Belt of the Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Belt of the Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
stormer1120
02-05-06, 07:50 AM Does the Belt of the Monk give a character the Monks Wisdom Bonus to AC?

Thanks

-Stormer
Esponer
02-05-06, 07:53 AM Kind of disputed. As it's worded, it certainly seems to, but many people I've heard talk about this have concluded that it only grants a +1 AC bonus and the other things it outlines, as this is more in line with its cost. It will probably have to be down to the DM.
White_Wizard
02-05-06, 09:30 AM When it is generally spoken "the monk's AC" it is the monk's bonus to AC as class feature (which is a fixed amount that increeases with level -see the monk's table in PHB) that it is spoken about, not his/her bonus for high wisdom score. In fact the Monk's belt gives an AC bonus clearly stated as equal to that of a monk who is five level higher, therefore leaving out the wisdom bonus.
stormer1120
02-05-06, 10:40 AM When it is generally spoken "the monk's AC" it is the monk's bonus to AC as class feature (which is a fixed amount that increeases with level -see the monk's table in PHB) that it is spoken about, not his/her bonus for high wisdom score. In fact the Monk's belt gives an AC bonus clearly stated as equal to that of a monk who is five level higher, therefore leaving out the wisdom bonus.

Stating it is equal to a monk 5 levels higher does not neccesarily mean the wisdom bonus is excluded. The monk level is required to totally determine the AC bonus.

The explanation of the monks AC adjustment in the PHB text under the class does include the wisdom bonus.

I think you are correct but i would like to quote a rule that says when talking about the monks AC it is the bonus to AC as a fixed amount according to monk level.

Thanks for the input.
ShinAkuma2
02-05-06, 12:09 PM This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus.

When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level).

How is there any dispute that the Monk's Belt functions exactly as it is written, ie, it adds Wis+1 AC to a non-monk?

Since the AC Bonus ability calls the static bumps an "addition", why would the main part of it, the Wisdom part, be ignored by an item claiming to function "just like" the ability?
Esponer
02-05-06, 12:19 PM How is there any dispute that the Monk's Belt functions exactly as it is written, ie, it adds Wis+1 AC to a non-monk?

Since the AC Bonus ability calls the static bumps an "addition", why would the main part of it, the Wisdom part, be ignored by an item claiming to function "just like" the ability?

It is disputed because it is unbalanced.
ShinAkuma2
02-05-06, 01:48 PM How is it unbalanced?

1) Not too many characters have a very high wisdom. Clerics, Druids, Monks...Who else really depends on a high enough wisdom that this belt could unbalance that? And for that mattaer, how many Druids actually depend on AC while in normal form?

2) It doesn't work if you're carrying a medium load, or using a shield or armor. How many Clerics don't use Armor or Shields? If I had to choose between a belt for maybe +6 AC (given a 20 Wis), or a much cheaper (and enchantable) fullplate for +8, I think I'd take the armor.

3) 13,000 gp. For a little AC bump (and the ability to threaten unarmed) that limits what you can wear, and how much you can carry. As opposed to 18,005 gp for Ring of Deflection +3 and a Spiked Gauntlet, with no limits on how it'll work, continuing functionality with armor and shields, and no dependancy on a high ability score that may otherwise be doing you very little good.

I see nothing unbalanced about letting the Monk's Belt function exactly as the text describes it.
hunterc311
02-05-06, 03:10 PM Your points are made out of context.

1) Not too many characters have a very high wisdom. Clerics, Druids, Monks...Who else really depends on a high enough wisdom that this belt could unbalance that? And for that mattaer, how many Druids actually depend on AC while in normal form?

It's irrelevant who "typically" has a higher wisdom. Any character can have a good wisdom score if their intitial ability scores are all high enough. Your point is made based on your opinion that most character do not have a very high wisdom. The game is balanced based on fact, not opinion.

2) It doesn't work if you're carrying a medium load, or using a shield or armor. How many Clerics don't use Armor or Shields? If I had to choose between a belt for maybe +6 AC (given a 20 Wis), or a much cheaper (and enchantable) fullplate for +8, I think I'd take the armor.

