Beholder shield [Archive] - Wizards Community

Beholder shield [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shadowbane
11-26-04, 07:40 PM My brother wants to have a beholder eye shield created. He wants the shield to have a beholder ( main eye ) eye in the center of the shield that still gives off that lovely anti-magic ray. How would he go about getting this done? I think that the beholders soul would have to be contained within the shield itself making it a intel item. I was thinking the shield would have a command word to activate and deactivate the eye's power. We would ask the DM, but we are keeping this our lil secret until we can hash the logistics of it. Hell lets also create a helm with active Medusa eyes to boot :)
masterofmayhem
11-26-04, 09:19 PM My brother wants to have a beholder eye shield created. He wants the shield to have a beholder ( main eye ) eye in the center of the shield that still gives off that lovely anti-magic ray. How would he go about getting this done? I think that the beholders soul would have to be contained within the shield itself making it a intel item. I was thinking the shield would have a command word to activate and deactivate the eye's power. We would ask the DM, but we are keeping this our lil secret until we can hash the logistics of it. Hell lets also create a helm with active Medusa eyes to boot :)
The beholder's magical rays come from their own inner power, not necesarily their eye's power. The eye is more of a conduit for that power. To create these items, you would need nothing more than a caster with the appropriate spell (antimagic field, most likely) and feat (Create Magical Arms and Armor).

I'm not sure about the price, but I think it would be 132,000 gp. 6 x 11 x 2000(??) for CL x SL x [whatever type of activation]. I'm not sure what the activation price is, though.

EDIT: Actually, I believe it would be [CL] x [SL] x 1800(for "command word activated") x [(number of uses per day)/(5)]. Assume 3 uses per day and it would be:

6 x 11 x 1800 x (3/5) = 71,280 gp

Unlimited uses I believe would be:

6 x 11 x 2000 x 1.5 (because the spell has a duration of ten minutes per level) = 198,000 gp.

I think. Heh. :thinks:
BloodGod
11-26-04, 09:24 PM Have to contain slay the Beholder (or amazingly talk it into being trapped for all eternity in an object). Trap its soul in the sheild. Preserve the skin/eye. Get the skin/eye somehow placed onto the sheild so that it would stick. Simply stretching it may work. But, then a single good slash and the flesh'll snap loosen. Keep in mind a Beholder's evil, or most often thought of as evil. That means if his character is good, an alignment change would be in his future. And, beware of paladins. I'd say that the activation of the eye itself would be part of the intellegent item's power. The item would have so many powers. It'd probably have Inflict Light Wounds x/day and Anti Magic Ray 1/day.

Or you could just make it a normal item like mayhem said.

This kind of sparked an idea for a campaign. Thanks.

-BG
Shadowbane
11-27-04, 01:03 PM The beholder's magical rays come from their own inner power, not necesarily their eye's power. The eye is more of a conduit for that power. To create these items, you would need nothing more than a caster with the appropriate spell (antimagic field, most likely) and feat (Create Magical Arms and Armor).

I'm not sure about the price, but I think it would be 132,000 gp. 6 x 11 x 2000(??) for CL x SL x [whatever type of activation]. I'm not sure what the activation price is, though.

EDIT: Actually, I believe it would be [CL] x [SL] x 1800(for "command word activated") x [(number of uses per day)/(5)]. Assume 3 uses per day and it would be:

6 x 11 x 1800 x (3/5) = 71,280 gp

Unlimited uses I believe would be:

6 x 11 x 2000 x 1.5 (because the spell has a duration of ten minutes per level) = 198,000 gp.

I think. Heh. :thinks:

We actually want to have a beholder encased magically in the shield. Although your response would have to be the second option and is most welcome reply. I am mainly looking for how we could go about imprisoning it in the shield itself. My brother is a chaotic good fighter but using an evil creature for a good purpose is the ultimate irony. I dont think the shield would make my bro evil since wearing black dreagon plate, made from a black dragon you have slain doesnt make one evil and the plate still caries some of the dragons resistances through his hide.
masterofmayhem
11-27-04, 01:55 PM We actually want to have a beholder encased magically in the shield. Although your response would have to be the second option and is most welcome reply. I am mainly looking for how we could go about imprisoning it in the shield itself. My brother is a chaotic good fighter but using an evil creature for a good purpose is the ultimate irony. I dont think the shield would make my bro evil since wearing black dreagon plate, made from a black dragon you have slain doesnt make one evil and the plate still caries some of the dragons resistances through his hide.

