigh the price advantage so far, I can´t see why anyone would ever bother to buy it when he/she could get Wild Armor... What is your opinion?
Master of the Wild
10-24-05, 11:23 AM You're bloody right...

I almost forgot that aspect of beastskinning.

Well, what I think?

a +1 beastskin whatever costs 9000 gp
a +1 wild whatever costs 16000 gp

It all depends what you can afford and how long your wildshapes last. At level 8, you can wildshape 3/day and that means you could beastskin-shape once and not-beastskin-shape once.

Considering your local mage can cast mage armour on you once or twice a day, it might or might not be the right choice.

I was thinking of upgrading my armour to beastskin via the dwarven wiz (he's magic crafter), this would cost me/us 4000 gp. Upgrading to wild would cost 7500 gp.

Now that you've mentioned the above ruling, I think I'd rather have a wild armour, although most creature I shape into will not be harmed by the max dex rule.

But think about: you can see beastskin and you can't see wild armour... Given the fact that a druid can also scout in wild armour, but not in beastskin armour...

Then again, compare a +2 wild hide and a +2 beastskin hide... The first is 25000 gp and the second 16000 gp. Difference being 9000 gp. Even when upgrading it via my wizard the difference is 4500 gp.

So, tonight I'm playing D&D and I will ask my DM if we can upgrade a beastskin armour to a wild armour... That way I can benefit from beastskin armour earlier and wild armour later.
DrMorganes
10-24-05, 11:34 AM It burns a use of Wildshape?! I missed that the first time through...

That's rather less than useful, regardless of the cost difference. Perhaps a house rule to eliminate that extra use of Wildshape to activate is in order? Then it would make a decent lower-level alternative to Wild Armor.
Keenath
10-24-05, 12:13 PM I've noticed this before.

My personal fix:
I don't like Wild armor. All the advantages, none of the drawbacks of wearing armor?

I like the idea of Beasthide armor, converting into appropriate barding when you wildshape, but requiring you to actually spend a wildshape to do it is overkill.

So, my opinion: Beasthide (+2) makes armor convert to equivalent barding, no wildshape cost, but you still have limited dex and speed while wearing it, just as you would be if it were purpose-built barding. If you don't want the dex limitation, don't get this sort of armor!
Pliskit
10-24-05, 01:25 PM I have to agree the Wild armor is quite powerfull. No other core class gets this kind of AC buff, no drawbacks, no maintenancecosts. However, it IS kind of harder for a druid to fix it: it must be wooden or dragonscale, no metal allowed and it STILL is a whopping total of +4 you´ll have to invest in it: the armor has to already be +1 to imbue it with the Wild Thang.

I´ll be discussing this one with my DM; if he´s okay with the wild armor, cheers to him. I´ll fix the gp.
If he lets me have a wild armor that´s only usable when I offer an extra wildshape per use it´ll be fine with me for a +2 bonus armor.
Same if he drops a beastskin armor with no charges on using.

But the combination is absurd. Would I not have the money on me to afford Wild Armor, I would hold my breath, save my pennies and dimes and come back later, but I will NOT buy the Beastskin.
Keenath
10-24-05, 01:50 PM Honestly, I rather dislike Wild armor on purely flavor points -- I mean, what? It makes your skin all hard or something? At least the beasthide has a physical manifestation! Heck, I wouldn't mind (flavorwise) if Wild armor turned into a natural armor bonus equal to the armor's base AC, but it's a bit weird to have armor bonuses with no particular source.

I like the beasthide idea, and I think it looks cooler too. ;)
Pliskit
10-24-05, 02:40 PM My inner powerplayer is REALLY struggling with my inner roleplayer on this one... *gnarls teeth* Arrrr... okay. You ARE right, flavorwise the beastskin is way better.
Master of the Wild
10-25-05, 07:49 AM The backdraw being that when wearing Beastskin a wildshaper still has the armor limitations on dex, speed, skillchecks etc. where Wild Armor hasn´t, while the price was quite a lot lower: Beastskin counts as a +2 bonus where Wild Armor counts as a +3.

Hmz... Take a look at the text from the SRD:

Wild: The wearer of a suit of armor or a shield with this ability preserves his armor bonus (and any enhancement bonus) while in a wild shape. Armor and shields with this ability usually appear to be made covered in leaf patterns. While the wearer is in a wild shape, the armor cannot be seen.

Moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, baleful polymorph; Price +3 bonus.

Where does this say wild armour has no armour check penalty, no movement decrease AND no limitation on dex?

Nowhere, exactly.

So why do you think and I thought its powerful or perhaps overpowered? Since we read (present or past time, depends on the view) it wrong.

Clearly, if for 16400 gp you can have a +1 wild dragonhide breastplate while in wildshape = AC +5, that's still cheaper than getting a bracers of armour +5 at 25000 gp.

Then again, take bracers of armour +3 and a ring of protection +2 and you're done for 15000 gp, but you can't beat the deal of wild armour when creating it yourself:

You only need caster level 9th and baleful polymorph.
For crafting rings, you'll need level 12. And if you want to create a bracers of armour +5, the crafter needs to be level 10.

And all in all, if you've got a ring of protection, halo of sand will not stack. Then again, if you dex is high enough a cat's grace won't stack with your wild armour.

Anyway, the difference between wild and beastskin is:
- beastskin armour eats a wild shape use, wild not
- beastskin armour is visible, wild armour not
- beastskin armour can be crafted at level 13, wild armour at level 9 (!)

All, in all, for me, I want to upgrade my +1 dragonhide 'chain shirt' to a +1 wild dragonhide 'chain shirt'.

And if you don't agree with me, at least agree that you can view the wild-issue both ways: either nothing is said about acp, speed and max dex, so you don't have those, or nothings is said about it, so they don't change.

