Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xabre 12-27-05, 08:51 AM	I'm trying to help my Fiance try and put together a Wizard for a campaign that's coming up. She wants to play either a wizard, or specialist wizard (note: Wizard core class, or UA Specialist variant. But not Warmage, Wu Jen, or any other arcane caster class). We're going to be starting at level 5, which means 9k worth of gear (and the GM does NOT stick to the 'only half on one item' rule. But now what we need to figure out is what's the best form of defense for her to wear? One thing that this character will have going for it, thanks to a house rule, is that this wizard will have Heavy Armor Proficiency. However, we need something that can get around the Arcane Spell Failure. What do people recommend? Bracers of Armor? Rings of Procetion? Enchanted Robes? Any suggestions welcome, along with cost. At current, here is the most effective item I can find, and I'm almost positive that it's completely illegal: Elven Chain Mail, straight from the DMG. Costs 4k, considered Light Armor, and has a fairly low 20% ASF. If this armor were made out of Blended Quartz, from the A&EG, it would weight 40 lbs instead of 20lb, but have a 0% ASF.
Rulebook 12-27-05, 09:00 AM	mage armor spells, rings of protection, sheild spells
Xabre 12-27-05, 09:04 AM	I agree with Mage Armor and Shield (can't really go wrong with +7!), but the only problem is that she's looking for something in a material item. This way she doesn't have to worry as much about the loss of precious spells per day.
Rulebook 12-27-05, 09:18 AM	wands thereof?
aelryinth 12-27-05, 09:34 AM	Elven chain mail is assumed to be made out of mithral...which cuts the weight in half. So, if you make Chain mail out of blended quartz, i think that would be 80 lbs, would it not? ==Aelryinth
Rulebook 12-27-05, 09:39 AM	there is no assumption... it says in the book that elven chain is just mithral chainmail.
Xabre 12-27-05, 09:40 AM	And would then bring it back to Medium armor. Like I said... I was pretty sure that it an illegal build. The only way I can think of making it legal would be to enchant it with +1, and then metalline (costing 4 grand instead of the 2 grand cost of the blended quartz), and always leaving it as blended quartz. I suppose it wuld depend on exactly how you figure the elven chain is considered Light armor. If it's just the mithral, then know, using Quartz wouldn't work. If it's elven skill and magic that also makes it so light weight... then using the quartz COULD work.
keith187 12-27-05, 09:46 AM	There's a few things you could try. She could wear a mithril chain shirt it would be a light armor give her 4AC a max dex if 6 a armor check penetly of 0 and only a 10% arcane spell failure. And since he chain shirt is a light armor it'll only cost1250g before you put any enchantments into it. So say you give it a +1 bonus it'll cost you in total 2250. Add in a ring of protection +1 and an amulet of narutal armor +1 both are 200g. So in total you'll have spent 6250g. The to improve your saves get a cloak of resistance +1 which costs 1000g bringing your total to 7250. A wand of shield will cost you 750g bringing your total to 8000g. Spend the rest on scribing spells into your spell book, and don't forget to pick up mundane things like rations waterskins ect. So you'll get a +5AC from the chain shirt and just for simplicity say a +2 dex bonus. Then +1 from the RoP another +1 from the Amulet of NA then +4 whenever you have shield up. And all your saves are up by one. So your AC should be 19 without the shield spell and 23 with it. Not to bad if you ask me.
keith187 12-27-05, 09:48 AM	Don't bother with mithril chainmail a mithril chain shirt is alot better. Plus if you wanted to do that blended quarts thing the chain shirt is already a light armor before the mithril so no problems there.
Xabre 12-27-05, 09:53 AM	Don't bother with mithril chainmail a mithril chain shirt is alot better. Plus if you wanted to do that blended quarts thing the chain shirt is already a light armor before the mithril so no problems there. That could work. A Blended Quartz Chain Shirt would cost 2350 or so (with Masterwork), removing all ASF. Thought it would end up weighing a TON... would it still be considered Light Armor, since it's just a shirt?