OK, I understand what you are saying you want, but you must realize that trapping a creature's soul and using its powers is not supported by the letter of the rules. What it appears you are doing is attempting to circumvent the rules by not using the proper magic item creation costs by using a beholder's soul. Ignoring the fact that that would not work anyway, as the beholder needs to have control of its body to use its eye rays, you still have to pay the price for the magic item, unless your DM says otherwise. The way I see it, you have several choices.

1) Have the shield created as a magic item with the ability to let lose an antimagic cone or field as per the pricing guidelines.

2) Somehow trap the beholder's powers within the shield in order to use them. To do this, I would suggest that you must capture a live beholder and take it to a mage of, say, 15th level or so. The mage then spends some time trapping the powers of the beholder in the shield. This just happens to cost the exact same as making the item would.

3) Use the fact that the beholder is trapped inside the item as nothing more than flavor, and follow the pricing guidelines for the item's creation.

4) Have the item created as an intelligent item. This would end up costing far more than a standard item, and would also result in the fighter wielding the shield to be practically dominated by the beholder.
Melpomene
11-27-04, 02:00 PM 6 x 11 x 2000 x 1.5 (because the spell has a duration of ten minutes per level) = 198,000 gp.

I think. Heh. :thinks:

Sounds about right. I wouldn't let a payer use it for much less than that.
obrysii
11-27-04, 04:23 PM the Draconomicon has an item in it that is a +1 tower shield that can 1/day cast Antimagic Field for around 27,000gps.
Shadowbane
11-28-04, 02:28 PM We are by no means attempting to circumvent the D&D process, and we know the shield is gonna cost serious gold to create but it has role playing value for our campaign we are in. The DM will prolly set tons of baddies against us for making the shield or maybe even send beholders after us to rescue thier kin, I am not sure but I just wanted to see if it could be done.

As far as going outside the rules, not sure about that. There are many, artifacts/magic items with powerful people/creatures captive inside them giving the owner powers or knowledge that that creature had in its life.
masterofmayhem
11-28-04, 09:40 PM We are by no means attempting to circumvent the D&D process, and we know the shield is gonna cost serious gold to create but it has role playing value for our campaign we are in. The DM will prolly set tons of baddies against us for making the shield or maybe even send beholders after us to rescue thier kin, I am not sure but I just wanted to see if it could be done.

Sorry for the bad attitude. What I'm trying to say is that you just use the price according to the pricing guide, and that all the rest is really only fluff for role-playing purposes. Attempting to use the fluff as the basis of the item doesn't really make sense, especially in that there are no spells (at least none that I know of) that could do what you want to do. Hence, it would be some sort of Craft feat.

As far as going outside the rules, not sure about that. There are many, artifacts/magic items with powerful people/creatures captive inside them giving the owner powers or knowledge that that creature had in its life.
Ah, my mistake then. I had never heard of any, (or, rather, not any that work the way you want them to) items/spells that do such a thing. Do you think you could post some examples so that we could use them as a basis for the item?
Shadowbane
11-28-04, 11:26 PM Masterofmayhem,

No apologies needed. I appreciate any reply that is helpful and your reply was just that. As far as intel items there are a few in the DMG 3.5, one that comes to mind is a war hammer that has a high level fighter or cleric encased in it (willingly) and gives the user armor smithing bonuses as well as making it a holy weapon. I will look up a few of these items and post them here, before I make a fool of myself and get the facts wrong. I am heading for bed, so I will post them tomorrow after work.
masterofmayhem
11-28-04, 11:48 PM a war hammer that has a high level fighter or cleric encased in it (willingly) and gives the user armor smithing bonuses as well as making it a holy weapon.
The problem with that (which I had stated earlier and which you just now implied, purposefully, I assume) is that the cleric was willing. Any unwilling beholder you trap is going to be far from helpful; in fact, he will try to kill the PC's group at every possible opportunity. The fact that the beholder won't want to help you is the problem. If you could either find a willing one (yeah, right ;)) or force one to help you, then you could do it. You could use a helm of reverse alignment, I suppose. Then just get your bard to throw in his fascinate, suggestion, and +40 diplomacy. :)
incubus
11-28-04, 11:58 PM Have a mage create a simulacrum of a beholder and totally foul up his disguise check.

Et voila - one beholder copy shaped like a shield.