Might as well read the interpretation for wild shape wrong: 'The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back'.
The following sentence is a logical interpretation of the latter: 'The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level or the effect lasts until she changes back'.
Therefore we can choose either sentence and the following sentence is equivalent with the first:
= 'The effect lasts until she changes back'. Clearly that's a wrong interpretation, but logically seen it is correct...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pliskit 10-24-05, 07:32 AM	When discussing Wild Armor on these boards I had heard several mentions of the Beastskin Armor from the Complete Adventurer. It was said to be almost as good as Wild Armor, the backdraw being that when wearing Beastskin a wildshaper still has the armor limitations on dex, speed, skillchecks etc. where Wild Armor hasn´t, while the price was quite a lot lower: Beastskin counts as a +2 bonus where Wild Armor counts as a +3. In our campaign I hadn´t had the chance to run into either version so far, so I hadn´t really checked them out until now. Now we´re walking into Elven territory and the chance to find someone who can craft either of these two armors is finally there, so I was checking the appropriate books, and I found this: Apart from the setback on dex, speed, skillchecks and so on, a wildshaper has to ALSO give up an extra wildshape per time he wants the bloody Beastskin to even WORK! In my opinion this makes the negative aspects outweigh the price advantage so far, I can´t see why anyone would ever bother to buy it when he/she could get Wild Armor... What is your opinion?
Master of the Wild 10-24-05, 11:23 AM	You're bloody right... I almost forgot that aspect of beastskinning. Well, what I think? a +1 beastskin whatever costs 9000 gp a +1 wild whatever costs 16000 gp It all depends what you can afford and how long your wildshapes last. At level 8, you can wildshape 3/day and that means you could beastskin-shape once and not-beastskin-shape once. Considering your local mage can cast mage armour on you once or twice a day, it might or might not be the right choice. I was thinking of upgrading my armour to beastskin via the dwarven wiz (he's magic crafter), this would cost me/us 4000 gp. Upgrading to wild would cost 7500 gp. Now that you've mentioned the above ruling, I think I'd rather have a wild armour, although most creature I shape into will not be harmed by the max dex rule. But think about: you can see beastskin and you can't see wild armour... Given the fact that a druid can also scout in wild armour, but not in beastskin armour... Then again, compare a +2 wild hide and a +2 beastskin hide... The first is 25000 gp and the second 16000 gp. Difference being 9000 gp. Even when upgrading it via my wizard the difference is 4500 gp. So, tonight I'm playing D&D and I will ask my DM if we can upgrade a beastskin armour to a wild armour... That way I can benefit from beastskin armour earlier and wild armour later.
DrMorganes 10-24-05, 11:34 AM	It burns a use of Wildshape?! I missed that the first time through... That's rather less than useful, regardless of the cost difference. Perhaps a house rule to eliminate that extra use of Wildshape to activate is in order? Then it would make a decent lower-level alternative to Wild Armor.
Keenath 10-24-05, 12:13 PM	I've noticed this before. My personal fix: I don't like Wild armor. All the advantages, none of the drawbacks of wearing armor? I like the idea of Beasthide armor, converting into appropriate barding when you wildshape, but requiring you to actually spend a wildshape to do it is overkill. So, my opinion: Beasthide (+2) makes armor convert to equivalent barding, no wildshape cost, but you still have limited dex and speed while wearing it, just as you would be if it were purpose-built barding. If you don't want the dex limitation, don't get this sort of armor!
Pliskit 10-24-05, 01:25 PM	I have to agree the Wild armor is quite powerfull. No other core class gets this kind of AC buff, no drawbacks, no maintenancecosts. However, it IS kind of harder for a druid to fix it: it must be wooden or dragonscale, no metal allowed and it STILL is a whopping total of +4 you´ll have to invest in it: the armor has to already be +1 to imbue it with the Wild Thang. I´ll be discussing this one with my DM; if he´s okay with the wild armor, cheers to him. I´ll fix the gp. If he lets me have a wild armor that´s only usable when I offer an extra wildshape per use it´ll be fine with me for a +2 bonus armor. Same if he drops a beastskin armor with no charges on using. But the combination is absurd. Would I not have the money on me to afford Wild Armor, I would hold my breath, save my pennies and dimes and come back later, but I will NOT buy the Beastskin.
Keenath 10-24-05, 01:50 PM	Honestly, I rather dislike Wild armor on purely flavor points -- I mean, what? It makes your skin all hard or something? At least the beasthide has a physical manifestation! Heck, I wouldn't mind (flavorwise) if Wild armor turned into a natural armor bonus equal to the armor's base AC, but it's a bit weird to have armor bonuses with no particular source. I like the beasthide idea, and I think it looks cooler too. ;)
Pliskit 10-24-05, 02:40 PM	My inner powerplayer is REALLY struggling with my inner roleplayer on this one... gnarls teeth Arrrr... okay. You ARE right, flavorwise the beastskin is way better.
Master of the Wild 10-25-05, 07:49 AM	The backdraw being that when wearing Beastskin a wildshaper still has the armor limitations on dex, speed, skillchecks etc. where Wild Armor hasn´t, while the price was quite a lot lower: Beastskin counts as a +2 bonus where Wild Armor counts as a +3. Hmz... Take a look at the text from the SRD: Wild: The wearer of a suit of armor or a shield with this ability preserves his armor bonus (and any enhancement bonus) while in a wild shape. Armor and shields with this ability usually appear to be made covered in leaf patterns. While the wearer is in a wild shape, the armor cannot be seen. Moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, baleful polymorph; Price +3 bonus. Where does this say wild armour has no armour check penalty, no movement decrease AND no limitation on dex? Nowhere, exactly. So why do you think and I thought its powerful or perhaps overpowered? Since we read (present or past time, depends on the view) it wrong. Clearly, if for 16400 gp you can have a +1 wild dragonhide breastplate while in wildshape = AC +5, that's still cheaper than getting a bracers of armour +5 at 25000 gp. Then again, take bracers of armour +3 and a ring of protection +2 and you're done for 15000 gp, but you can't beat the deal of wild armour when creating it yourself: You only need caster level 9th and baleful polymorph. For crafting rings, you'll need level 12. And if you want to create a bracers of armour +5, the crafter needs to be level 10. And all in all, if you've got a ring of protection, halo of sand will not stack. Then again, if you dex is high enough a cat's grace won't stack with your wild armour. Anyway, the difference between wild and beastskin is: - beastskin armour eats a wild shape use, wild not - beastskin armour is visible, wild armour not - beastskin armour can be crafted at level 13, wild armour at level 9 (!) All, in all, for me, I want to upgrade my +1 dragonhide 'chain shirt' to a +1 wild dragonhide 'chain shirt'. And if you don't agree with me, at least agree that you can view the wild-issue both ways: either nothing is said about acp, speed and max dex, so you don't have those, or nothings is said about it, so they don't change. Might as well read the interpretation for wild shape wrong: 'The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back'. The following sentence is a logical interpretation of the latter: 'The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level or the effect lasts until she changes back'. Therefore we can choose either sentence and the following sentence is equivalent with the first: = 'The effect lasts until she changes back'. Clearly that's a wrong interpretation, but logically seen it is correct...