Benefit of a double weapon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Benefit of a double weapon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Yaeri
09-24-06, 03:31 PM I've been wondering since forever what the benefit of a double weapon is. I understand that it can be used with two-weapon fighting. When you enchant the weapon, you still have to enchant both ends seperately, as if they were two weapons.
All the double weapons in the PHB are intentionally weaker than non-double weapons.
So, what am I missing, that makes say a double weapon that's like two 1D6 (*2 threat) weapons, as good as two 1D8 (*3 threat) weapons?
Sivis
09-24-06, 06:49 PM I don't think it's explicitly stated, but I'm fairly certain that you can treat it as a two-handed weapon in terms of bonus damage for high strength. :)
_Chaz_
09-24-06, 07:14 PM The fact that your example was, at a guess the quarterstaff, which is free.

free = useful.

Also, try a two bladed sword or orc double axe

before I realsied oversized twf existed these were good for my rogue, then they became... merely usable for flavour...
Krevon
09-24-06, 07:17 PM If you used two long swords instead it would give you a -6/-8 with twf. With double weapons its only -2/-2 with twf.
Eikre
09-24-06, 07:49 PM Krevon has it.

Having proficiency with a double weapon means you can deal the same damage as if you were using its two base weapons, but without the penalties for having a non-light weapon in the off-hand.

Additionally, its only one object, so you only need one hand to hold it. This is good for anyone that wants to fire a hand crossbow, cast a spell, press a button, toss a vial of Alchemical fire, or quaff a potion.
Krevon
09-24-06, 08:00 PM Krevon has it.

Having proficiency with a double weapon means you can deal the same damage as if you were using its two base weapons, but without the penalties for having a non-light weapon in the off-hand.

Additionally, its only one object, so you only need one hand to hold it. This is good for anyone that wants to fire a hand crossbow, cast a spell, press a button, toss a vial of Alchemical fire, or quaff a potion.

Thats differrent....I'm usually being told how stupid and invalid my point is.

Tanks
utilitarian
09-24-06, 10:12 PM Double Scimitar in specific comes to mind. Without the double weapon you have to go all the way to the Kukri (and an XWP) to get a light offhand with 18-20 crit threat. With the double scimmy you can have all the benefits of a scimitar in both hands.

Plus Weapon Focus or Improved Critical will apply to the entire weapon, so you won't need two seperate feats. for the different weapons.
runestar
09-24-06, 11:16 PM The benefit is that you have the freedom of choosing whether to use a 2-handed weapon, or dual wield, depending on which is more favourable for any given situation.:)

You want to whirlwind, charge or power attack - wield it as a 2-handed weapon.

You have the opportunity to get in a full round of attacks - dual wield and whack away.:)

That's why it costs a feat for the versatility it offers.
mrpopstar
09-24-06, 11:58 PM utilitarian:
Double Scimitar in specific comes to mind. Without the double weapon you have to go all the way to the Kukri (and an XWP) to get a light offhand with 18-20 crit threat. With the double scimmy you can have all the benefits of a scimitar in both hands.

Plus Weapon Focus or Improved Critical will apply to the entire weapon, so you won't need two seperate feats. for the different weapons.Where might one find more information on the 'double scimmy'? :)
Nom
09-25-06, 01:53 AM Runestar has it right.

Purely for TWF, double weapons offer only a marginal improvement over two weapons. However, many two-weapon fighters will choose (say) two shortswords over over a rapier and a shortsword because the former is more efficient if you're getting Weapon Focus or similar weapon-specific feats. The double weapon also grants this advantage.

The big advantage of double weapons is the ability to (relatively) freely shift from two-weapon fighting to two-handed fighting as the circumstances warrant. Thus, they are primarily useful for warrior types; finesse types are typically better to use two finessable weapons and save the badly needed feats.
Dymalos
09-25-06, 03:03 AM From a mechanical standpoint a double weapon is the only way to effectively two-weapon fight as a spellcaster. With a free action it is possible to switch between holding a double weapon in a single hand and wielding it in both, thus allowing you to maintain the required free hand to cast a spell with a somatic component.

