Post/Author/DateTime	Post
glimeral 12-08-04, 09:44 PM	I am wondering what the best overall reach weapon is.... From my research I think the Duom, chain lash and spiked chain come out on top but im not certain if there are any others that i am missing. In addition, does a chain lash/spiked chain being used as a reach weapon threaten all targets within 5 and 10 feet. I am wondering for purposes of AoO and whirlwind (because that would make the chain lash, spiked chain AND duom the best weapons for the whirlwind feat that i have found to date). Edit: I forgot to mention, I want a character who can threaten all targets who are within 5 and 10 foot range of my character simultaneously. All 3 of the weapons I mentioned are capable of doing this (the duom being from Sword and Fist incidentilly). I am working on a reach whirlwind build and was wanting to potentially find a better weapon than i currently have come up with.
ClementWillowbreaker 12-08-04, 09:49 PM	To quote someone on this forum, "The Spiked Chain- don't even think about it. It was only included in order to see which DMs had the balls to ban core material from their games, and use that information to breed a better generation of roleplayers." As for a real reach weapon, I love the Heavy Poleaxe from the CW. Two damage types, damage of a greatsword, axe's crit, charge receiving...nice.
Thanatos02 12-09-04, 01:10 AM	I like the Whip Dagger, from Sword and Fist (3.0) quite a lot. 15 ft, d8, Mighty Versions available, +2 to trip and disarm. Not bad at all, IMHO. Best of all? Subject to ranged feats - Point Blank Shot and up were all cool. My character was an ace at sneaking in lots of extra d6's in a very Precise manner. :)
celloshane 12-09-04, 01:21 AM	The Sugliin from Frostburn is pretty cool. High damage, and by the time it's hampering limitations really affect you, you can take the Mastery feat and forget about it.
glimeral 12-09-04, 01:26 AM	A whip dagger is not a reach weapon it is a ranged weapon. Therefore you do not threaten any squares with the weapon (as far as making attacks of opportunity go) unless you get the ranged opportunity feat (forget its exact name). In addition, unless you take 1 level in Lasher, you provoke attacks of opportunity when using it.
Shadow Weaver 12-09-04, 05:34 AM	I like the chain that can be used as either a 15' reach weapon or a 5' double weapon. It also gets the usual bonus to trip and disarm. Always seemed very versatile to me.
Nyferto 12-09-04, 06:45 AM	In 3.5 the whip is a reach weapon, and its reasonable that the Dagger whip would follow the same changes when updated.
Ipsissimus 12-09-04, 09:34 AM	I'd go for the guisarme, reach weapon, decent damage, bonus to trip, and it's a martial weapon. Exotic weapons are usually superior to most other weapons since you usually need to take a feat to use it without penalty. though my personal favorite, is the lucerene hammer. Pure style and of course when you crit on it 4x isn't bad either.
D1Tremere 12-09-04, 11:52 AM	I like the spiked chain. It may be a bit powerful, but it is exotic, and if I spend a feat to use a weapon I want a bit more then "I can use this two handed weapon in one hand". But that's just me.
glimeral 12-09-04, 02:09 PM	In 3.5 the whip is a reach weapon, and its reasonable that the Dagger whip would follow the same changes when updated. Whip: -The whip is treated as a melee weapon with a 15 foot reach, though you dont threaten the area into which you can make an attack.... -Using a whip provokes an attack of opportunity, just as if you had used a ranged weapon.... Straight out of the 3.5 SRD there. Its not a reach weapon. It has a 15 foot reach. There is a difference. Reach weapons threaten targets within their reach. A whip doesnt. Sure, you can STRIKE opponents 15 feet away, but you can do that with a thrown or ranged weapon just as easily. You dont threaten targets with a ranged weapon though (unless you have a PrC which allows you to) and you cant make Attacks of opportunity with them either. Same goes for the whip and its cousins
glimeral 12-09-04, 02:20 PM	I'd go for the guisarme, reach weapon, decent damage, bonus to trip, and it's a martial weapon. Exotic weapons are usually superior to most other weapons since you usually need to take a feat to use it without penalty. though my personal favorite, is the lucerene hammer. Pure style and of course when you crit on it 4x isn't bad either. I think I might go for the duom after all.. Looking through my books again I skimmed through the Exotic Weapon Master (a class i rarely even pay attention to) to see if there was anything I could use it for and sure enough there was... Take 1 level of EWM to gain the "Trip" feature for my duom.... Nice.
