Belt of Wonder? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Belt of Wonder? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
WinterPsionic
04-13-07, 01:42 AM Seems I recall hearing about an item that grants a bonus to every stat, I believe it was referred to as the belt of wonder, I also believe it was supposed to be in the miniatures handbook.

Is this right? And either way is the item 3.5 balanced?(creating a new character that really doesn't have a dump stat...at all...)
Steevo
04-13-07, 01:56 AM I recall the item, I forget which book it's in. I think the book was 3.5 material, but the item is not balanced by any sense of the word.
JLaurHughes
04-13-07, 01:57 AM It's called the 'Belt of Magnificence', and adds a +2, +4 or +6 to all stats. Since the creation of any magic item, providing an enhancement bonus, requires the caster to be 3x the bonus provided I would think that it is balanced. The cost alone is enough to stop any character from obtaining the item until between 5th and 10th somewhere for even the lowest non stackable enhancement bonus.

It's actually a little costly for the lowest bonus, at 25000gp(+2) and 200000gp(+6)
WinterPsionic
04-13-07, 03:04 AM Wouldn't happen to know the book would you? Need to show it to DM for it to be approved.
unusualsuspect
04-13-07, 03:22 AM Miniature Handbook.
Nezkrul
04-13-07, 09:43 AM every version actually requires a caster level of 17, as written in the description of the item (at least that's what my friend told me).

Belt of Magnificence, not wonder.
runestar
04-13-07, 10:34 AM It is also fantastically expensive(the +6 version costs 200000gp, IIRC)
JLaurHughes
04-13-07, 02:07 PM every version actually requires a caster level of 17, as written in the description of the item (at least that's what my friend told me).

Belt of Magnificence, not wonder.

It's CL 18, but you're close enough.

Now in response to the word "Unbalanced" the only thing I see unbalanced is the actual cost of the item. It's a single item that does the job of 6 different items. At minimum the 6 separate items each cost 2000gp for the +2 bonus, for half the cost of the single item at the +2 bonus, you can get the same enhancements. Enhancement bonuses do not stack with each other(but do stack with other types of enhancements). If some wizard was to cast on you say bulls strength, when you have a belt of magnificence(+2), it overrides the +2 applied to your strength with the +4 of the spell. The spell does not work with BoM(+4) or (+6) because these enhancements re equal or greater than the spell enhancement.
Mystyc
04-13-07, 02:27 PM At minimum the 6 separate items each cost 2000gp for the +2 bonus, for half the cost of the single item at the +2 bonus, you can get the same enhancements.
Actually, it's 4k for a +2 item. Six of them would cost 24k, which is still just under the 25k for the +2 belt.
tarkin
04-13-07, 03:43 PM Item slots are valuable. For 1k more, you get to save 5 slots.

Well worth it.
nytemare3701
04-13-07, 03:50 PM you forget though, most people dont HAVE a use for all six stat bonuses.

congrats, you just spent 6 items worth of cash for...

useless buffs.:eek:
Aracor
04-13-07, 03:54 PM you forget though, most people dont HAVE a use for all six stat bonuses.

congrats, you just spent 6 items worth of cash for...

useless buffs.:eek:

Honestly, there is only one, arguably two, stats that are 'useless', and it's not class dependent. And as Tarkin said; you're saving at least 3-4 item slots compared to what you'd want to have. Very well worth it.
UAMDB
04-13-07, 04:04 PM you forget though, most people dont HAVE a use for all six stat bonuses.

congrats, you just spent 6 items worth of cash for...

useless buffs.:eek:

Actually My Pally/Kensai has no dump stat. The closest thing to a dump stat for me is Dex. All the others are important. And eventhough I wear full plate I can still get the benefit of up to +4 because of feats and Nimbleness. And while the Int bonus does not give me more skills, it does increase my Knowledge skills, and other Int based skills.

Also the +2 version cost a little bit more to save on slots the +6 version if actually cheaper.

Normal +6 is 36000 x 6 = 216000. Thats more than the 200000 belt and it saves slots.

So before you start proclaiming things as useless buffs, why not ask what is the build of the character.
Moribund
04-13-07, 07:33 PM [MIC fanboy]In the Magic Item Compendium there are rules for adding enhancement bonus to ability scores to items that occupy certain slots at no extra cost[/MIC fanboy]

Based on that precedent and the developers claims of MIC as "newly rebalanced", I would say that yes, at least the cheaper Belt of Magnificence is balanced. Also the Miniatures Handbook is 3.5.
Jackmojo
04-13-07, 08:08 PM It's CL 18, but you're close enough.

Just remeber that Cl is listed for Dispel Magic and the like not as a prerequisitge for item creation

The rules for magic item creation permit a character
creating an item to use scrolls, wands, or even another
caster as the source of the spells to be placed in the item.
The rules do not, however, state clearly whether the
character crafting the item has to be of a level sufficient to
cast a given spell. Is the caster level of the character with
the item creation feat being used to create the item (the
“creator”) a limit on the power of the item? For example,
can a 3rd-level wizard with the Craft Wondrous Item feat
create items containing any spell (assuming access to the
spells by other means), or is he limited to 2nd-level spells? ability).

