Post/Author/DateTime	Post
masamunekaigen 08-28-07, 02:41 AM	...won't let me post: Am I the only one that didn'tmuch care for the 4ed battle sample versus the dragon? I'm sure it plays better than it sounds, but that's a heck of a lot of dragon versus a bunch of players that seem unable to do anything caparative manuvers-wise. And a fighter dealing 500 damge on a regular attack? WTF? I;m not sure I'm gonna like 4ed, it doesn't seem as tactical.
Ryll 08-28-07, 03:19 AM	I was not that impressed with the battle either... time will tell. I have heard others mention the fighter doing 500+ damage as well. I did not read the battle that way. I just assumed that this was a round in the middle of battle, not the first round, and that the fighter's good hit was what managed to finally get the dragon below 500 hit points, which happens to be around half of the dragon's hitpoints (triggering that immediate action thing). I figured we just didn't see the earlier rounds that had damaged the dragon. I do not like the whole 1000 hp+ creature. It seems that this is the future or DnD, where each edition has more hitpoints, which require each creature to do more damage, etc, etc. Again, time will tell, and maybe when everything is out and published I will find the game more fun then ever before. As for a teaser to whet our apetites, I felt the dragon fight fell short.
T_Stalker 08-28-07, 12:19 PM	Sorry for asking but, where can I look into that battle sample ?
TheOinodaemon 08-28-07, 05:33 PM	I think the example was supposed to take place in the middle of the fight. It was ok. Dragons seem to be tough, I would prefer they stay smart as well.
Colmarr 08-28-07, 11:22 PM	I also expect that the fighter's blow happened to come just as the dragon was nearing 500hp, rather than dealing 500+ damage. I have seen some mention that one possibility is that higher level characters will do more damage per attack rather than having more attacks. Apparently that's the way it works in SW Saga Edition, which many people see as a base building blocks of D&D 4E. If that's true, it will certainly speed up combat rounds. As for the fight itself, I'm curious about the "immediate actions" that the dragon is taking, and whether they are simply AoOs by another name. The one in the first paragraph comes during the dragons turn, so it's clearly not. However, the second one against the rogue (bullet point #3) could easily be an AoO as the rogue moves in (remember he was knocked back 10 ft). Some interesting questions are raised, but as expected, not too many answers given :)
Nephlite 08-29-07, 07:36 PM	...won't let me post: Am I the only one that didn'tmuch care for the 4ed battle sample versus the dragon? I'm sure it plays better than it sounds, but that's a heck of a lot of dragon versus a bunch of players that seem unable to do anything caparative manuvers-wise. And a fighter dealing 500 damge on a regular attack? WTF? I;m not sure I'm gonna like 4ed, it doesn't seem as tactical. So a Frenzied Berserk can do that. What you make it sound impossible. Hedck, you can deal 700+ in 3.5.
Vharuck 08-29-07, 07:52 PM	The thing is, that example battle seemed to be trying to prove how tough dragons will be. But, they're already very difficult in the current edition if played correctly: superhumanly intelligent, wise, experienced from a life longer than any race, and possessing of innate magical abilities. Not only that but they're huge, have tons of hit points, great natural armor, and deadly attacks. Oh, and their breath can kill. And they fly. If the DM uses the dragon correctly, the players will narrowly win if at all.