Post/Author/DateTime	Post
OracleYori 10-28-05, 05:20 PM	How much does it cost? I know it's in the Mini's Handbook- (I hope that I got the name right.)
Vaelan 10-28-05, 05:27 PM	It is the Belt of Magnificence, and it costs 200,000gp.
OracleYori 10-28-05, 05:51 PM	Thanks- it just seemed to me like it would be a perfect item- whats the CL needed to make the item?
Lawrence 10-28-05, 07:26 PM	technically 18th level, but seeing as how the CL's are being <censored letters> these days, you could probably get away with lvl 5 if you can really con the DM. :P
Kaboth 10-28-05, 08:19 PM	Even making the item yourself would cost 100,000 gold and 8,000 XP amd 100 days of craft time.
primemover003 10-28-05, 08:25 PM	Unless the item says otherwise the listed CL is only what the tiem would have if found as part of a treasure hoard... as long as you can pay the XP, have the correct spells cast (by you or for you) each day of the creation process, and have the requisite feats you can make any item you want...
OracleYori 10-28-05, 08:35 PM	Really? So the CL isn't a hard and fast necessary to make an item? so, then how useful is the CL+2 that the artificer gets for crafting items?
Kaboth 10-28-05, 08:45 PM	Really? So the CL isn't a hard and fast necessary to make an item? so, then how useful is the CL+2 that the artificer gets for crafting items? Not exactly sure, but for the prerequisite it means nothing. However, it might help when they are crafting things like wands and determining the caster level of the wand. I would have to read the artificer more to see it.
Wyrd Bearer 10-28-05, 08:48 PM	Really? So the CL isn't a hard and fast necessary to make an item? so, then how useful is the CL+2 that the artificer gets for crafting items?The artificer counts as having +2 CL, meaning that a 4th level artificer could craft an item that required 3rd level spells (since at CL 5 casters that progress as a wizard does gets 3rd level spells) but the items the artificer makes count as being made at his actual level. I.e. an artificer faking a wand of fireball could make it at CL 3 (effectively 5) but the wand itself would be at 3rd level, so it would only do 3d6 instead of 5d6 which is the normal minimum. (Of course, I'm going off of what I'm remembering here as someone is borrowing the copy of the Eberron book right now, so I could be very wrong.)
Cyan Wisp 10-29-05, 02:03 AM	Really? So the CL isn't a hard and fast necessary to make an item? so, then how useful is the CL+2 that the artificer gets for crafting items? :uh-huh: • Caster Level: The next item in a notational entry gives the caster level of the item, indicating its relative power. The caster level determines the item’s saving throw bonus, as well as range or other level-dependent aspects of the powers of the item (if variable). It also determines the level that must be contended with should the item come under the effect of a dispel magic spell or similar situation. This information is given in the form “CL x,” where “CL” is an abbreviation for caster level and “x” is an ordinal number representing the caster level itself. For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself. In this case, the creator’s caster level must be as high as the item’s caster level (and prerequisites may effectively put a higher minimum on the creator’s level). As an example: Assume a full druid creator crafting the following items... Gloves of Dexterity: These thin leather gloves are very flexible and allow for delicate manipulation. They add to the wearer’s Dexterity score in the form of an enhancement bonus of +2, +4, or +6. Both gloves must be worn for the magic to be effective. Moderate transmutation; CL 8th; Craft Wondrous Item, cat’s grace; Price 4,000 gp (+2), 16,000 gp (+4), 36,000 gp (+6). Gem of Seeing: This finely cut and polished stone is indistinguishable from an ordinary jewel in appearance. When it is gazed through, a gem of seeing enables the user to see as though she were affected by the true seeing spell. A gem of seeing can be used for as much as 30 minutes a day, divided up into periods of minutes or rounds as the user sees fit. Moderate divination; CL 10th; Craft Wondrous Item, true seeing; Price 75,000 gp. For the gloves of dex, the druid must be 8th level to make them. For the gem of seeing, the druid must be 13th level to create it (as the prerequisite of true seeing is a Drd 7 spell, only available as a 13th level Druid) So, yes the caster level listed in the magic item descriptions is very important for creation purposes. :rolleyes:
Kaboth 10-29-05, 03:01 AM	Well you need to know two things as well... You need to go read the FAQ (or is it the DMG errata??) that does away with the caster level on magic items and where it states all you need is to have the feat (creation feat) and the "spell" provided to you to create the item....You dont need to be the level to create the item or to actually be able to cast the spell...
aelryinth 10-29-05, 03:07 AM	Even making the item yourself would cost 100,000 gold and 8,000 XP amd 100 days of craft time. 200 days of craft time...1day/1000 gp of the base price, not the cost. I got caught on this when posting Wand maker prices. ===Aelryinth
Kaboth 10-29-05, 03:08 AM	In Fact here it is (DMG Errata V3.5 3/12/2004) Caster Level Dungeon Master’s Guide, page 215 Problem: The last two sentences in the section on Caster Level are ambiguous and potentially misleading. Solution: Replace with this text: For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.
Kaboth 10-29-05, 03:11 AM	200 days of craft time...1day/1000 gp of the base price, not the cost. I got caught on this when posting Wand maker prices. ===Aelryinth Your right, my mistake, I was more emphasizing the XP cost more than time... Time is usually not an issue. However, 200 days down time is bad for a party, thats like 7 months downtime (in a standard 12 month 365 day year) LOL...