Now you just need to make it so he can survive incoming attacks...
Shadowbane
11-30-04, 05:50 PM The problem with that (which I had stated earlier and which you just now implied, purposefully, I assume) is that the cleric was willing. Any unwilling beholder you trap is going to be far from helpful; in fact, he will try to kill the PC's group at every possible opportunity. The fact that the beholder won't want to help you is the problem. If you could either find a willing one (yeah, right ;)) or force one to help you, then you could do it. You could use a helm of reverse alignment, I suppose. Then just get your bard to throw in his fascinate, suggestion, and +40 diplomacy. :)

Maybe if we offered a lifetime supply of chocolate chip cookies, I hear Beholders are very found of cookies. Seriously now, maybe the beholder can be made to serve him? Failure to obey would result in torment and pain. Hmmm, gotta think further on this one. Thanks for the replies.
masterofmayhem
11-30-04, 07:54 PM Geas might work, although the beholder would scoff at a paltry 3d6 damage . . .

Other than that, there is always the option of creating a spell that does what you're looking for. A variation of Trap the Soul perhaps. Or another spell to make him serve you (Greater Geas?).
Shadowbane
11-30-04, 07:57 PM Geas might work, although the beholder would scoff at a paltry 3d6 damage . . .

Other than that, there is always the option of creating a spell that does what you're looking for. A variation of Trap the Soul perhaps. Or another spell to make him serve you (Greater Geas?).

What about a permanent charm monster?
masterofmayhem
11-30-04, 08:25 PM Well, Charm Monster only makes them your friend. I do not have a friend on this earth who would be willing to trap their soul for eternity for me just so I could "fight better." And the reverse is also true. ;)

No, I think something more powerful is in order. Perhaps a sort of dominate? Does dominate allow one to use their special abilities?
whitelightsaber
12-01-04, 10:47 AM There is a way to do this thats totally legal...but it requires a non wizards dnd book called "Feats" and you would have to spend a feat to do it. you would also need some way to use antimagic field on the beholder (ie beating it at its own game). I cant remember what its called but its in the quest feats section, it lets you steal a power from a monster permanetly, so long as that monster is in some way alive (like trapping his soul in the shield to keep him alive in the sheild forever), and if it came down to killing the beholder and you gave him the choice of immortality versus death he would probobly agree to go in the sheild, giving you the antimagic eye in a sheild you are looking for.