Again, irrelevant and based on opinion. Your vision of how a cleric should be built is not the only way one can be built. Some faiths commonly do not use any armor or shields, and as such, many clerics rely more on agility than heavy armor for their protection. Also, keep in mind, full plate comes with heavy movement and skill restrictions, while a Monk's Belt carries no penalties at all. If your character is designed to not carry much on him, and relies on DEX over armor for his AC number, then this belt is ideal for him.

3) 13,000 gp. For a little AC bump (and the ability to threaten unarmed) that limits what you can wear, and how much you can carry. As opposed to 18,005 gp for Ring of Deflection +3 and a Spiked Gauntlet, with no limits on how it'll work, continuing functionality with armor and shields, and no dependancy on a high ability score that may otherwise be doing you very little good.

Magic item costs are based on a formula, not on speculation of how much you think an item's abilities are worth. What you call a "little AC bump" has a specific value associated with it. If the entire set of abilities of a magic item are each given a value, which they are, they should come to equal a specific cost. The issue is simply this; if you add all the abilities together, do they equal the cost? I don't really feel like going through it right now, but you should know that the Wisdom bonus to AC and the chart bonus to AC are two separate abilities, so if you feel like breaking down the item by value, make sure you count them separately. That will tell you if your view of the item's abilities is accurate or not.

I see nothing unbalanced about letting the Monk's Belt function exactly as the text describes it.

That's because you only see in one dimension. There are many dimensions to any given class, so don't stereotype based on the common perception. The one thing you should always keep in mind, is this:

An item's value is based on when it can be used to it's fullest potential.
Mist of Shadows
02-05-06, 03:43 PM :banghead: :hoppingma :banghead: Had to talk about the idea of things being balanced. For some reason people don't like the wisdom bonus, but the text is rather clear. It fuctions for ac and unarmed damage as if you were a 5th level monk. (if you aren't a monk) So yes you get to add your wisdom.
ShinAkuma2
02-05-06, 06:08 PM It's irrelevant who "typically" has a higher wisdom. Any character can have a good wisdom score if their intitial ability scores are all high enough.

I doubt the survivability of a melee character that dumps Str, Dex, or Con now in favor of Wisdom in the hopes that they will eventually have the money and the access to a Monk's Belt. The belt does you no good if you never live long enough to get one, so supposing who "could be" wearing this belt is stupid. We should be talking about who actually will be benifiting from this belt.

An item's value is based on when it can be used to it's fullest potential.

Then I guss this is the most broken item of all time, since a character could concievably have +100 Wis bonus, and thus +100 to AC.

Better ban it. And better ban monks as well.

Your point is made based on your opinion that most character do not have a very high wisdom. The game is balanced based on fact, not opinion.

It seems you don't know what an opinion is. Regardless, it remains the truth that most non-spellcasters don't value a high Wisdom. Only Charisma gets dumped more often.

Your vision of how a cleric should be built is not the only way one can be built. Some faiths commonly do not use any armor or shields, and as such, many clerics rely more on agility than heavy armor for their protection.

If a Cleric would rather eschew armor, that's great and all, but it remains the fact that the cleric still has to survive to the point where he can purchase the belt. 13,000 is not chump change (campaign deviance notwithstanding). If he's doing so fine until then, why bother with the belt? If he so desperately needs the belt to survive, why not just take a level of Monk and get a better boost of out?

I don't really feel like going through it right now, but you should know that the Wisdom bonus to AC and the chart bonus to AC are two separate abilities, so if you feel like breaking down the item by value, make sure you count them separately.

Uh, no they aren't? They're both listed under the AC Bonus ability. It's one ability. You may as well be trying to tell me that "A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons" and "A monk also deals more damage with her unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown on Table: The Monk" are two separate abilities, rather than being two functions of the "Unarmed Strike" ability.