Cyan Wisp 10-29-05, 04:05 AM	Well you need to know two things as well... You need to go read the FAQ (or is it the DMG errata??) that does away with the caster level on magic items and where it states all you need is to have the feat (creation feat) and the "spell" provided to you to create the item....You dont need to be the level to create the item or to actually be able to cast the spell... OMG that opens things up considerably. Thank you, Kaboth! Pity that you can't rely on the SRD though. :weep:
Kaboth 10-29-05, 04:27 AM	OMG that opens things up considerably. Thank you, Kaboth! Pity that you can't rely on the SRD though. :weep: Well that is what all of us here at the community are here for to help, inform, give opinions and show things people might have missed... It does make things a tad easier but remember that XP cost is still a pain in the rear to deal with and stuff... and me as DM would still be reluctant to just toss people to craft things that needs miracle and wishes...etc...
OracleYori 10-29-05, 09:20 AM	Yeah- The XP penalty would be a major different to making uber-strong magic items.... (But my DM hated the XP cost, so he goes with a method similar to RPGA, and it takes only 1 day to 'make' any item.....) [and thanks for all the very useful information]
d_nychus 10-29-05, 01:27 PM	OMG that opens things up considerably. Thank you, Kaboth! Pity that you can't rely on the SRD though. :weep: Yes, you can trust the SRD. Cyan Wisp is either using a version of the SRD that came out before the errata, or is copying the text straight from the DMG. Either way, the current SRD is correct.
Cyan Wisp 10-29-05, 04:11 PM	Yes, you can trust the SRD. Cyan Wisp is either using a version of the SRD that came out before the errata, or is copying the text straight from the DMG. Either way, the current SRD is correct. That's odd. I used the online SRD for my quote. Here is the link (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35) for the "version" I used. Where do I find the current SRD, please? :)
Merestil Haye 10-29-05, 05:36 PM	A quick check suggests that that SRD has not been updated to take account of changes made since the first PHB errata. Thus, for example, Divine Favor still grants a maximum bonus of +6, the Solar can still use Power Word, Stun both At Will and once per day, and the Melee Weapon Special Abilities table still says you can make a Piercing weapon a Vorpal weapon. All these have been changed by errata files, but none have been adopted into this SRD. Solution : Familiarise yourself with the contents of the errata files so you know what they say and when this SRD is now in error. Or use something like The Hypertext SRD (http://www.d20srd.org).
d_nychus 10-29-05, 08:18 PM	That's just freakin' odd. The copy I have been using for the last few weeks has that last section removed. Here is what my copy says. For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster level is that with is needed to meet the prerequisites given. That's what was in the DMG errata, effectively. However, I just d/led another copy of the SRD from the WotC site, and its back to what Cyan Wisp originally posted. For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself. In this case, the creator’s caster level must be as high as the item’s caster level (and prerequisites may effectively put a higher minimum on the creator’s level). That means that at some point I got a copy that someone had changed to fit with the errata. I thought WotC had done that, but obviously not, since the SRD still has that. I might have done it, but I don't remember ever making that change. I could have also got the copy from another site, but I thought I had got it from WotC. So, sorry, Cyan Wisp. I wasn't trying to say anything against you, but I seriously thought that WotC had implemented the change in the SRD.
Tyler Do'Urden 10-30-05, 01:25 AM	I know it's in the Mini's Handbook- The Miniature's Handbook is broken in ways that normal characters can't ever be because it's not designed for standard four-man party gaming. Huge bonuses to social stats don't matter so much in D&D minis because all you do is fight. In most other D&D games, there are some non-combat interactions with the environment that make such things overpowered.
Vaelan 10-30-05, 05:46 AM	The Miniature's Handbook is broken in ways that normal characters can't ever be because it's not designed for standard four-man party gaming. Huge bonuses to social stats don't matter so much in D&D minis because all you do is fight. You might have a point if that particular item were made for the D&D Minis game. However, it was not. The book is very clearly divided into two sections, and the Belt of Magnificence is found well before the book diverges into D&D Minis rules. It is pretty easy to tell if you bother to look at the book since the D&D Minis section has its own list of magic items about 120 pages after you'd see the Belt of Magnificence. In most other D&D games, there are some non-combat interactions with the environment that make such things overpowered. Nothing in the Miniature's Handbook offers a higher bonus to any social stat than the DMG does.
d_nychus 10-30-05, 10:50 AM	The Miniature's Handbook is broken in ways that normal characters can't ever be because it's not designed for standard four-man party gaming. Huge bonuses to social stats don't matter so much in D&D minis because all you do is fight. In most other D&D games, there are some non-combat interactions with the environment that make such things overpowered. Actually, quite the opposite. The MHB is more balanced than most other books that have come out. In fact, quite a number of aspects from the MHB have trickled down into other books, such as the favored soul and the warmage, and even a few feats and spells. I do not know of a single class, item, feat, or spell from the MHB that breaks the game. If someone can point it out a specific example, I would be happy to discuss it. However, never has anyone who has ever made a claim that the MHB is broken pointed out a single example. It's always "Well, the entire book is broken." Anyone who says that the MHB is broken has never actually LOOKED at the MHB.