again...it requires that other book so i dont know how well that sticks up in ur campain but i figured it was worth a shot.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shadowbane 11-26-04, 07:40 PM	My brother wants to have a beholder eye shield created. He wants the shield to have a beholder ( main eye ) eye in the center of the shield that still gives off that lovely anti-magic ray. How would he go about getting this done? I think that the beholders soul would have to be contained within the shield itself making it a intel item. I was thinking the shield would have a command word to activate and deactivate the eye's power. We would ask the DM, but we are keeping this our lil secret until we can hash the logistics of it. Hell lets also create a helm with active Medusa eyes to boot :)
masterofmayhem 11-26-04, 09:19 PM	My brother wants to have a beholder eye shield created. He wants the shield to have a beholder ( main eye ) eye in the center of the shield that still gives off that lovely anti-magic ray. How would he go about getting this done? I think that the beholders soul would have to be contained within the shield itself making it a intel item. I was thinking the shield would have a command word to activate and deactivate the eye's power. We would ask the DM, but we are keeping this our lil secret until we can hash the logistics of it. Hell lets also create a helm with active Medusa eyes to boot :) The beholder's magical rays come from their own inner power, not necesarily their eye's power. The eye is more of a conduit for that power. To create these items, you would need nothing more than a caster with the appropriate spell (antimagic field, most likely) and feat (Create Magical Arms and Armor). I'm not sure about the price, but I think it would be 132,000 gp. 6 x 11 x 2000(??) for CL x SL x [whatever type of activation]. I'm not sure what the activation price is, though. EDIT: Actually, I believe it would be [CL] x [SL] x 1800(for "command word activated") x [(number of uses per day)/(5)]. Assume 3 uses per day and it would be: 6 x 11 x 1800 x (3/5) = 71,280 gp Unlimited uses I believe would be: 6 x 11 x 2000 x 1.5 (because the spell has a duration of ten minutes per level) = 198,000 gp. I think. Heh. :thinks:
BloodGod 11-26-04, 09:24 PM	Have to contain slay the Beholder (or amazingly talk it into being trapped for all eternity in an object). Trap its soul in the sheild. Preserve the skin/eye. Get the skin/eye somehow placed onto the sheild so that it would stick. Simply stretching it may work. But, then a single good slash and the flesh'll snap loosen. Keep in mind a Beholder's evil, or most often thought of as evil. That means if his character is good, an alignment change would be in his future. And, beware of paladins. I'd say that the activation of the eye itself would be part of the intellegent item's power. The item would have so many powers. It'd probably have Inflict Light Wounds x/day and Anti Magic Ray 1/day. Or you could just make it a normal item like mayhem said. This kind of sparked an idea for a campaign. Thanks. -BG
Shadowbane 11-27-04, 01:03 PM	The beholder's magical rays come from their own inner power, not necesarily their eye's power. The eye is more of a conduit for that power. To create these items, you would need nothing more than a caster with the appropriate spell (antimagic field, most likely) and feat (Create Magical Arms and Armor). I'm not sure about the price, but I think it would be 132,000 gp. 6 x 11 x 2000(??) for CL x SL x [whatever type of activation]. I'm not sure what the activation price is, though. EDIT: Actually, I believe it would be [CL] x [SL] x 1800(for "command word activated") x [(number of uses per day)/(5)]. Assume 3 uses per day and it would be: 6 x 11 x 1800 x (3/5) = 71,280 gp Unlimited uses I believe would be: 6 x 11 x 2000 x 1.5 (because the spell has a duration of ten minutes per level) = 198,000 gp. I think. Heh. :thinks: We actually want to have a beholder encased magically in the shield. Although your response would have to be the second option and is most welcome reply. I am mainly looking for how we could go about imprisoning it in the shield itself. My brother is a chaotic good fighter but using an evil creature for a good purpose is the ultimate irony. I dont think the shield would make my bro evil since wearing black dreagon plate, made from a black dragon you have slain doesnt make one evil and the plate still caries some of the dragons resistances through his hide.
masterofmayhem 11-27-04, 01:55 PM	We actually want to have a beholder encased magically in the shield. Although your response would have to be the second option and is most welcome reply. I am mainly looking for how we could go about imprisoning it in the shield itself. My brother is a chaotic good fighter but using an evil creature for a good purpose is the ultimate irony. I dont think the shield would make my bro evil since wearing black dreagon plate, made from a black dragon you have slain doesnt make one evil and the plate still caries some of the dragons resistances through his hide. OK, I understand what you are saying you want, but you must realize that trapping a creature's soul and using its powers is not supported by the letter of the rules. What it appears you are doing is attempting to circumvent the rules by not using the proper magic item creation costs by using a beholder's soul. Ignoring the fact that that would not work anyway, as the beholder needs to have control of its body to use its eye rays, you still have to pay the price for the magic item, unless your DM says otherwise. The way I see it, you have several choices. 1) Have the shield created as a magic item with the ability to let lose an antimagic cone or field as per the pricing guidelines. 2) Somehow trap the beholder's powers within the shield in order to use them. To do this, I would suggest that you must capture a live beholder and take it to a mage of, say, 15th level or so. The mage then spends some time trapping the powers of the beholder in the shield. This just happens to cost the exact same as making the item would. 3) Use the fact that the beholder is trapped inside the item as nothing more than flavor, and follow the pricing guidelines for the item's creation. 4) Have the item created as an intelligent item. This would end up costing far more than a standard item, and would also result in the fighter wielding the shield to be practically dominated by the beholder.