Bane 12-10-04, 01:07 AM	Whip: -The whip is treated as a melee weapon with a 15 foot reach, though you dont threaten the area into which you can make an attack.... -Using a whip provokes an attack of opportunity, just as if you had used a ranged weapon.... Therefore making it ineligible for Point Blank Shot and other ranged weapon feats.
Stuntman 12-10-04, 01:41 AM	Right now, I'm thinking of taking XWP: Spiked Chain when I get my next feat. The fact that you can threaten opponents adjacent and 10' away is really appealing to me.
PhaedrusXY 12-10-04, 01:46 AM	Right now, I'm thinking of taking XWP: Spiked Chain when I get my next feat. The fact that you can threaten opponents adjacent and 10' away is really appealing to me.You can do that with any polearm and a set of armor spikes without wasting a feat on it. I like the guisarme.
bitnine 12-10-04, 02:17 AM	If you plan to get enlarged in order to take greater advantage of your ability to threaten a wide area, the spiked chain does have a certain attractiveness. While most reach weapons threaten out at 15 and 20 feet while you are enlarged, they have a larger hole where they don't threaten at 5 or 10. Whereas the spiked chain gives you more than just that doughnut at the price of a feat.You can do that with any polearm and a set of armor spikes without wasting a feat on it. I like the guisarme.This is very true. Armor spikes are an often overlooked method of keeping a close attack option while wielding a reach weapon. The investment of a feat to wield the spiked chain is usually best suited for when you are putting other feats into using it as well, such as weapon focus or improved critical, since there's only one weapon to focus on instead of two.
psionichamster 12-10-04, 02:29 AM	of course there's always a monk or fighter with IUS and a reach weapon... guisarm in hand, drop if you get tripped, double move (monk=better than you) whip off the chain/whip you've been wearing around you...right back in the fray. and does your weapon enlarge with you when you do...i seem to think thrown weapons change back to regular size (example had to do with a javelin, IIRC) so that would lend to the thought your melee weapons would get bigger... oh well, but yeah, ranged trips followed with armor spikes (or bladed/spiked/regular gauntlets <slash/pierce/bludg.>) in close or IUS in close is nasty. esp. when you can flurry or stunning fist the prone guy... the hamster
bitnine 12-10-04, 02:32 AM	and does your weapon enlarge with you when you do...i seem to think thrown weapons change back to regular size (example had to do with a javelin, IIRC) so that would lend to the thought your melee weapons would get bigger...All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell. Melee and projectile weapons affected by this spell deal more damage.··
glimeral 12-10-04, 02:32 AM	You can do that with any polearm and a set of armor spikes without wasting a feat on it. I like the guisarme. Sorry to burst your bubble, you dont threaten with armor spikes, they have a reach of 0 as it can only be used in a grapple and maybe a bullrush? Dont quote me on the bullrush though. You can ATTACK with them just like you can attack with a whip but i believe you provoke an attack of opportunity with them (unless you are in a grapple in which case you dont). In both cases you dont threaten. You threaten with your unarmed strike though but you need to hold the polearm in one hand (a free action, so it must be taken on your turn) and thus making it so you dont threaten 10 feet away with it during the same round.... Read the article on the website regarding attacks of opportunity (part 2 i think) it talks about this very thing.