Regardless of how you whine about it, you can't change the fact that the belt works as it is written outside of the confines of your own campaign, so stop arguing. You're not going to get WotC to errata the belt.
kraegor
02-05-06, 06:45 PM Yeah, the magical item specifically states you have the armor class as a 5th level monk.

Now if it didn't include wisdom bonus, wouldnt it just say that you have +2 to your AC?

Think about it...
hunterc311
02-07-06, 12:56 AM Regardless of how you whine about it, you can't change the fact that the belt works as it is written outside of the confines of your own campaign, so stop arguing. You're not going to get WotC to errata the belt.

Okay, one, who is whining and who is arguing? Two, why are you hostile? Three, where in my post does it say that this is my goal?
aelryinth
02-07-06, 02:16 AM WoTC has come down on the side of the Wisdom bonus.

The cost issue IS an issue. IT's very easy to see just about anyone getting a +3 from the belt...you need only a 12 Wis, a +2 booster, and bingo, +3 AC for quite the cheap. On top of that you get a free feat.

And if you are a class that does not rely on heavy armor, such as higher level druids and clerics, this thing is a godsend, because at higher (esp Epic) levels it is always cheaper to increase a stat then it is to increase the power of armor.

==Aelryinth
Lotus Crane
02-07-06, 02:36 AM In our games, we have two versions of the monk's belt. The basic version costs 5,000 gp and only provides the +1 to AC. The improved version costs 50,000 gp and provides the Wisdom bonus in addition to the +1. We find the benefits and costs are generally more in line with eachother that way.

And don't forget that clerics and druids can just forgo actual armor in favor of bracers of armor (which go up to +8 even pre-epic). This is especially abusive for wildshaped druids, who by some rulings, can continue to wear their belt and bracers, thus adding Wisdom and armor bonuses to AC, on top of their natural armor bonus.
allenchan
02-07-06, 02:58 AM :banghead: :hoppingma :banghead: Had to talk about the idea of things being balanced. For some reason people don't like the wisdom bonus, but the text is rather clear. It fuctions for ac and unarmed damage as if you were a 5th level monk. (if you aren't a monk) So yes you get to add your wisdom.

This bears repeating. There are many things in the core rules that are not balanced, but that does not mean they're worded wrong simply because we wish them so. We can complain about it all we want, and house rule it all we want, but by the RAW its Wis+1 AC.
JadeSpider9643
02-07-06, 03:40 AM Just remember if it works like the Monks class ability (Wis +1), then it should work completely like the monks class ability, meaning if you wear any armor, carry a shield or carry a medium or heavy load, you lose it.
White_Wizard
02-07-06, 05:26 AM First of all: there's no need to argue at all. We are all players here, and playing means have fun. Arguing's not funny.

That said:
Yeah, the magical item specifically states you have the armor class as a 5th level monk.

Now if it didn't include wisdom bonus, wouldnt it just say that you have +2 to your AC?

Think about it...
Well, the Monk's Belt's text doesn't say 5th level monk, but "Monk five levels higher", meaning that if it is worn by a non-Monk character it grants AC bonus like a level 5 Monk but if the character has monk levels, he is treated as 5 level higher in the monk's class for AC bonus purpose. I think this difference is pretty much important.