Unless stated specifically, items never have a minimum
caster level as a prerequisite. (The “CL” entry is the default
caster level of the item, not a requirement for creation.)
A 3rd-level wizard with Craft Wondrous Item could create
a harp of charming (even though he’s not high-enough level to
cast suggestion, a prerequisite for creation), as long he had
access to the suggestion spell during creation (such as from an
item or another character).

Jack
runestar
04-13-07, 10:07 PM you forget though, most people dont HAVE a use for all six stat bonuses.
Then don't use the belt, and settle for a cheaper alternative. It is there for people who do have a reason to pump 5 or all their stats, such as paladins. I don't quite see how one can reason that it should be cheaper since fighters benefit from only 1/2 its benefits, while paladins are there milking it of its full benefits?:confused:
WinterPsionic
04-14-07, 12:34 AM Some good points, however I'm a LONGGGGG way from being able to afford the "better" belt. And as I said in the first port I don't have a dump stat.

I'm a Bard Swashbukler base, so that's Dex to Hit, Int for Skills and GS damage mod, and Charisma for the Bardic abilities, then throw Chameleon in /w a focus on the Divine and Arcane focuses and then throws Wisdom in the mix, then top if off with master of masks to reinforce all of it. So that only leaves Str and Con, I don't get great HD so the Con is needed, Str is really my only "dump stat" and with the Gladiator Mask I don't always plan to use Finessable weapons(though I will focus on them) so Str comes back into play.
JLaurHughes
04-14-07, 02:09 AM Just remeber that Cl is listed for Dispel Magic and the like not as a prerequisitge for item creation

Jack
I don't often get to read the FAQ's, because either I'm too busy to read them or I'm reading other things that are not as long winded.
Merestil Haye
04-14-07, 08:33 AM I don't often get to read the FAQ's, because either I'm too busy to read them or I'm reading other things that are not as long winded.The fact that caster level is not a prerequisite is shown by the discussion on Magic Item descriptions. It is confirmed by the DMG errata that modifies some of the text of that discussion.

Also, the rule about CL being 3 times the enhancement bonus that you referred to in your first post applies only to the enhancement bonus of weapons, armour and shield; it is not a general rule for any sort of enhancement bonus.
JLaurHughes
04-14-07, 11:19 AM I realized that when I re-read the magic items in the DMG.
Jackmojo
04-14-07, 03:16 PM I don't often get to read the FAQ's, because either I'm too busy to read them or I'm reading other things that are not as long winded.

Hey no worries, I just wanted to make sure that incorrect information wasn't being diseminated.