Thorden_Lyon 12-27-05, 10:31 AM	Imo dont even bother with armor, arcane spell failure is the suck. 20% ASF means 20% chance of doing NOTHING in a round, unless you are super rich and have tons of scrolls / wands, which are nearly always low caster level (XP, gold cost) If you still want to wear armor, then go for i, but i strongly suggest : _ You choose the still spell feat. +1lvl, but no ASF anymore, way better than the sucky prestige classes "fighter / mage" type (think about it and you ll understand) _ You know the spells without somatic component (light, blur, displacement, teleport for exemple) _ You do not try to be a real battle wizard, since warmage would have been a cleverer choice. Remember the true power of a wizard reside in his spells and his versatility, not his ability to tank ! Your companion should help you for that matter. Here are few tricks you should know: _ Avoid beeing the primary target : dress like a peasant, a blind guy, or some fat inoffensive merchant, a dumb orc, or whatever you like. _ AC is good, but avoid beeing hit is much better. -- Ride a horse (you can cast a spell and ride at the same time: concentration DC 15) -- Get out of reach : fly, cast a fog, become invisible, blind your opponent, -- Increase the "miss chance to be hitten": mirror image, get concealment (blur is a must, fog cloud, darkness, etc...) -- Slippers of climbing (cheap) : you can walk (unlike spider climb) on walls, so you still can cast spells and be out of reach in a move action, most of the time. -- Do the crowd control : fogs+++ (prevent sneak attacks, reduce their movement, and none can fire an arrow on you), evard's tentacle, confusion, walls, etc... So none goes near you, or has low chance to hit you. _ Pump AC -- Mage armor and shield of course -- Prefer deflection bonus / dodge bonus. Dex is better, but more expensive (better reflex save, ranged touch attack, initiative, skills). -- Multi class with a monk... (even if you are an ex monk, you still have the bonus wisdom to AC and good saves) -- You want to melee ? Polymorph into something nasty. Read skip williams article about that if you are interested. There are tons of advice you can read in this forum. My advice is to always have the good scroll on you (cost nearly nothing) that can save the day, versatility is the master word for a wizard. Do not only focus on AC, and do not be afraid to lose XP in crafting magic items (wands are my favorite... Wands of fireball, invisibility, darkness, etc...) Always have an escape route : either by teleport or by trickery. At lvl 5, wands of invisibility is a nice choice.
Sceadeau 12-27-05, 02:17 PM	Best armor you're going to find as a 5th level wizard using Core material will be to Alter Self into a Troglodyte (+6 Natural armor) and a Mage Armor spell (+4 armor bonus). Extend spell would allow you to stay in those forms for 10 hours at a time for an expenditure of a 2nd and a 3rd level slot, so for a first, 2 second, and a third level slot, you've got 15 hours of magic protection up (and the length will only go up as you level). Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend would do the same thing without using up a feat. Now, you are free to spend money on a ring of protection +1 (2k) and an amulet of natural armor +1(2k...stacks with trog's armor). Assuming 16 dex elf, your AC most of the time will be: 10+3 (dex)+4(armor)+7(natural armor)+1(deflection) = 25. Shield spell gets you up to 29, but only for brief amount of time. That's the best I can do for you using core.... If you want to not use core only...you alter self into a Norker (a small goblinoid with 9 Natural Armor) and cast Greater Mage Armor (+6 armor) 10+3(dex)+6(armor)+10(natural armor)+1(deflection)+1(size) = 31 AC. (35 w/shield) She's now a full fledged tank. Stay away from Antimagic areas. AND you still have 5k left over to spend. Maybe pearl of power I and II (5k total) to replenish those spell slots after you cast those spells. Have fun storming the castle.
Vangerdahast 12-27-05, 03:40 PM	Sceadeau , Alter Self does not improve your natural armor. Only Polymoprh Self does. My advice is to get a Wand of Mage Armor, and possibly a Wand of Shield. This day you save your spells per day. Eventually, you can craft or buy new wands when their charges run out. Under no circunstances wear armor. Arcane Spell Failure is just too great a harm for a wizard. Ah, do buff up your Concentration skill to cast defensively, so you won´t provoke AoOs from casting. Stay away from the fight. The secret is that your AC is NOT used - that opponents will attack the other party members instead of you. Did you know you can cast Invisibility, then the Summon Monster spells, and REMAIN invisible? That´s free flanking for the party´s rogue. If you´re looking for defense, remember that a 5th-level wizard can get Invisibilty and Fly. Together they are really great (just don´t fly too high; if you fall the d6s will kill you).