Additionally, should you only wish to attack with one end you can use both hands to apply 1-1/2 times your strength bonus to that attack.
Yaeri
09-25-06, 03:33 AM Thanks for all the replies. I can see the light now. :)
El_Machinae
09-25-06, 06:43 AM There's also the RP benefit of trying to figure out how a double-bladed sword can actually be wielded effectively in combat.

The weakness is that it requires a feat, and the benefit is that it opens up more feats available for a weapons. Not only can you take the power-attack tree, but the TWF tree too.
runestar
09-25-06, 07:34 AM I think one of the weapons Kain can wield in one of the Legacy of Kain series games is a double sword. The fighting animation isn't really that spiffy, but at least there is a mental image, and it is not as suicidal as some have made it out to be.

Still, I can't see anyone performing any fancy stunts with it...:P
Yaeri
09-25-06, 07:40 AM Still, I can't see anyone performing any fancy stunts with it...:P
.... Think ... Darth Maul :D
(Or Neo in matrix reloaded when he's fighting 100 smiths. He fights with both ends of what could be considered a steel quarterstaff. :D)
gino
09-25-06, 08:03 AM I reiterate one of the previously asked questions.
Do you always consider your double wpn as 2-handed as far as damage goes, even when dual wielding?

thanks in advance,
Gino

BTW, double scimitar is found in Eberron, and I guess the kukri is a martial weapon in 3.5.
runestar
09-25-06, 08:07 AM Do you always consider your double wpn as 2-handed as far as damage goes, even when dual wielding?
No, when dual wielding, you treat it as a medium weapon and a light weapon.
So for your main hand, you apply your str mod to damage once. Your off-hand gets only 1/2 str damage and power attack does not apply to it.
gino
09-25-06, 09:27 AM Thank you, even though I am quite disappointed by your answer.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Yaeri 09-24-06, 03:31 PM	I've been wondering since forever what the benefit of a double weapon is. I understand that it can be used with two-weapon fighting. When you enchant the weapon, you still have to enchant both ends seperately, as if they were two weapons. All the double weapons in the PHB are intentionally weaker than non-double weapons. So, what am I missing, that makes say a double weapon that's like two 1D6 (2 threat) weapons, as good as two 1D8 (3 threat) weapons?
Sivis 09-24-06, 06:49 PM	I don't think it's explicitly stated, but I'm fairly certain that you can treat it as a two-handed weapon in terms of bonus damage for high strength. :)
_Chaz_ 09-24-06, 07:14 PM	The fact that your example was, at a guess the quarterstaff, which is free. free = useful. Also, try a two bladed sword or orc double axe before I realsied oversized twf existed these were good for my rogue, then they became... merely usable for flavour...
Krevon 09-24-06, 07:17 PM	If you used two long swords instead it would give you a -6/-8 with twf. With double weapons its only -2/-2 with twf.
Eikre 09-24-06, 07:49 PM	Krevon has it. Having proficiency with a double weapon means you can deal the same damage as if you were using its two base weapons, but without the penalties for having a non-light weapon in the off-hand. Additionally, its only one object, so you only need one hand to hold it. This is good for anyone that wants to fire a hand crossbow, cast a spell, press a button, toss a vial of Alchemical fire, or quaff a potion.
Krevon 09-24-06, 08:00 PM	Krevon has it. Having proficiency with a double weapon means you can deal the same damage as if you were using its two base weapons, but without the penalties for having a non-light weapon in the off-hand. Additionally, its only one object, so you only need one hand to hold it. This is good for anyone that wants to fire a hand crossbow, cast a spell, press a button, toss a vial of Alchemical fire, or quaff a potion. Thats differrent....I'm usually being told how stupid and invalid my point is. Tanks