Jack

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
WinterPsionic 04-13-07, 01:42 AM	Seems I recall hearing about an item that grants a bonus to every stat, I believe it was referred to as the belt of wonder, I also believe it was supposed to be in the miniatures handbook. Is this right? And either way is the item 3.5 balanced?(creating a new character that really doesn't have a dump stat...at all...)
Steevo 04-13-07, 01:56 AM	I recall the item, I forget which book it's in. I think the book was 3.5 material, but the item is not balanced by any sense of the word.
JLaurHughes 04-13-07, 01:57 AM	It's called the 'Belt of Magnificence', and adds a +2, +4 or +6 to all stats. Since the creation of any magic item, providing an enhancement bonus, requires the caster to be 3x the bonus provided I would think that it is balanced. The cost alone is enough to stop any character from obtaining the item until between 5th and 10th somewhere for even the lowest non stackable enhancement bonus. It's actually a little costly for the lowest bonus, at 25000gp(+2) and 200000gp(+6)
WinterPsionic 04-13-07, 03:04 AM	Wouldn't happen to know the book would you? Need to show it to DM for it to be approved.
unusualsuspect 04-13-07, 03:22 AM	Miniature Handbook.
Nezkrul 04-13-07, 09:43 AM	every version actually requires a caster level of 17, as written in the description of the item (at least that's what my friend told me). Belt of Magnificence, not wonder.
runestar 04-13-07, 10:34 AM	It is also fantastically expensive(the +6 version costs 200000gp, IIRC)
JLaurHughes 04-13-07, 02:07 PM	every version actually requires a caster level of 17, as written in the description of the item (at least that's what my friend told me). Belt of Magnificence, not wonder. It's CL 18, but you're close enough. Now in response to the word "Unbalanced" the only thing I see unbalanced is the actual cost of the item. It's a single item that does the job of 6 different items. At minimum the 6 separate items each cost 2000gp for the +2 bonus, for half the cost of the single item at the +2 bonus, you can get the same enhancements. Enhancement bonuses do not stack with each other(but do stack with other types of enhancements). If some wizard was to cast on you say bulls strength, when you have a belt of magnificence(+2), it overrides the +2 applied to your strength with the +4 of the spell. The spell does not work with BoM(+4) or (+6) because these enhancements re equal or greater than the spell enhancement.
Mystyc 04-13-07, 02:27 PM	At minimum the 6 separate items each cost 2000gp for the +2 bonus, for half the cost of the single item at the +2 bonus, you can get the same enhancements. Actually, it's 4k for a +2 item. Six of them would cost 24k, which is still just under the 25k for the +2 belt.
tarkin 04-13-07, 03:43 PM	Item slots are valuable. For 1k more, you get to save 5 slots. Well worth it.
nytemare3701 04-13-07, 03:50 PM	you forget though, most people dont HAVE a use for all six stat bonuses. congrats, you just spent 6 items worth of cash for... useless buffs.:eek:
Aracor 04-13-07, 03:54 PM	you forget though, most people dont HAVE a use for all six stat bonuses. congrats, you just spent 6 items worth of cash for... useless buffs.:eek: Honestly, there is only one, arguably two, stats that are 'useless', and it's not class dependent. And as Tarkin said; you're saving at least 3-4 item slots compared to what you'd want to have. Very well worth it.
UAMDB 04-13-07, 04:04 PM	you forget though, most people dont HAVE a use for all six stat bonuses. congrats, you just spent 6 items worth of cash for... useless buffs.:eek: Actually My Pally/Kensai has no dump stat. The closest thing to a dump stat for me is Dex. All the others are important. And eventhough I wear full plate I can still get the benefit of up to +4 because of feats and Nimbleness. And while the Int bonus does not give me more skills, it does increase my Knowledge skills, and other Int based skills. Also the +2 version cost a little bit more to save on slots the +6 version if actually cheaper. Normal +6 is 36000 x 6 = 216000. Thats more than the 200000 belt and it saves slots. So before you start proclaiming things as useless buffs, why not ask what is the build of the character.
Moribund 04-13-07, 07:33 PM	[MIC fanboy]In the Magic Item Compendium there are rules for adding enhancement bonus to ability scores to items that occupy certain slots at no extra cost[/MIC fanboy] Based on that precedent and the developers claims of MIC as "newly rebalanced", I would say that yes, at least the cheaper Belt of Magnificence is balanced. Also the Miniatures Handbook is 3.5.
Jackmojo 04-13-07, 08:08 PM	It's CL 18, but you're close enough. Just remeber that Cl is listed for Dispel Magic and the like not as a prerequisitge for item creation The rules for magic item creation permit a character creating an item to use scrolls, wands, or even another caster as the source of the spells to be placed in the item. The rules do not, however, state clearly whether the character crafting the item has to be of a level sufficient to cast a given spell. Is the caster level of the character with the item creation feat being used to create the item (the “creator”) a limit on the power of the item? For example, can a 3rd-level wizard with the Craft Wondrous Item feat create items containing any spell (assuming access to the spells by other means), or is he limited to 2nd-level spells? ability). Unless stated specifically, items never have a minimum caster level as a prerequisite. (The “CL” entry is the default caster level of the item, not a requirement for creation.) A 3rd-level wizard with Craft Wondrous Item could create a harp of charming (even though he’s not high-enough level to cast suggestion, a prerequisite for creation), as long he had access to the suggestion spell during creation (such as from an item or another character). Jack
runestar 04-13-07, 10:07 PM	you forget though, most people dont HAVE a use for all six stat bonuses. Then don't use the belt, and settle for a cheaper alternative. It is there for people who do have a reason to pump 5 or all their stats, such as paladins. I don't quite see how one can reason that it should be cheaper since fighters benefit from only 1/2 its benefits, while paladins are there milking it of its full benefits?:confused:
WinterPsionic 04-14-07, 12:34 AM	Some good points, however I'm a LONGGGGG way from being able to afford the "better" belt. And as I said in the first port I don't have a dump stat. I'm a Bard Swashbukler base, so that's Dex to Hit, Int for Skills and GS damage mod, and Charisma for the Bardic abilities, then throw Chameleon in /w a focus on the Divine and Arcane focuses and then throws Wisdom in the mix, then top if off with master of masks to reinforce all of it. So that only leaves Str and Con, I don't get great HD so the Con is needed, Str is really my only "dump stat" and with the Gladiator Mask I don't always plan to use Finessable weapons(though I will focus on them) so Str comes back into play.
JLaurHughes 04-14-07, 02:09 AM	Just remeber that Cl is listed for Dispel Magic and the like not as a prerequisitge for item creation Jack I don't often get to read the FAQ's, because either I'm too busy to read them or I'm reading other things that are not as long winded.
Merestil Haye 04-14-07, 08:33 AM	I don't often get to read the FAQ's, because either I'm too busy to read them or I'm reading other things that are not as long winded.The fact that caster level is not a prerequisite is shown by the discussion on Magic Item descriptions. It is confirmed by the DMG errata that modifies some of the text of that discussion. Also, the rule about CL being 3 times the enhancement bonus that you referred to in your first post applies only to the enhancement bonus of weapons, armour and shield; it is not a general rule for any sort of enhancement bonus.
JLaurHughes 04-14-07, 11:19 AM	I realized that when I re-read the magic items in the DMG.
Jackmojo 04-14-07, 03:16 PM	I don't often get to read the FAQ's, because either I'm too busy to read them or I'm reading other things that are not as long winded. Hey no worries, I just wanted to make sure that incorrect information wasn't being diseminated. Jack