As for the AC bonus I think the belt only grants the fixed amount because: 1) it would be unbalanced in terms of cost of the belt 2) I don't see adding Wis to AC as something that can be 'granted', but more like something that the character accomplishes 3) In the Monk's table on PHB the only thing referenced as AC bonus is the fixed value. 4) The fixed value is the only thing level related, so I assume that it is this the Monk's Belt references to.
All of this is of course strictly imho.
_sl0t_
02-07-06, 10:06 AM While I agree that the monk's belt is a little cheap for so many bonuses, I think it isn't unbalanced as most of you think.
As it was said before, not many core classes can make use of it and even with enough money I think nobody would spend the money on monk's belt when they already get proffiency with armors can have the same effect with a mithral armor with some bonuses.
Now about the bracers of armor, did you see the price of a +8 bracer? Hell, if you collected enough money to buy a pair of these why not let you make use of it? I can make a great magical armor earlier with less money and more than +11 bonus, so what's the problem?
White_Wizard
02-07-06, 10:30 AM While I agree that the monk's belt is a little cheap for so many bonuses, I think it isn't unbalanced as most of you think.
As it was said before, not many core classes can make use of it and even with enough money I think nobody would spend the money on monk's belt when they already get proffiency with armors can have the same effect with a mithral armor with some bonuses.
Now about the bracers of armor, did you see the price of a +8 bracer? Hell, if you collected enough money to buy a pair of these why not let you make use of it? I can make a great magical armor earlier with less money and more than +11 bonus, so what's the problem?
Yes, a magical armor is likely to offer a greater bonus, but it's something not available to all classes, so it's cost is diminished, while bracers of armor +8 mean that even a wizard can get the equivalent of a full armor AC bonus, or a monk can wear them to gain protection without violate his armor rule (or even a druid can do that), so bracers of armor are much more valuable than normal magic armors.
_sl0t_
02-07-06, 08:08 PM Yes, a magical armor is likely to offer a greater bonus, but it's something not available to all classes, so it's cost is diminished, while bracers of armor +8 mean that even a wizard can get the equivalent of a full armor AC bonus, or a monk can wear them to gain protection without violate his armor rule (or even a druid can do that), so bracers of armor are much more valuable than normal magic armors.
Yes, and that's exactly my point. When you finally get the money to buy a bracers of armor +8 I'll already have a full plate +5 and a shield +5 with some bonuses. So what's the big deal if you want to throw in a monk's belt?
I'm not complaining about the magical armor bonuses and bracers of armor price, just saying that giving a monk's belt to someone with bracers of armors wouldn't be unbalancing because everybody else will already have a lot stronger stuff at the same or less cost.
stormer1120
02-07-06, 08:35 PM [QUOTE=aelryinth]WoTC has come down on the side of the Wisdom bonus.

Aelryinth, does this mean you emailed wizards of the coast and they said the Wisdom bonus is added to the AC?

