Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Vaalingrade Ashland 09-05-06, 08:05 PM	Whip One handed, exotic melee 1d3 x2 slashing 15ft reach Price: 1gp Weight: 2lb. A whip deals nonlethal damage. It deals no damage to any creature with an armor bonus of +1 or higher or a natural armor bonus of +3 or higher. The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you don’t threaten the area into which you can make an attack. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, you can use it against foes anywhere within your reach (including adjacent foes). Using a whip provokes an attack of opportunity, just as if you had used a ranged weapon. You can make trip attacks with a whip. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the whip to avoid being tripped. When using a whip, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an opponent (including the roll to keep from being disarmed if the attack fails). You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a whip sized for you, even though it isn’t a light weapon for you. That's the current whip from the SRD. And Exotic weapon that not only does very low subdual damage, but can't penetrate armor or natural armor. Even a housecat's natural attacks penetrate armor. This isn't a thread about if this whip is good or bad however, but one to discuss the balance of the one below. I want to flat replace whips in my CS with the combat whip. The Combat whip loses the ability to atac adjacent foes in exchange for an actual damage dice and the loss of the armor penalty. Its also slightly more expensive, but this is neglegable. Combat Whip Light, exotic melee 1d4 x2 slashing 15ft reach Price: 10gp Weight: 3lb. A whip deals nonlethal damage. The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you don’t threaten the area into which you can make an attack. Using a whip provokes an attack of opportunity, just as if you had used a ranged weapon. You can make trip attacks with a whip. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the whip to avoid being tripped. When using a whip, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an opponent (including the roll to keep from being disarmed if the attack fails).
andinel 09-05-06, 08:34 PM	Another option could be the whip-dagger, from the Arms and Equipment guide. It deals lethal damage and isn't restricted to the +3 armor regulation.
Vaalingrade Ashland 09-05-06, 09:09 PM	See, I don't see a whip killing anyone in battle though. A tied and presented victim, yeah, but not a guy you're cracking at. Besides, the dagger tied to a whip thing is hokey.
Kn1ves 09-05-06, 09:59 PM	Whips arn't meant to deal actual damage. They're supposed to be used for the disarm and trip factors. This isn't to say that I haven't had characters use the Whip Dagger before but the true use for the real whip is for it's other abilites.
Vaalingrade Ashland 09-05-06, 10:28 PM	Whips arn't meant to deal actual damage. They're supposed to be used for the disarm and trip factors. This isn't to say that I haven't had characters use the Whip Dagger before but the true use for the real whip is for it's other abilites. 'real use' as in in game use. What I'm doing here is making it a weapon instead of a tool that wound up in the weapons section by accident.
Seerow 09-05-06, 10:46 PM	It still seems pretty weak for an exotic weapon. I mean, I guess you won't find much better than a 15 ft reach, but it still can't really -do- anything.
Shinryouga 09-06-06, 03:53 AM	Honestly, if the cracker on a whip is replaced with a small sharp peice of metal, a whip can leave frightening injuries. And the armor/natural armor restriction is dumb, its like saying that a short sword can't get through natural armor of 5, and a greatsword cant get through 15. The whole point of the relationship between armor and the D&D combat system is an abstract of "getting past the armor". That may be slamming through it or going around through a weak point, or hitting the soft underbelly. The whip's restriction is almost a violation of the spirit of the D&D combat system. Sorry if I got a little preachy there at the end. I have a soft spot for whips myself. (Its my lower back!) Just my two coppers.
boozerker 09-06-06, 05:49 AM	The restriction is understandable, but really it should be a DM call. If the creature isn't 100% covered in natural armor (for example its face), then an opponent should be able to make a called shot and deal damage.
Azezel 09-06-06, 07:45 AM	No called shots please! That way lies madness. Form my money, the standard whip is fine (I mean, my Ranger uses one for one thing). The whip dagger is just silly. The tip of a whip is already moving at supersonic speed, adding a blade to the end is not merely pointless, but would actually reduce the whip's effectiveness. The Armour restriction thing, whilst slightly anoying is hardly a bg concern. The whip's damage ability is so small that one never chooses a whip to hurt someone anyway. XWP (Whip) is definately worth it to trip and disarm at 15 foot range though.
Tetsubo 09-06-06, 11:21 AM	I remember an old SF book, I think it was called -Bug Wars- that had a very nasty whip like weapon. It used a whip made of braided steel cable that had a 2" (2 inch) diameter solid steel ball welded onto the tip. It had the range of a standard D&D whip, did actual damage and was great at cracking open chitin. I think I wrote up some 1E stats for it... though where that note book is, is a moderate mystery... a time prior to my owning a computer...
fatal error 09-06-06, 11:26 AM	I think either version is fine balance-wise. The only real difference is a move from a nonexistant damage to a negligible damage. The lack of the ability to threaten will keep it out of the hands of reach/trip/disarmers, and its bad damage makes no one else want to use it except for a 15ft range trip or disarm, the way it should be.
boozerker 09-06-06, 01:18 PM	It needs something extra. When you crack the whip, gain a +2 bonus to Intimidate checks. That's actually realistic come think of it.
Vaalingrade Ashland 09-06-06, 01:39 PM	How about: "A whip can be treated as 15ft of rope, granting a +4 bonus to use rope checks to secure the whip as if it were a grappling hook."