Sceadeau 12-27-05, 03:44 PM	From Alter Self in the SRD: You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, and so on), racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth). A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal. So, yes it does. And it's insane.
Puca 12-27-05, 04:08 PM	A mithral buckler has no ASF and no armor check penalty. The Mage Armor spell will last five hours at her level, and thats plenty to make it through most days encounters. A single back-up scroll will fill the rest if needed. One first-level spell isnt going to kill her. If she is dead-set on wearing armor (maybe its a concept thing) she can dip into a level of fighter and (I believe) at her next level (6) take a level of Spell Sword from CW. That first level gives casting and you can ignore 10% ASF, which is exactly that of a mithral chain shirt.
Jherid 12-27-05, 04:36 PM	You could put the Twilight (BoED, +1) enhancement in a mithral chain shirt for ASF 0%. Edit: Almost forgot, there's also Thistledown Padded Armor (WotW) that has ASF 0%, it only gives +1 AC but it's still armor. My wizard wears a suit just to put special abilities in it.
Ertai Planeswalker 12-27-05, 06:14 PM	Blended quartz is a material. So is mithral. A chain shirt is either made of blended quartz or mithral, but not both. Personally, i think a blended quartz chain shirt with blended quartz dastana is the way to go along with the Troglodyte form. when you use the shield spell, you'll have an AC of 25. (+6 Natural. +5 Armor, +4 Shield) If the DM does not allow the Troglodyte form, then maybe you can research an arcane version of shield of faith and/or barkskin for 1000 and 2000 gp respectively.
Vangerdahast 12-27-05, 10:30 PM	Sceadeau, I´m sorry, I looked in my 3e PHB and it specifically says no natural armor. So I guess they changed that for 3.5.
Kimokeo 12-27-05, 11:04 PM	As a wizard player, I like spending lots of money on spells and filling up my spellbooks. Wands and such are great, but when you use them up, then what? If your DM replaces your money quickly, you can afford wands. If you can't afford to make wands later you're going to have to change your plans. This is all DM control- money, place, and time. As a Wizard, I like specialist to add that extra spell per level. IMO, Your spells are for you, the wizard. Unless you are beefing someone else specifically for something you are going to meet, the spells are for your own survival and tactics. Spend your money on buying spells you are going to use, and I mean really going to use. If you have played enough to know that you'll be sleeping and replentishing spells, then you can gather the right assortment of spells for everyday use. A high armor class is worthless if the opponents can't get to you. Prot from arrows is great where no melee is coming your way. Invisibility and Fly are great escapes but for me, these are last resorts spells. I don't use them in combat, they are for my safety or to save the day. I agree with items to give you some AC that is permanently 'on'. Metamagic feats and Magic Missile. If you have a feat costing you one level and another costing you two levels, you can take MM for all your slots. All automatic hits. Empower/Enlarge. I like Empowered Shocking Grasp that your familiar delivers. At 5th level - nice shock. Give your flying familiar prot from arrows. If you can't hit things with your rays, stick to MM.
High Octane 12-28-05, 04:37 AM	Screw AC, get miss chance via blur. Add on mage armor and shield, easy first level spells. Add on an item adding dex, an amulet of natural armor, and you have 20 AC without any natural Dex bonus.