utilitarian 09-24-06, 10:12 PM	Double Scimitar in specific comes to mind. Without the double weapon you have to go all the way to the Kukri (and an XWP) to get a light offhand with 18-20 crit threat. With the double scimmy you can have all the benefits of a scimitar in both hands. Plus Weapon Focus or Improved Critical will apply to the entire weapon, so you won't need two seperate feats. for the different weapons.
runestar 09-24-06, 11:16 PM	The benefit is that you have the freedom of choosing whether to use a 2-handed weapon, or dual wield, depending on which is more favourable for any given situation.:) You want to whirlwind, charge or power attack - wield it as a 2-handed weapon. You have the opportunity to get in a full round of attacks - dual wield and whack away.:) That's why it costs a feat for the versatility it offers.
mrpopstar 09-24-06, 11:58 PM	utilitarian: Double Scimitar in specific comes to mind. Without the double weapon you have to go all the way to the Kukri (and an XWP) to get a light offhand with 18-20 crit threat. With the double scimmy you can have all the benefits of a scimitar in both hands. Plus Weapon Focus or Improved Critical will apply to the entire weapon, so you won't need two seperate feats. for the different weapons.Where might one find more information on the 'double scimmy'? :)
Nom 09-25-06, 01:53 AM	Runestar has it right. Purely for TWF, double weapons offer only a marginal improvement over two weapons. However, many two-weapon fighters will choose (say) two shortswords over over a rapier and a shortsword because the former is more efficient if you're getting Weapon Focus or similar weapon-specific feats. The double weapon also grants this advantage. The big advantage of double weapons is the ability to (relatively) freely shift from two-weapon fighting to two-handed fighting as the circumstances warrant. Thus, they are primarily useful for warrior types; finesse types are typically better to use two finessable weapons and save the badly needed feats.
Dymalos 09-25-06, 03:03 AM	From a mechanical standpoint a double weapon is the only way to effectively two-weapon fight as a spellcaster. With a free action it is possible to switch between holding a double weapon in a single hand and wielding it in both, thus allowing you to maintain the required free hand to cast a spell with a somatic component. Additionally, should you only wish to attack with one end you can use both hands to apply 1-1/2 times your strength bonus to that attack.
Yaeri 09-25-06, 03:33 AM	Thanks for all the replies. I can see the light now. :)
El_Machinae 09-25-06, 06:43 AM	There's also the RP benefit of trying to figure out how a double-bladed sword can actually be wielded effectively in combat. The weakness is that it requires a feat, and the benefit is that it opens up more feats available for a weapons. Not only can you take the power-attack tree, but the TWF tree too.
runestar 09-25-06, 07:34 AM	I think one of the weapons Kain can wield in one of the Legacy of Kain series games is a double sword. The fighting animation isn't really that spiffy, but at least there is a mental image, and it is not as suicidal as some have made it out to be. Still, I can't see anyone performing any fancy stunts with it...:P
Yaeri 09-25-06, 07:40 AM	Still, I can't see anyone performing any fancy stunts with it...:P .... Think ... Darth Maul :D (Or Neo in matrix reloaded when he's fighting 100 smiths. He fights with both ends of what could be considered a steel quarterstaff. :D)
gino 09-25-06, 08:03 AM	I reiterate one of the previously asked questions. Do you always consider your double wpn as 2-handed as far as damage goes, even when dual wielding? thanks in advance, Gino BTW, double scimitar is found in Eberron, and I guess the kukri is a martial weapon in 3.5.
runestar 09-25-06, 08:07 AM	Do you always consider your double wpn as 2-handed as far as damage goes, even when dual wielding? No, when dual wielding, you treat it as a medium weapon and a light weapon. So for your main hand, you apply your str mod to damage once. Your off-hand gets only 1/2 str damage and power attack does not apply to it.
gino 09-25-06, 09:27 AM	Thank you, even though I am quite disappointed by your answer.