PhaedrusXY 12-10-04, 02:35 AM	Sorry to burst your bubble, you dont threaten with armor spikes, they have a reach of 0 as it can only be used in a grapple and maybe a bullrush? There is nothing in the description of Armor Spikes that says they don't threaten in the SRD. As a matter of fact, it says you can use them to make a regular melee attack.You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case.Edit: I just read through the article on Attacks of Opportunity, and I have to say that I see nothing remotely like what you're saying. As a matter of fact, there is a section devoted exactly to using this kind of tactic, and it specifically mentions Armor Spikes, but says nothing about them not being useable for this. Adjacent Squares and Reach Weapons: There are some tricks you can use to threaten those adjacent squares when you're using a reach weapon. If you're a monk, your unarmed attacks continue to threaten the squares adjacent to you. Even if you're not a monk, you can use a smaller weapon to threaten the adjacent squares. You'll have to hold the reach weapon in one hand and wield the smaller weapon in the other hand. Since most reach weapons are two-handed weapons, you're only holding onto the reach weapon, not wielding it, and you don't threaten an area with it. Although the rules don't mention it, letting go of a two-handed weapon with one hand or putting a free hand back on the weapon is a free action for you. Drawing the smaller weapon requires an action, but if you have the Quick Draw feat, it's a free action. Note that you can take a free action only during your turn. If you want to use this trick, you must draw the smaller weapon while it's still your turn. When you do so, you don't threaten any area with your larger weapon until you wield it in two hands again. To resume using the bigger weapon on your turn, you'll have to drop the smaller weapon (a free action) to free up your hand for the bigger weapon. Weapons such as the spiked gauntlet or armor spikes are ready for use whenever you have a free hand, and you don't need to drop them to use your hand for something else. It says they're ready "when you have a free hand", so I guess technically you could say you have to take one hand off your polearm to do that. But Armor Spikes aren't usually limited to just the guantlets. You could put them on your feet as well. And if the DM still doesn't like that and says it's illegal, just use a freakin Blade Boot.
glimeral 12-10-04, 02:46 AM	If you want to use this trick, you must draw the smaller weapon while it's still your turn. When you do so, you don't threaten any area with your larger weapon until you wield it in two hands again. To resume using the bigger weapon on your turn, you'll have to drop the smaller weapon (a free action) to free up your hand for the bigger weapon. In other words, on someone elses turn you either threaten with the smaller weapon, or the bigger weapon but not both.. Thats what i was getting at. And armor spikes ARE mentioned somewhere in the rules as being reach 0 given that you have to enter someones square to use them. Possibly in 3.0 since i dont see much mention of reach 0 weapons any more. You cant move when making an attack of opportunity and it sounds ludicris for a fighter to reach 5 feet away with armor spikes which are no more than a couple inches without himself moving, unless you factor the spikes on his arms, in which case he is holding the reach weapon so he would have had to had a free hand. You are right about the monk though. He could headbutt them, or kick them etc. I was referring to straight warriors though. Personally its a simple fix. Use a spiked chain (it is a reach weapon that also threatens 5 feet) a chain lash (same thing but bludgeoning) or a duom. Take 1 level in exotic weapon master to gain trip with the duom. Simple.
PhaedrusXY 12-10-04, 02:48 AM	In other words, on someone elses turn you either threaten with the smaller weapon, or the bigger weapon but not both.. This only applies to weapons you need a hand to wield. Read the entire section I quoted. It specifically says monks can threaten both with their unarmed attack and with a reach weapon at the same time.
ClementWillowbreaker 12-10-04, 10:41 AM	And so can anyone willing to take the TWFing penalties on the polearm and armor spikes. You never have to take that attack with the spikes- just take the penalty and you weild them, mostly for threatening. Or if you like the style, close and knee the enemy in the chest after dressing his limbs off with your glaive.
glimeral 12-10-04, 12:04 PM	There is a difference between threatening with a weapon and attacking with a weapon. Armorspikes, whips etc are weapons you can attack with only during your turn. You cannot make an attack of opportunity with these weapons if someone provokes them. Dont get me wrong, armorspikes are a must for grapples if you arent a monk. So is a backup light weapon. And yes you can take the TWF penalties when using armorspikes and a polearm, but only if you attack someone within 10 feet (polearm) and someone within 5 feet (armorspikes). Doesnt help you on someone elses turn though. You can only make attacks of opportunity against targets you threaten. Armorspikes dont threaten anyone as to use them it effectively means you attempt to impale them on your armor by running at them or grappling them and you cant move on someone elses turn (unless you have sidestep but even this doesnt qualify). On a side note since we are talking about armorspikes.... can you have armorspikes and armor razors on the same suit of armor, dealing both piercing and slashing damage?????