-Stormer1120

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
stormer1120 02-05-06, 07:50 AM	Does the Belt of the Monk give a character the Monks Wisdom Bonus to AC? Thanks -Stormer
Esponer 02-05-06, 07:53 AM	Kind of disputed. As it's worded, it certainly seems to, but many people I've heard talk about this have concluded that it only grants a +1 AC bonus and the other things it outlines, as this is more in line with its cost. It will probably have to be down to the DM.
White_Wizard 02-05-06, 09:30 AM	When it is generally spoken "the monk's AC" it is the monk's bonus to AC as class feature (which is a fixed amount that increeases with level -see the monk's table in PHB) that it is spoken about, not his/her bonus for high wisdom score. In fact the Monk's belt gives an AC bonus clearly stated as equal to that of a monk who is five level higher, therefore leaving out the wisdom bonus.
stormer1120 02-05-06, 10:40 AM	When it is generally spoken "the monk's AC" it is the monk's bonus to AC as class feature (which is a fixed amount that increeases with level -see the monk's table in PHB) that it is spoken about, not his/her bonus for high wisdom score. In fact the Monk's belt gives an AC bonus clearly stated as equal to that of a monk who is five level higher, therefore leaving out the wisdom bonus. Stating it is equal to a monk 5 levels higher does not neccesarily mean the wisdom bonus is excluded. The monk level is required to totally determine the AC bonus. The explanation of the monks AC adjustment in the PHB text under the class does include the wisdom bonus. I think you are correct but i would like to quote a rule that says when talking about the monks AC it is the bonus to AC as a fixed amount according to monk level. Thanks for the input.
ShinAkuma2 02-05-06, 12:09 PM	This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus. When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level). How is there any dispute that the Monk's Belt functions exactly as it is written, ie, it adds Wis+1 AC to a non-monk? Since the AC Bonus ability calls the static bumps an "addition", why would the main part of it, the Wisdom part, be ignored by an item claiming to function "just like" the ability?
Esponer 02-05-06, 12:19 PM	How is there any dispute that the Monk's Belt functions exactly as it is written, ie, it adds Wis+1 AC to a non-monk? Since the AC Bonus ability calls the static bumps an "addition", why would the main part of it, the Wisdom part, be ignored by an item claiming to function "just like" the ability? It is disputed because it is unbalanced.
ShinAkuma2 02-05-06, 01:48 PM	How is it unbalanced? 1) Not too many characters have a very high wisdom. Clerics, Druids, Monks...Who else really depends on a high enough wisdom that this belt could unbalance that? And for that mattaer, how many Druids actually depend on AC while in normal form? 2) It doesn't work if you're carrying a medium load, or using a shield or armor. How many Clerics don't use Armor or Shields? If I had to choose between a belt for maybe +6 AC (given a 20 Wis), or a much cheaper (and enchantable) fullplate for +8, I think I'd take the armor. 3) 13,000 gp. For a little AC bump (and the ability to threaten unarmed) that limits what you can wear, and how much you can carry. As opposed to 18,005 gp for Ring of Deflection +3 and a Spiked Gauntlet, with no limits on how it'll work, continuing functionality with armor and shields, and no dependancy on a high ability score that may otherwise be doing you very little good. I see nothing unbalanced about letting the Monk's Belt function exactly as the text describes it.
hunterc311 02-05-06, 03:10 PM	Your points are made out of context. 1) Not too many characters have a very high wisdom. Clerics, Druids, Monks...Who else really depends on a high enough wisdom that this belt could unbalance that? And for that mattaer, how many Druids actually depend on AC while in normal form? It's irrelevant who "typically" has a higher wisdom. Any character can have a good wisdom score if their intitial ability scores are all high enough. Your point is made based on your opinion that most character do not have a very high wisdom. The game is balanced based on fact, not opinion. 2) It doesn't work if you're carrying a medium load, or using a shield or armor. How many Clerics don't use Armor or Shields? If I had to choose between a belt for maybe +6 AC (given a 20 Wis), or a much cheaper (and enchantable) fullplate for +8, I think I'd take the armor. Again, irrelevant and based on opinion. Your vision of how a cleric should be built is not the only way one can be built. Some faiths commonly do not use any armor or shields, and as such, many clerics rely more on agility than heavy armor for their protection. Also, keep in mind, full plate comes with heavy movement and skill restrictions, while a Monk's Belt carries no penalties at all. If your character is designed to not carry much on him, and relies on DEX over armor for his AC number, then this belt is ideal for him. 3) 13,000 gp. For a little AC bump (and the ability to threaten unarmed) that limits what you can wear, and how much you can carry. As opposed to 18,005 gp for Ring of Deflection +3 and a Spiked Gauntlet, with no limits on how it'll work, continuing functionality with armor and shields, and no dependancy on a high ability score that may otherwise