Zuckerart 12-28-05, 08:37 AM	I'm gonna vote for the following: Mithral Buckler +1. ~2,165 gp Ring of Protection +1. 2,000 gp Lesser Rod of Extend. 3,000 gp Pearl of Power 1st. 1,000 gp For a total of 8,165 gp. Use the rod to extend Armor spell so it lasts 10 hours. If needed call back the spell with the pearl and recast for another 10 hours. You still have one use of the rod to extend another spell. AC bonus will be +7 (and a +1 to saves). An AC of 17+ is decent enough if you aren't planning to use a lot of touch attacks. That buckler can be magically improved (if DM allows) if you gain more cash later on. The pearl and rod will remain usefull for a long time in a mages career. The mithral buckler, pearl of power and rod of extend must be my favorite spellcaster items, they make your life soo much easier. Most recently I used two pearls and the rod to Endure Elements a six-man party while traveling through the desert at the expense of learning one spell every day. The DM was kind of disappointed when he couldn't whip out his heatstroke rules :)
Gworraent 12-28-05, 11:18 AM	mithral buckler only if it doesnt have ASF. remember, many mage-armor-esque spells don't stack with each other and none of them stack with armor that you are wearing. Spend money on bracers of protection, then keep the rest for spellbook, scrolls, potions and the almight wand ( well actually staff, but that's uber expernsive)
Puca 12-28-05, 12:08 PM	mithral buckler only if it doesnt have ASF.It doesnt have any. You are right though: the +1 shield bonus from this will not stack with the shield bonus from a Shield spell, which is far better. But the spell lasts only 1 min. per level, which is not very long at her level, and if she is worried about slots, this is a realtively cheap way to go. Plus, it can be enhanced further as time and resources allow. At her level, she not going to be able to get much better than the +4 armor bonus from Mage Armor except for the suggestions that Jherid made, with neither of which I am familiar. Id suggest: Mithral Buckler: 1015 Ring of Deflection +1: 2000 Mage Armor (supported with scrolls): varies Gloves of Dexterity +2: 4000 You spend 7,015 gp and have a 17 AC (+ your previous dex.) The gloves ar more expensive than an iten like an amulet of natural armor would be, but that +1 also goes to your ranged attacks and your reflex saves, so I think it is worth it. Even a dozen scrolls of Mage Armor as back up will only add 150 gp to your cost. She can suck that up for now until bracers are more affordable.
Xabre 12-28-05, 12:16 PM	Everyone, thanks for the help. I don't have BoED in front of me, sadly, and I'm too lazy to go to my car... but if Twilight is a decent enchantment that lowers ASF, then that might be a way to go also. My guess is it's something that lowers ASF by 10 or so.
mvincent 12-28-05, 01:53 PM	My preferences: 1) Mage armor 2) Alter-self (Trog.) 3) Amulet of natural armor (or barkskin if you have a Druid ally) 4) Ring of protection 5) +2 small mithral shield with a masterwork shield spike (later you can make it a +1 defending shield spike and cast greater magic weapon on it). 6) Dusty rose Ioun Stone
Malkonnen 12-28-05, 02:38 PM	I'm really surprised no one's mention this yet, but a great way to boost the defense of a caster is to make her small, preferably a halfling. The +1 size bonus to AC really helps, especially since it applies to touch attacks and can't be denied like Dex/dodge bonuses. Plus you also get the +1 size bonus to hit, making your touch attacks or rare occasions where you might need to resort to using a dagger or staff a little less painful. Then, as a halfling you also get +2 Dex which is another +1 AC, and +1 to hit w/ ranged attacks; and the always useful +1 racial bonus to all saves (a commonly overlooked weakness of the wizard is generally mediocre at best saves); plus plenty of skill bonus gravy on top of all that. All for the bargain basement price of -2 Str (generally no prob for a wiz, just be careful not to go too low), and a 20 ft base move, which is easily offset by a riding dog mount or the phantom steed or fly spells. In fact having a mount and spending a few crossclass ranks in ride can really help out a caster. By letting the mount move for you, you gain a LOT of mobility, and in an emergency with a simple DC 15 ride check you can gain an extra +4 AC from cover. So what I would recommend is: +1 size (Halfling) +3 Dex (a 16 dex after racial mod shouldn't be a prob) +4 Armor (mage armor spell, plus scrolls if necessary) +4 Shield (shield spell, plus scrolls if necessary) 20% miss chance (blur spell or you could upgrade to displacement) +1 natural (Amulet of Nat Armor) 2000gp +1 deflection (ring of prot) 2000gp (+4 cover from DC 15 ride check) (+6 natural, -1 size from Alter Self spell into Troglodyte) that's a 24 AC with a 20% miss chance, with potential to boost it to 28 w/ cover or 29 w/ alter self, or 33 w/ both (IMHO plenty for a 5th level wizard); all with $5k yet to spend. Personally I'd highly recommend a Headband of Intellect +2 for the +1 DC to all your spells and the additional bonus spell(s). Since as a wizard the bonus spells(s) boost your limited spells per day, and the +1 DC will help you get the best bang for your buck out of the spells you do have. The leftover 1000gp should give you a healthy repertoire of scrolls, maybe a wand or two, and some spending cash. Hope that helps, Malk
Jherid 12-28-05, 03:23 PM	My guess is it's something that lowers ASF by 10. Spot on.