Melpomene 11-27-04, 02:00 PM	6 x 11 x 2000 x 1.5 (because the spell has a duration of ten minutes per level) = 198,000 gp. I think. Heh. :thinks: Sounds about right. I wouldn't let a payer use it for much less than that.
obrysii 11-27-04, 04:23 PM	the Draconomicon has an item in it that is a +1 tower shield that can 1/day cast Antimagic Field for around 27,000gps.
Shadowbane 11-28-04, 02:28 PM	We are by no means attempting to circumvent the D&D process, and we know the shield is gonna cost serious gold to create but it has role playing value for our campaign we are in. The DM will prolly set tons of baddies against us for making the shield or maybe even send beholders after us to rescue thier kin, I am not sure but I just wanted to see if it could be done. As far as going outside the rules, not sure about that. There are many, artifacts/magic items with powerful people/creatures captive inside them giving the owner powers or knowledge that that creature had in its life.
masterofmayhem 11-28-04, 09:40 PM	We are by no means attempting to circumvent the D&D process, and we know the shield is gonna cost serious gold to create but it has role playing value for our campaign we are in. The DM will prolly set tons of baddies against us for making the shield or maybe even send beholders after us to rescue thier kin, I am not sure but I just wanted to see if it could be done. Sorry for the bad attitude. What I'm trying to say is that you just use the price according to the pricing guide, and that all the rest is really only fluff for role-playing purposes. Attempting to use the fluff as the basis of the item doesn't really make sense, especially in that there are no spells (at least none that I know of) that could do what you want to do. Hence, it would be some sort of Craft feat. As far as going outside the rules, not sure about that. There are many, artifacts/magic items with powerful people/creatures captive inside them giving the owner powers or knowledge that that creature had in its life. Ah, my mistake then. I had never heard of any, (or, rather, not any that work the way you want them to) items/spells that do such a thing. Do you think you could post some examples so that we could use them as a basis for the item?
Shadowbane 11-28-04, 11:26 PM	Masterofmayhem, No apologies needed. I appreciate any reply that is helpful and your reply was just that. As far as intel items there are a few in the DMG 3.5, one that comes to mind is a war hammer that has a high level fighter or cleric encased in it (willingly) and gives the user armor smithing bonuses as well as making it a holy weapon. I will look up a few of these items and post them here, before I make a fool of myself and get the facts wrong. I am heading for bed, so I will post them tomorrow after work.
masterofmayhem 11-28-04, 11:48 PM	a war hammer that has a high level fighter or cleric encased in it (willingly) and gives the user armor smithing bonuses as well as making it a holy weapon. The problem with that (which I had stated earlier and which you just now implied, purposefully, I assume) is that the cleric was willing. Any unwilling beholder you trap is going to be far from helpful; in fact, he will try to kill the PC's group at every possible opportunity. The fact that the beholder won't want to help you is the problem. If you could either find a willing one (yeah, right ;)) or force one to help you, then you could do it. You could use a helm of reverse alignment, I suppose. Then just get your bard to throw in his fascinate, suggestion, and +40 diplomacy. :)
incubus 11-28-04, 11:58 PM	Have a mage create a simulacrum of a beholder and totally foul up his disguise check. Et voila - one beholder copy shaped like a shield. Now you just need to make it so he can survive incoming attacks...
Shadowbane 11-30-04, 05:50 PM	The problem with that (which I had stated earlier and which you just now implied, purposefully, I assume) is that the cleric was willing. Any unwilling beholder you trap is going to be far from helpful; in fact, he will try to kill the PC's group at every possible opportunity. The fact that the beholder won't want to help you is the problem. If you could either find a willing one (yeah, right ;)) or force one to help you, then you could do it. You could use a helm of reverse alignment, I suppose. Then just get your bard to throw in his fascinate, suggestion, and +40 diplomacy. :) Maybe if we offered a lifetime supply of chocolate chip cookies, I hear Beholders are very found of cookies. Seriously now, maybe the beholder can be made to serve him? Failure to obey would result in torment and pain. Hmmm, gotta think further on this one. Thanks for the replies.
masterofmayhem 11-30-04, 07:54 PM	Geas might work, although the beholder would scoff at a paltry 3d6 damage . . . Other than that, there is always the option of creating a spell that does what you're looking for. A variation of Trap the Soul perhaps. Or another spell to make him serve you (Greater Geas?).
Shadowbane 11-30-04, 07:57 PM	Geas might work, although the beholder would scoff at a paltry 3d6 damage . . . Other than that, there is always the option of creating a spell that does what you're looking for. A variation of Trap the Soul perhaps. Or another spell to make him serve you (Greater Geas?). What about a permanent charm monster?
masterofmayhem 11-30-04, 08:25 PM	Well, Charm Monster only makes them your friend. I do not have a friend on this earth who would be willing to trap their soul for eternity for me just so I could "fight better." And the reverse is also true. ;) No, I think something more powerful is in order. Perhaps a sort of dominate? Does dominate allow one to use their special abilities?
whitelightsaber 12-01-04, 10:47 AM	There is a way to do this thats totally legal...but it requires a non wizards dnd book called "Feats" and you would have to spend a feat to do it. you would also need some way to use antimagic field on the beholder (ie beating it at its own game). I cant remember what its called but its in the quest feats section, it lets you steal a power from a monster permanetly, so long as that monster is in some way alive (like trapping his soul in the shield to keep him alive in the sheild forever), and if it came down to killing the beholder and you gave him the choice of immortality versus death he would probobly agree to go in the sheild, giving you the antimagic eye in a sheild you are looking for. again...it requires that other book so i dont know how well that sticks up in ur campain but i figured it was worth a shot.