be doing you very little good. Magic item costs are based on a formula, not on speculation of how much you think an item's abilities are worth. What you call a "little AC bump" has a specific value associated with it. If the entire set of abilities of a magic item are each given a value, which they are, they should come to equal a specific cost. The issue is simply this; if you add all the abilities together, do they equal the cost? I don't really feel like going through it right now, but you should know that the Wisdom bonus to AC and the chart bonus to AC are two separate abilities, so if you feel like breaking down the item by value, make sure you count them separately. That will tell you if your view of the item's abilities is accurate or not. I see nothing unbalanced about letting the Monk's Belt function exactly as the text describes it. That's because you only see in one dimension. There are many dimensions to any given class, so don't stereotype based on the common perception. The one thing you should always keep in mind, is this: An item's value is based on when it can be used to it's fullest potential.
Mist of Shadows 02-05-06, 03:43 PM	:banghead: :hoppingma :banghead: Had to talk about the idea of things being balanced. For some reason people don't like the wisdom bonus, but the text is rather clear. It fuctions for ac and unarmed damage as if you were a 5th level monk. (if you aren't a monk) So yes you get to add your wisdom.
ShinAkuma2 02-05-06, 06:08 PM	It's irrelevant who "typically" has a higher wisdom. Any character can have a good wisdom score if their intitial ability scores are all high enough. I doubt the survivability of a melee character that dumps Str, Dex, or Con now in favor of Wisdom in the hopes that they will eventually have the money and the access to a Monk's Belt. The belt does you no good if you never live long enough to get one, so supposing who "could be" wearing this belt is stupid. We should be talking about who actually will be benifiting from this belt. An item's value is based on when it can be used to it's fullest potential. Then I guss this is the most broken item of all time, since a character could concievably have +100 Wis bonus, and thus +100 to AC. Better ban it. And better ban monks as well. Your point is made based on your opinion that most character do not have a very high wisdom. The game is balanced based on fact, not opinion. It seems you don't know what an opinion is. Regardless, it remains the truth that most non-spellcasters don't value a high Wisdom. Only Charisma gets dumped more often. Your vision of how a cleric should be built is not the only way one can be built. Some faiths commonly do not use any armor or shields, and as such, many clerics rely more on agility than heavy armor for their protection. If a Cleric would rather eschew armor, that's great and all, but it remains the fact that the cleric still has to survive to the point where he can purchase the belt. 13,000 is not chump change (campaign deviance notwithstanding). If he's doing so fine until then, why bother with the belt? If he so desperately needs the belt to survive, why not just take a level of Monk and get a better boost of out? I don't really feel like going through it right now, but you should know that the Wisdom bonus to AC and the chart bonus to AC are two separate abilities, so if you feel like breaking down the item by value, make sure you count them separately. Uh, no they aren't? They're both listed under the AC Bonus ability. It's one ability. You may as well be trying to tell me that "A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons" and "A monk also deals more damage with her unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown on Table: The Monk" are two separate abilities, rather than being two functions of the "Unarmed Strike" ability. Regardless of how you whine about it, you can't change the fact that the belt works as it is written outside of the confines of your own campaign, so stop arguing. You're not going to get WotC to errata the belt.
kraegor 02-05-06, 06:45 PM	Yeah, the magical item specifically states you have the armor class as a 5th level monk. Now if it didn't include wisdom bonus, wouldnt it just say that you have +2 to your AC? Think about it...
hunterc311 02-07-06, 12:56 AM	Regardless of how you whine about it, you can't change the fact that the belt works as it is written outside of the confines of your own campaign, so stop arguing. You're not going to get WotC to errata the belt. Okay, one, who is whining and who is arguing? Two, why are you hostile? Three, where in my post does it say that this is my goal?
aelryinth 02-07-06, 02:16 AM	WoTC has come down on the side of the Wisdom bonus. The cost issue IS an issue. IT's very easy to see just about anyone getting a +3 from the belt...you need only a 12 Wis, a +2 booster, and bingo, +3 AC for quite the cheap. On top of that you get a free feat. And if you are a class that does not rely on heavy armor, such as higher level druids and clerics, this thing is a godsend, because at higher (esp Epic) levels it is always cheaper to increase a stat then it is to increase the power of armor. ==Aelryinth
