Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tsh77769 02-22-06, 07:35 PM	Quite some time ago I posted this thread... http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6966106#post6966106 Since then three other things have come to mind... Dwarvencraft (advanced masterowrk), Thistledown Suit lining, and Ysgardian Heartwire. Dwarvencraf is found in RoS and Thisteldown Suit lining is in RotW. The Dastanna are found in Complete Warrior, Sword & Fist and Oriental Adventures. The Chahar-aina are found only in OA as far as I can tell. Ysgardian Heartwire is found in BoED, Complete Warrior and others. The build goes like this. First, just for reference, consider a standard chain shirt. Standard Chain Shirt (PHB) 100gp, AC +4, max dex +4, ACP -2, ASF 20%, 30’, 25lb. Now consider a Mithral Chain Shirt. Mithral Chain Shirt (DMG pg220, mithral stats pg 284) 1,100gp, AC +4, max dex +6, ACP 0, ASF 10%, 10lb. (note that it is 2lbs lighter to buy it this way than if computed as modifiers). During the build of the Mithral Chain Shirt, factor in Thistledwon Suit lining. It is an armor add on or "extra". It is compatable with Chain based armors and heavy armors. It is a superior replacement for the lining included in chain based armors and heavy armors. It cost 250gp, increase ACP by 1, but decreases ASF by 5%. So the pre-mithral ACP was -2 for a standard chain shirt and -3 for standard chain shirt with thistledwon suit lining. Mithral decreases the ACP by 3. So -3 +3 = ACP 0. Don't forget thistledwon suit lining also decreases ASF by 5%. SO... Mithral Chain Shirt with Thistledown Suit lining. 1,350gp, AC +4, max dex +6, ACP 0, ASF 5%, 10lb. Mithral Dastanna 1,025gp, AC +1, max dex --, ACP 0, ASF 0, +2.5lb. Mithral Chahar-aina 1,075gp, AC +1, max dex --, ACP 0, ASF 0, +5lb. SUB-total Mithral Chain Shirt with Thistledown suit lining, Dastanna, and Chahar-aina. 3,450gp, AC +6, max dex +6, ACP 0, ASF 5%, 17.5 lb. Dwarvencaraft items have +2 to hardness, +10 to hit points, and +2 to all saves, all of which is stackable with magic effects. Dwarvencraft items haveNow to retroactivley figure in the Dwarven Masterwork cost. It says that Dwarvencraft items cost 600gp for weapons and 300gp for armor. This is exactly twice the normal masterwork cost. Mithral alraedy includes the standard masterwrok price. So for a Dwarvencraft Mithral item (or other item whic already includes the masterwork pirce) we simply apply the usual mastwerwork cost again, for the second time. So at another 150gp for the Chain shirt, 150gp for the Dastann, and 150gp for the Chahar-aina...we get SUB-total Dwarvencraft Mithral Chain Shirt with Thistledown suit lining, Dastanna, Chahar-aina. 3,900gp, AC +6, max dex +6, ACP 0, ASF 5%, 17.5 lb. +2 to hardness, +10 to hit points, and +2 to all saves. Now lastly let us factor in the Ysgardian Heartwire armor add on. For 1,500gp you get a +2 to AC ONLY against criticals. TOTAL Dwarvencraft Mithral Chain Shirt with Thistledown suit lining and Ysgaridan Heartwire, plus matching Dastanna and Chahar-aina. 5,400gp, AC +6 (+8 vs criticals), max dex +6, ACP 0, ASF 5%, 17.5 lb. +2 to hardness, +10 to hit points, and +2 to all saves. I think that is pretty dam near unbeatable at that price. Don't forget that is considered light armor too. I think this is by far the best thing going. Even wihtout the Ysgardian Hearwire. I only added that as an afterthough because it was still within a reasonable price range. Tsh77769
Count Arioch the 28th 02-22-06, 08:37 PM	The HP, Hardness, and save bonus is only added to the armor, not the wearer. Since armor only rarely takes damage anyhow (Except when it's outright destroyed by certain effects), dwarvencraft added to your armor seems pretty irrelevant to me.
Tsh77769 02-22-06, 08:48 PM	Yeah I know, but it was realtively cheap by that point and I was primarily interested in the +2 to saves for affects against the armor, for example, heat metal, rust, acid, sunder attempts, etc. Plus it stacks with magical enhancements. Anyways, I think the armor is unmatched by anything else, nothign even close. Even without the Dwarvecraft or Ysgardain Heartwire. Tsh7769
aelryinth 02-22-06, 09:11 PM	You forgot to add in some of the armor treatments, like silvershine, blueshine, or blackslake:) Glassteel might be a superior material to make it from, too. ==Aelryinth
Silverthumb128 02-22-06, 09:39 PM	Dwarvencraft is really meant for shields and weapons. The bonus to hardness/hp is good, but you can't really sunder armor while its being worn. So its sortof giving a benefit that isn't useable until its unequipped.
tarkin 02-23-06, 11:45 AM	1) RAW is worthless. Look up the RAW definition of Death. No one plays with RAW, despite what they think. Instead they play with a bunch of rules that try to make as much sense while sticking to CORE rules, not "Rules as Written". The things you listed (Dastana) are not Core. 2) I am almost certain you have broken the rules for applying Mithral to the partial armors. If I remember correctly, if you have multiple pieces of partial armor made from Mithral, you only get the reduction in ACP and ASF % ONE time, not repeatedly each time you get a new item made of Mithral.
Tsh77769 02-23-06, 12:22 PM	Tarkin, who ****** in your cornflakes? The key here is that the Dastanna and Chahar-aina are not partial armor or parts of a chain shirt but seperate stand alone items that can be used, one, the other, or both, to work together with it (or other armors as listed). So, YES, the Mithral mods would definitely apply seperately to each piece. What is core? Does it include Complete Warrior? If so, then Dastanna are in there but Chahar-aina are not. I never said anything about core or not. As far as I can tell, no rules have been broken and the only possible area for concern could be in the calculation of the Dwarvencraft price. If you don't like it, personally would not use or allow it, fine. Personally, I think it's great and I wanted to share my findings. Tsh77769
Mystic Mouse 02-23-06, 01:46 PM	What / Where is a Chahar-aina?
Kitiskigatifigatin 02-23-06, 04:35 PM	What book is thistledown from?
Rulebook 02-23-06, 04:59 PM	well, if you're going to splatbook out like that, theres the old Gorgon Studded Leather from the Quintessential Rogue, which has a +5 armor, with a +7 or +8 max dex, and is light armor with a 10% or so spell failure, right off the bat, before you do anything to it. and if you're willing to get good dex-boosting items later, Thistledown Padded is superior. its 1 ac less, with 0% ASF and ACP, and costs less than a third of yours, even masterworked. Halfweight Mithral Mountain Plate is a nice armor too, expensive because its magic, but the +10 AC/+3 max dex is nice, and as light armor its REALLY nice. Twilight Celestial Chain (just do a little math) is very nice too. like 0-5% ASF, awesome AC and max dex