Lotus Crane 02-07-06, 02:36 AM	In our games, we have two versions of the monk's belt. The basic version costs 5,000 gp and only provides the +1 to AC. The improved version costs 50,000 gp and provides the Wisdom bonus in addition to the +1. We find the benefits and costs are generally more in line with eachother that way. And don't forget that clerics and druids can just forgo actual armor in favor of bracers of armor (which go up to +8 even pre-epic). This is especially abusive for wildshaped druids, who by some rulings, can continue to wear their belt and bracers, thus adding Wisdom and armor bonuses to AC, on top of their natural armor bonus.
allenchan 02-07-06, 02:58 AM	:banghead: :hoppingma :banghead: Had to talk about the idea of things being balanced. For some reason people don't like the wisdom bonus, but the text is rather clear. It fuctions for ac and unarmed damage as if you were a 5th level monk. (if you aren't a monk) So yes you get to add your wisdom. This bears repeating. There are many things in the core rules that are not balanced, but that does not mean they're worded wrong simply because we wish them so. We can complain about it all we want, and house rule it all we want, but by the RAW its Wis+1 AC.
JadeSpider9643 02-07-06, 03:40 AM	Just remember if it works like the Monks class ability (Wis +1), then it should work completely like the monks class ability, meaning if you wear any armor, carry a shield or carry a medium or heavy load, you lose it.
White_Wizard 02-07-06, 05:26 AM	First of all: there's no need to argue at all. We are all players here, and playing means have fun. Arguing's not funny. That said: Yeah, the magical item specifically states you have the armor class as a 5th level monk. Now if it didn't include wisdom bonus, wouldnt it just say that you have +2 to your AC? Think about it... Well, the Monk's Belt's text doesn't say 5th level monk, but "Monk five levels higher", meaning that if it is worn by a non-Monk character it grants AC bonus like a level 5 Monk but if the character has monk levels, he is treated as 5 level higher in the monk's class for AC bonus purpose. I think this difference is pretty much important. As for the AC bonus I think the belt only grants the fixed amount because: 1) it would be unbalanced in terms of cost of the belt 2) I don't see adding Wis to AC as something that can be 'granted', but more like something that the character accomplishes 3) In the Monk's table on PHB the only thing referenced as AC bonus is the fixed value. 4) The fixed value is the only thing level related, so I assume that it is this the Monk's Belt references to. All of this is of course strictly imho.
_sl0t_ 02-07-06, 10:06 AM	While I agree that the monk's belt is a little cheap for so many bonuses, I think it isn't unbalanced as most of you think. As it was said before, not many core classes can make use of it and even with enough money I think nobody would spend the money on monk's belt when they already get proffiency with armors can have the same effect with a mithral armor with some bonuses. Now about the bracers of armor, did you see the price of a +8 bracer? Hell, if you collected enough money to buy a pair of these why not let you make use of it? I can make a great magical armor earlier with less money and more than +11 bonus, so what's the problem?
White_Wizard 02-07-06, 10:30 AM	While I agree that the monk's belt is a little cheap for so many bonuses, I think it isn't unbalanced as most of you think. As it was said before, not many core classes can make use of it and even with enough money I think nobody would spend the money on monk's belt when they already get proffiency with armors can have the same effect with a mithral armor with some bonuses. Now about the bracers of armor, did you see the price of a +8 bracer? Hell, if you collected enough money to buy a pair of these why not let you make use of it? I can make a great magical armor earlier with less money and more than +11 bonus, so what's the problem? Yes, a magical armor is likely to offer a greater bonus, but it's something not available to all classes, so it's cost is diminished, while bracers of armor +8 mean that even a wizard can get the equivalent of a full armor AC bonus, or a monk can wear them to gain protection without violate his armor rule (or even a druid can do that), so bracers of armor are much more valuable than normal magic armors.
_sl0t_ 02-07-06, 08:08 PM	Yes, a magical armor is likely to offer a greater bonus, but it's something not available to all classes, so it's cost is diminished, while bracers of armor +8 mean that even a wizard can get the equivalent of a full armor AC bonus, or a monk can wear them to gain protection without violate his armor rule (or even a druid can do that), so bracers of armor are much more valuable than normal magic armors. Yes, and that's exactly my point. When you finally get the money to buy a bracers of armor +8 I'll already have a full plate +5 and a shield +5 with some bonuses. So what's the big deal if you want to throw in a monk's belt? I'm not complaining about the magical armor bonuses and bracers of armor price, just saying that giving a monk's belt to someone with bracers of armors wouldn't be unbalancing because everybody else will already have a lot stronger stuff at the same or less cost.
stormer1120 02-07-06, 08:35 PM	[QUOTE=aelryinth]WoTC has come down on the side of the Wisdom bonus. Aelryinth, does this mean you emailed wizards of the coast and they said the Wisdom bonus is added to the AC? -Stormer1120